Film: Capitalism: A Love Story

[Prodigycan]

It's a style of communicating which you simply do not agree with. There is reason for his decisions, and i don't have the time to explain every single cut and shot, but to others many are generally a slightly humourous twist on emphasis.



Actually, he covers this hypocrisy in his interviews in the excellent doco "the corporation".




These are cliche and unsubstantiated moore hate bandwagoning sentiments.



Shooting the messenger much? No one claims the sun shines out his arse, but the contempt showed to him, based solely on a disapproval of his character/style, are unreasonable.



Knowing the problem is half the battle won. If he raised some valid criticisms (which he does IMO), even with a lack of solution, this is still a good thing. See beyond the humour he presents his serious topics with, which most criticism seem to have an aversion to, and then you might see some value in his works.

btw: if your supercliche "take a shit on the flag" comment doesn't scream blind defense of nationalism, i don't know what does.

Very well said, you taught him well!

 

[Prodigycan]

Another one?

The fact that Moore gets absolutely destroyed in basically any television debate (heck, even I admit that O'Reilly destroyed him) he gets into just makes him seem like a propaganda puppet who dosen't really know all that much about his topics. His documentaries seem largely geared toward affecting people emotionally, and this typically is effective in our society. But ya, pretty much every film he's made has twisted facts, been trumped by counter-films/literature, etc. Not trying to sound like an elitest or anything, but I'd much rather watch CNBC, read the WSJ, etc. and come to my own conclusions than let some fat man with a baseball cap try to make me "feel bad for people."

can u please post one of those debates, i have yet to see that. O'Reilly has yet to win a debate in his career i don't know what ur talking about. please post some of the debates you are referring to so that the BL community can tell u who won.

 

[TheDeceased]

He is unselfish in his approach and as objective and intellectual as it gets.

Keep smoking that crack.

 

[Prodigycan]

Keep smoking that crack.

I will bro as long as it makes u speechless "patriot" lol

 

[Prodigycan]

Another one?

The fact that Moore gets absolutely destroyed in basically any television debate (heck, even I admit that O'Reilly destroyed him) he gets into just makes him seem like a propaganda puppet who dosen't really know all that much about his topics. His documentaries seem largely geared toward affecting people emotionally, and this typically is effective in our society. But ya, pretty much every film he's made has twisted facts, been trumped by counter-films/literature, etc. Not trying to sound like an elitest or anything, but I'd much rather watch CNBC, read the WSJ, etc. and come to my own conclusions than let some fat man with a baseball cap try to make me "feel bad for people."

we are still waiting for those interviews in which moore gets destroyed. do they exist?

 

[vegan]

Does he offer any explanation as to how capitalism has affected him personally?

Because it seems like he's done pretty well within the country/economic system that he seems to despise with such a passion.

he talks about that in "the corporation"

pretty much saying about the people who finance him "you're stone-hearted opportunists and i tell it out loud but you still fund my documentaries because there's money to be made and you have no ethics"

No they aren't. It has been proven that he has lied/ misrepresented the truth numerous times throughout his career. He is a liar, like it or not.

can you give a few examples please
not that i don't believe you, but only that i always hear people complaining about him without actually giving arguments

now i'd like to know if he's actually a liar or if all of his critics are on the "hate him" bandwagon
(ps : denying this trend was not really tactful. even though you may have personal reasons to critisize him, you can't deny that most people just do it to give the impression that they have opinions)

 

[L2R]

^i like the metaphor he uses in the corporation (which is a doco far superior to any of moore's work) about the salesman who would sell you the noose to hang him with for a profit. that shortsightedness is so bloody true.

 

[TheDeceased]

Does he offer any explanation as to how capitalism has affected him personally?

Because it seems like he's done pretty well within the country/economic system that he seems to despise with such a passion.

he talks about that in "the corporation"

pretty much saying about the people who finance him "you're stone-hearted opportunists and i tell it out loud but you still fund my documentaries because there's money to be made and you have no ethics"

I'm not talking about his investors, I'm talking about the enormous amount of money ending up in his pocket.

 

[vegan]

^^ he makes documentaries against wild capitalism with it

 

[Arnold]

can you give a few examples please
not that i don't believe you, but only that i always hear people complaining about him without actually giving arguments

Irony comparing one shitty documentary to another but it will show you how he edits what people say to suit him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYvWJrg5T0A&feature=related

Sicko=>trawl this site a bit and you might realize Cuba's healthcare ain't as brilliant as he makes it out to be, or use google to find other info that it ain't as rosey .

Bowling for Columbine, NRA speech completely glued together bullshit.

There's more.

 

[jackie jones]

I dig some of Moore's documentaries, but there are too many pigs compressed into a 2-hour film, which makes me angry and sick to my stomach. He is preaching to the converted anyway, but I think he has good intentions.

