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fenugreek, testosterone booster ?

atara said:
Sorry I got diverted, but I do think that when discussing muscle growth as a goal of nutritional supplements, whether it's via testosterone or anything else, dietary protein is pretty hard to ignore.

A more realistic supplement for testosterone is vitamin D:

Thieme E-Journals - Hormone and Metabolic Research / Full Text

Thieme E-Books & E-Journals
www.thieme-connect.com www.thieme-connect.com

You can get it from mushrooms that have been exposed to UV light including sunlight, which is an interesting alternative to taking pills:

However, I haven't yet found a practical way to irradiate my mushrooms.
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youll buy mushrooms and irradiate em then consume them for the vitamin d? why not just buy super cheap small tiny caps of vitamin d instead? besides mushrooms have the d2 version
 
I have been on methadone for over 20 years, I did end up with test levels on the low end of normal and I was prescribed testosterone replacement for it.

I also have used a fair amount of steroids over the years, injectables mainly as the effects of orals on the liver is something I wanted to avoid considering the strain I already placed on my liver over the years of rec drug use.

After considerable research along with a lot of trial and error I worked out a method to raise my testosterone levels naturally and it worked , now my levels are pretty good and this is after about 3 years of testosterone replacement therapy which I am no longer on and as I have already mentioned over 20 years of methadone which I am still on.

Unfortunately there is no short cut or any way it can be done via medication, the answer is in a good diet, doesn't have to be a body building diet but should have decent amounts of protein and also decent amounts of the good fats, this together with regular exercise is what worked for me, the exercise that has had the best effect is resistence training, which again doesn't have to be a hardcore body building workout but it definitely has to be regular, consistency is the key.

I have been able to overcome pretty much all the negetive physical side effects of methadone such as constipation, that sluggish feeling people talk about and low testosterone all through putting some serious effort into eating well and regular physical training.

All the natural test boosters are basically a scam, also I can say from first hand experience and plenty of anecdotal evidence that sarms such as osterine will suppress endogenous testosterone, not as harsh as steroids which will totally shut you down but they will suppress natural test.

It is quite ironic that I came across this discussion when I was asking a question regarding the medication that I have just started and it's effects on the male endocrine system.
 
@vision conquest Thanks, a pretty conclusive answer. Seems like I won't come around exercise - is lifting weights enough or is cardio required? Think I am somewhat happy with my natural state I get w/o opioids and some daily walking but with morph/metha (kratom being a remarkable exception) things go downhill much too fast. Also, oppositing to roids, with opioids T seems to recover amazingly fast upon cessation.

Still interested in whether steroids or SARMs which would directly agonize the receptors independent of T release might do it. Maybe even pretty low doses of an agent could be enough? I see that roids or T is contra productive by suppressing whatever remains of natural production but that's afaik exactly the reason why we have SARMs. Yeah, lazy junkie I am.
 
dopamimetic said:
@vision conquest Thanks, a pretty conclusive answer. Seems like I won't come around exercise - is lifting weights enough or is cardio required? Think I am somewhat happy with my natural state I get w/o opioids and some daily walking but with morph/metha (kratom being a remarkable exception) things go downhill much too fast. Also, oppositing to roids, with opioids T seems to recover amazingly fast upon cessation.

Still interested in whether steroids or SARMs which would directly agonize the receptors independent of T release might do it. Maybe even pretty low doses of an agent could be enough? I see that roids or T is contra productive by suppressing whatever remains of natural production but that's afaik exactly the reason why we have SARMs. Yeah, lazy junkie I am.
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Man I really don't think there is any short cut, if you use testosterone replacement sensibly it can be done safely but it definitely does have risks and I am glad I'm not on it anymore.

Regarding sarms, the only one I've actually used is lgd4033, which to be fair, is known to be one of the most suppressive.

However if you spend a bit of time on any of the body building forums you will find out that even osterine is suppressive if you stay on it for any length of time, that is the thing with sarms there just isn't enough real world experience with them other than trials for short periods of time.

I think it was Dan Duchaine, either him or one of the other steroid gurus who said, basically anything strong enough to build muscle is going to suppress endogenous testosterone production and I think that is pretty much spot on.


Just get active man, lose some fat and build some muscle, if you do that you will almost certainly get at least a small increase in natural test and you would be surprised what even a small increase can do.