He would be a better protest organizer. Films tend to not evoke a sense of motivation in most people.

 

[TheDeceased]

u got destroyed in this thread

No, I didn't.

It does't matter whether it made him rich or not. He is unselfish in his approach and as objective and intellectual as it gets. You wanna hear Donald Trump talk about capitalism? You wanna hear the 2% of the rich population in america give their opinion on capitalism? or do u wanna hear the majority 98% poor population express their opinions on capitalism. Michael Moore speaks for those 98% poor, and represents them in a great unselfish manner.

The fact that you think Moore is "as objective and intellectual as it gets" in his approach to documentary film making, instantly destroys the credibility of any future statements. You are either extremely naive and have the exact sort of malleable personality that MM preys upon, or you are a crack addict, which is why I said to keep smoking.

Don't go around forums telling people that they got 'served' or whatever your drug addled little brain replicated from the television. Not only is it a waste of your time, but you're not contributing anything to the discussion. You're just this little guy hiding in a crowd of people who actually have something to say and occasionally jumping in to say "Ha, take that!"

Take what?

he makes documentaries against wild capitalism with it

So now he's self-funding all of his films. That sort of contradicts what he said about his investors in 'The Corporation' doesn't it?

Besides which we're talking about low-budget, high box office films.
Bowling cost 4,000,000 and it made 58,000,000 at the box office
911 cost 6,000,000 and made 120,000,000

Despite being worth over 50 million and being able to afford it, Moore doesn't invest his own money. He keeps that in his pocket like the rest of the filthy rich capitalist world.

 

[L2R]

TD, you might have missed the part where i mentioned that mm actually encouraged pirating of his docos. Like i said earlier, yes he makes a lot from his films, but his info doesn't necessarily come at a price.

Irony comparing one shitty documentary to another but it will show you how he edits what people say to suit him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYvWJrg5T0A&feature=related

Sicko=>trawl this site a bit and you might realize Cuba's healthcare ain't as brilliant as he makes it out to be, or use google to find other info that it ain't as rosey .

Bowling for Columbine, NRA speech completely glued together bullshit.

There's more.

LOL, nice "evidence". I think you've been reading too many of capstone's posts if you think anyone is going to take those links seriously.

 

[TheDeceased]

No I didn't miss that. It's completely irrelevant.
We're talking about films that profit 10-20 times their budget.

Besides which the major issue for me isn't whether or not Moore is anti-piracy.

If he really cared as much as his on screen persona does about the issues, then he would donate the profits of his films to charities that directly relate to the subject matter of his documentaries, right?

He makes his living by pretending to be a savior or something, some kind of bizarre contemporary knight wielding a microphone instead of a sword and battling C.E.O.s instead of dragons. But this is all just bullshit. He's not battling anyone. He's just taking advantage of the easily persuaded.

There have been a large number of scenes (I've lost count) in his TV shows and films in which he has failed to get an interview with some big, corrupt guy, way up there on the food chain.

Well, I could take the same approach very easily - try and fail to get an interview with Moore. With the tables turned, he wouldn't sit down for an interview with me. And what does that mean exactly?

Absolutely nothing.

 

[Arnold]

LOL, nice "evidence". I think you've been reading too many of capstone's posts if you think anyone is going to take those links seriously.

It's so cool in Cuba people even hold competitions who can get the quickest and in the most fashionable way to Miami.

It would be nice if you watched Fahrenshyte 9/11 then watched Fahrenhype 9/11 and fast forwarded till you saw people that appeared in the first one before commenting .
He's clever in manipulating people and editing his home movies with a leftist propaganda, it stops there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwQ41Yo60og Michael Moore doesn't really understand the concept of capitalism does he.

 

[Prodigycan]

No, I didn't.

You got rocked in this thread, u and I both know it. the threads been done with a long time ago now ur just coming back with some foolishness in a desperate failed attempt to regain much lost pride, i know ur psychology. You got rocked, everyone on this thread witnessed it, check the first page to confirm it, that dude had u rocked.

Ive been through many thread in my life but this one sticks out cuz of they way u got rocked.

 

[TheDeceased]

I have no idea what you're talking about but looking back at the first page, I guess you must be referring to Impacto, who is a friend of mine and often discusses films with me on BL.

If you'd like to think he 'owned me' or 'destroyed me' that's up to you. But it's just a matter of perspective. And frankly, I don't care what you think. Nor does he I would wager.

You're not contributing anything to this thread. Your last four of five comments haven't been about the film at all.

Some of you will deny that Moore is a liar because you like him.

^I couldn't be bothered trying to prove that he has lied in the past. It's utterly ridiculous to suggest that he hasn't. It's common knowledge. He twists the truth through the use of juxtaposition, selective editing, trick photography, etc.