Good luck man.
 
Rectify said:
Try zinc gluconate.
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Testosterone And Zinc
Because zinc is present in many foods, the majority of people get enough zinc in their diet to maintain basic health. From a fitness perspective, zinc becomes more important because it seems to play a pivotal role in certain types of protein synthesis. As such, anyone who is trying to achieve maximum fitness should at least consider this supplement.

There is pretty strong evidence for the fact that zinc also affects testosterone production. This study found that zinc supplementation could produce a very large increase in the testosterone levels of various men. If you look at the numbers, you can see that the increase is pretty significant.

Another study on zinc and testosterone may shed light on our earlier findings. This study was conducted on elite-level athletes, and it found that when the athletes exercised to total exhaustion, there was a temporary decrease in testosterone production and thyroid hormone production until recovery was complete. However, it was found that zinc supplementation was able to prevent this temporary T-drop. Not only does zinc help with our T-levels, but it also helps with recovery. Source
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Don't know, I never gave much for either magnesium (which is also mentioned there) as an NMDA antagonist or zinc for, if I remember correctly, ADHD symptoms ... aren't these like vitamins of which we should get enough with our daily diet, and where too less is bad, some is good, and too much can be worse? More so for zinc than magnesium maybe. But sounds to me the effects will likely be minor in less extreme settings as the one described above and certainly not enough to overpower the T suppression by e.g. morphine or sodium valproate.
 
funny after 3 pages and tons of replies someone is like "zinc for testosterone" when i said this many times in the begining of the thread and also in many other threads i have posted regarding testosterone. am i a ghost? nobody really reads or understands me it seems. i have experience with zinc, but also a lot of studies i have read on it and when i say this i know what the fuck im talking about, i really fucking DO!
NOW, i expect in 1 year time someone will reply to this thread again and be like "UHMM whats good for testosterone" completely missing out AGAIN on what the fuck i am saying! jeez christ, people are retards.
this happens to me in general btw. on reddit i have posted so many things in relation to either benefit or harm someone with personal experiences backed by science and people completely ignored them and then years later go back to them and are like UHMM yes of course! hah! people are retarded, its funny :)
 
It's just how online discussion goes from time to time ... it happens to everybody, different people come online at different times and many, me included, are tempted to read only the last few postings, maybe the very first one but not entire threads. RL's even worse because you don't have the evidence when somebody else claims your idea as his or people talk random shit based on what you said, etc, etc. Just don't take it personal :) under the line it's what separates us from AI, the Big Brother, the Matrix (ok, this one has glitches too). Guess I'd trade my brain for a cyber one like from Ghost in the Shell any time though..
 
dopamimetic said:
Don't know, I never gave much for either magnesium (which is also mentioned there) as an NMDA antagonist or zinc for, if I remember correctly, ADHD symptoms ... aren't these like vitamins of which we should get enough with our daily diet, and where too less is bad, some is good, and too much can be worse? More so for zinc than magnesium maybe. But sounds to me the effects will likely be minor in less extreme settings as the one described above and certainly not enough to overpower the T suppression by e.g. morphine or sodium valproate.
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After doing a bit of thinking about sodium valproate and the relationship between gabergics and human growth hormone I did some searching and was able to find quite a bit of interesting information.

Looks like sodium valproate can raise hgh secretion in healthy individuals, as I am on such a low dose I'm staying on it, at least for a while and I'll see what happens, I'm back into almost my full training routine, I'll just have to make sure I keep my H use to once in a blue moon.

Turns out the moon is very blue as I type this in an opioid wonderland...scratches his pleasantly itchy nose...mmmm...definitely.
 
Oh yeh, about the zinc, I have never seen any evidence, be it anecdotal or actual studies to suggest that it will raise testosterone levels unless you are deficient in zinc.

Calcium d-glucarate is kind of interesting, never actually tried it but I've heard it can help the liver get rid of the "bad" estrogen, estradiol, so can create a more favorable hormone profile for anabolism.

Fenugreek....man that is a funky ass word....fen, u, greeeeeek.

Sounds like if you say it right it could raise freeeee test..
 
vision, whats your reason for taking valproate instead of lithium? as far as i know, they are prescribed for the same condition
 
allone said:
vision, whats your reason for taking valproate instead of lithium? as far as i know, they are prescribed for the same condition
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It's simply the one that my doctor put me on after my latest relaps.