I used to study Statistics at Uni (don't ask me why, I was following in my fathers footsteps for a while there) and Moore came up recurringly from the lecturer as an example of someone who intentionally manipulates statistical information. The numbers that appeared in big font on BfColumbine are the most obvious example. But practically everything (to varying degrees) that comes out of his films are either inaccurate or misleading.

Moore is generally regarded to be an intellectual for the lowest common denominator.

He's not a very well respected film maker.

It's not just me.

Hell, half of the people who voted on this thread didn't like the film.




Rather than just saying "You got destroyed" again and embarrassing yourself further, why not join the discussion and 'destroy' me properly?

 

[marsmellow]

Does he offer any explanation as to how capitalism has affected him personally?

Because it seems like he's done pretty well within the country/economic system that he seems to despise with such a passion.

I understood his stance against gun control in Columbine (even though his greatest achievement in the film was outwitting an old, senile man) and to some extent his heavily exaggerated critique of the US Health Care system.

But now it's just getting ridiculous.

As far as I'm concerned he might as well just film himself taking a shit on the American flag. He probably will eventually.

He looks like a commoner and this is where a lot of his appeal lies. The baseball cap, the clothes, the unkempt hair, etc. He doesn't walk around flaunting his millionaire status, he just hides in his "Hey I'm just a regular guy from Flint, Michigan" disguise and points the finger at other more obvious targets.

Maybe the second half of the film is more redeeming than the first. But, I couldn't be bothered finding out. He's not offering any solutions. He's just criticizing what is arguably one of the better places on the globe to live. No country is perfect and repeatedly pointing out your nations flaws while offering practically nothing constructive whatsoever isn't exactly productive.

Actually, it is productive, because you have to know what the flaws are before you can fix them. Believe it or not, America does have plenty of problems. Just because you don't experience them, that doesn't mean they don't exist or that they aren't worth looking at and fixing. A big flaw that America has, is that it has allowed these banks and corporations (and capitalism in general) to run free and basically rape and pillage the wealth of the country. Michael Moore is just highlighting that fact. Why do you have such a problem with that?

SO WHAT if he is a millionaire? So what if he's done well in this system? That changes nothing and it's basically irrelevant. His message is still true, even if it is coming from a hypocrite. And the fact that you are focusing on Moore instead of criticizing the content of the movie is very revealing. It says that you are not mentally capable of arguing with the message of the movie, so you are attacking the messenger instead. Basically, you are saying he's right.

By the way, Michael Moore didn't make his money by screwing people over, and that is why he's actually not a hypocrite for making this, and that is the difference between him and the bankers he is criticizing.

Besides, there is no one who can make this movie who isn't rich. It's not like people who are having their houses foreclosed on can pay a camera crew. Micheal Moore is just speaking up for the people who have no power to speak up for themselves.

And this might be surprising to some people, especially to extremist right wing capitalists, but some people actually have ethics and morals, and do not only care about their own self-interest. So, they will occasionally criticize something that they personally benefited from, and it is not a crime to do this.

Imagine that I worked for Nazi Germany, I wasn't involved with any of the holocaust, but I was a very high ranking official in the government, and I had done very well under Nazism. But then I found out about the concentration camps, and left the country and started to publicly criticize Hitler. I bet you wouldn't do the same thing as you are doing now, saying that I shouldn't be speaking out against it, would you? You would say I was right to do it, even if I did do well under the Third Reich.

(Just to be clear, I am NOT comparing America to Nazi Germany, just using it as an example to show why it's silly to say people can't criticize something they benefit from.)

 

[TheDeceased]

nice response marsmellow, good to see someone actually attempting to discuss the film rather than saying over and over again 'you got rocked'. you brought up some good points. will respond when i have some more time.

Prodigycan, if you'd like to continue telling me how much you think I have been rocked then please do it via PM.

As I've already said you aren't discussing the film at all. You criticize me for talking about Moore rather than the flick specifically but you aren't even talking about anything that relates to the discussion whatsoever.

If this is your favorite thread of the year, that's pretty fucking sad man.

 

[L2R]

thanks mars. you wrote what i haven't had time to.

arnold, there's more to cubans going to the states than just healthcare. moore's film "sicko" in ONLY comparing health care systems.
Nice youtube link too. It kinda made me like moore just a little bit more.

thedeceased. Moore is far from a great documentary maker. His stuff is more docutainment than anything else. Others, such as the corporation or even the inconvenient truth (and countless others) are far superior, content wise. I don't expect a moore film to be like them, they are moore films. And i have yet to see any factual errors pointed out in any of the moore threads' "he's a fuckin lier" hater posts which inevitably pop up. The only conclusion that I can make is that people don't like him either stylistically or politically.