I have never been on this type of med before, it was suggestede to me when I was younger but I never went on them.

After this latest little escapade my doctor has suggested it again and this time I've given it a go.
 
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allone said:
ok, and so far, how has it been treating you?
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Well I feel that it is helping me, I feel calmer, I did have a bit of an issue with anger, nothing extreme but definitely an issue, since starting the valproate that seems to have almost gone, so far anyway.


I do feel more stable for sure, I have been getting the best sleep with only mild lethargy during the day.

Maybe it's because I am on such a low dose, but for me, I would compare the feeling to pphenibut, relaxation without real sedation and even a feeling of mental clarity.


All this could just be placebo though, when you take into consideration the fact that I started the medication after a 10 week meth binge and I now have 17 days clean from that, during the last 17 days I have been takeing my methadone as prescribed, the valproate as prescribed and have used heroin twice, so maybe it's just clean living...ha ha, oh and I have started regular exercise again.

All things considered it is really too early to say if I will remain on it, I don't like the fact that I can't, or at least shouldn't drink while takeing it, I am by no means a heavy drinker but I do like to have a few beers with a meal now and then.
 
is it really bad to drink on it? i know my lithium says do not drink and i still do. but i suppose valproate might cause worse interactions!?
 
Rectify said:
Try zinc gluconate.
Click to expand...

Zinc does not boost testosterone. Some studies suggest Zinc supplementation raises T levels to normal levels in people that are Zinc deficient. Just like tyrosine can raises dopamine levels to normal levels in people that suffer from wasting diseases caused by extremely low protein diets, like Kwashiorkor, but tyrosine and phenylalanine have zero effect at raising dopamine levels in normal people because tyrosine hydroxylase is in limited supply, and even if you had more of it, any excess dopamine that has been synthesized gets broken down or converted by MAO-A, MAO-B, COMT and dopamine beta-hydroxylase. So you get nothing out of tyrosine supplements. Likewise, if you have severe Zinc deficiency, supplementing with Zinc will raise your testosterone to normal levels. Zinc is absolute crap. Wait, scratch that. Zinc is an essential mineral in milligram amounts, and complete absence of Zinc will eventually result in death. But as far as boosting testosterone above normal levels, it is absolute crap.

Like I said before, if you want more testosterone, then just shoot the stuff. That is what bodybuilders do. And you have to shoot the stuff because testosterone is not orally bioavailable due to very extensive first by-pass metabolism in the liver. Steroids designed to be taken orally have to be 17-alpha-alkylated by medicinal chemistry. That makes them orally bioavailable, but increases their hepatotoxicity dramatically. Most cases of fulminant liver failure in bodybuilders come from 17-alpha-alkylated steroids like methandrostenolone, oxymetholone and stanozolol.

And if you are going to shoot T, just remember that is is one of the most potent bioactive molecules known to Men, and a lot of it's effects are not desirable as far as health, longevity and mood are concerned. While some guys feel slightly euphoric with T levels somewhat above the normal range of 350-900 nGrams/ml, extremely high levels of T above 3uGram/ml makes one angry, irritable and depressed. Not to mention that testosterone increases LDL cholesterol by increasing cholesterol synthesis in the liver, suppresses T-cell production and proliferation and increases infammation by activating the MtorC-2 pathway. Women live on average 7 years more than men, and a big part of it is lower level of testosterone. Testosterone, paradoxically, also suppresses nerve growth factors in the brain like BDNF and somatostatin-C, and might contribute to early dementia. Testosterone strongly activates several protein kinases in the body with low nanomolar to picomolar affinity, that affects cell survival, replication and proliferation. It strongly switches the body from cellular preservation to cellular replication, and from protein turnover towards nitrogen retention. While those result in dramatic gains in size, strength, bone density and sarcomere hypertrophy, there is a price to pay in health, and it is not a cheap price. Testosterone is one of the most bioative molecules known to Man because it afects so many cellular receptors and protein kinases, and it does it so strongly. Think carefully.
 
pretencius roxford, i have a history of taking high doses of specific type of zinc (not all zinc are the same, dummy) and i checked my T levels and were real high. So, im pretty certain SOME, but not ALL, zinc type of supplements can do the job. there are also studies on this that GOOGLE can help you!
 
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