Fentanyl withdrawal really weird & lasting forever - what's going on?

[StairwayToHeaven]

Hey everyone!
I'm new here but Ive been a quiet reader for a long time. But since I'm in a really shitty situation right now, I think it's time for me to post about my problem and maybe my "exprience" can even be useful info to others. I have a few questions and would appreciate it A LOT if you guys would give any kind of tips or support! (Also English isn't my first language so I'm sorry for any mistakes)


Okay, so I've been addicted to Fentanyl patches for about almost 3 years now - no break, I always had enough doctors to go to fortutnately. One "100µg/h" patch per day, containing 23mg or something, that was my average daily use. Okay so I've continually lost all my sources so now I'm here, no chance on getting any fentanyl and I'm scared to death of the withdrawal and getting/staying clean.
But don't get me wrong, I really WANT to become clean and stay it. But its really hard to go through this alone, especially if you have cheap and easy sources but like I said that has changed by now.

The last Fentanyl I had was probably ~one week ago, on Monday (08.02.16). (today is Tuesday 16.02.16) Then, the LAST FEW DAYS before my detox, I kinda made a mistake and got really high dosed Methadone for 4 days, in the 250-300mg range.
SO, the last METHADONE was on Friday evening (12.02.16), exactly almost 5 days ago.

Also, which is important to mention: I am using Lyrica to help with the w/d, I have 300mg pills and am taking them as needed, in average every 8 hours since day two. Also every now and then I take 150µg clonidine, but it just seems to weaken my cardiovascular system or something because I'm randomly blacking out even though I've eaten enough..



The thing that really bothers me now and makes me wonder whats going on is that I didn't have much of a withdrawal for the past 5 (!!!) days.
Today I kinda had some symptoms but still 6/10 on the w/d pain scale. I had the withdrawy smell/taste, I woke up dripping in sweat ect.. so I was confident that this might finally the peak of this withdrawal but I'm scared it's not...
Well, Ive just read what a hell of a long halflife methadone has, and that it can take up to 5-8 days to get it out of ones system. So I would think that tomorrow (6th day) or somethign will FINALLY be the worst of it. (?)
Also I think my metabolism is already really slow, because once I've been trying to switch to subutex. So I was taking 1mg Subutex after 3 whole days without taking any fentanyl and I still got some precipitated withdrawal!! (no joke, even from 1mg which supposedly doesnt even cover most receptors (???)) It wasnt too bad, I think it would have been much worse, would I have taken the whole 8mg at once but I was too scared of it..fortunately I did only the one mg.. But it was still REALLY shitty..


So, Im trying to make those last few days I've been through better visible:
[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]day[/TD]
[TD]medication[/TD]
[TD]pain on w/d scale[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sat:[/TD]
[TD]^Fentanyl 23mg/day, all the time before[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sun:[/TD]
[TD]Fentanyl[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mon:[/TD]
[TD]methadone 300mg[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tue:[/TD]
[TD]methadone 300mg[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wed:[/TD]
[TD]nothing[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Thu:[/TD]
[TD]methadone 300mg[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Fri:[/TD]
[TD]nothing[/TD]
[TD]0/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sat:[/TD]
[TD]nothing[/TD]
[TD]1/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sun:[/TD]
[TD]nothing[/TD]
[TD]2/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mon:[/TD]
[TD]nothing[/TD]
[TD]3/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tues:[/TD]
[TD]nothing[/TD]
[TD]6/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I hope this makes sense to you guys...
Ok so my questions are now:


- Is this - the 5th day - finally gonna be the worst day?

- When is this gonna be over? Will I have to expect something horrible for the next few days? Because I don't think anyone can just abuse such a potent opioid for 3 years and get away with it.. without any pain... But I've already been having a hard time enduring these last few days, even if I felt just a little off.. UGH I dont know how to motivate myself for another, even shittier 3-6 days or so..

Like I said, it's not even THAT bad, it is absolutely bearable (maybe due to the lyrica?) but I still can't do much and I kinda need to know how long this detox is gonna last because my dad needs my help ect. ect..?

- Am I withdrawing from Fentanyl now or from Methadone? Because from what I've read about methadone withdrawals, they seem to be the worst, but I don't think that 4 days have too much of an impact(?).

- Also, could going to a sauna and/or drinking much water and some draining tea or sth. help with getting the methadone/fentanyl out of my system quicker?



THANK YOU FOR READING, I'm really thankful for any tips and advice!
Cheers,
StH

 

[neversickanymore]

Welcome to BL

Hang in there your doing great!!

I guess im just going to come out and tell you my take. When we are detoxing opiates we need remove all the opiates from our system and then give the brain and body time to adjust back. By taking the methadone you have given yourself a much gentler ease into the withdrawls. You have also given yourself a longer time to be in them. Since you only took it for a few doses your not going to have any of the added bonuses it taxes long time users on the way out.

You are going to be in acutes for awhile. Methadone half life varies a bunch from person to person. Most people will not feel much if any withdrawals until day 2,5 or 3. If this is the case with you then you will see the light at the end of your tunnel in 9 days or under. Im thinking you have a chance at getting out in by sunday though, but given the withdrawals didn't really start until day four it may take another 10 days. Methadone takes 10 to 14 days to start to feel a little better for long time users, but the first two or three days are free.

Hot showers or saunas will help, orgasms will help for a sec, not sitting around focusing on how miserable we feel.

Your going to feel pretty rough but you will push through. Everyone ends up paying the piper and the only trick we have to pull is only letting it get one payment off us. If we take a dose of any opiate, just for a break, we are sent back to go and we don't get 200$.

Remind yourself often that what your going through is only temporary and that there is nothing left for you back there except to re plod through the same path you just put all the great effort in pushing through.

Like I said your doing great. Its going to suck but its something that will have to be done at some point. Your five days in. Very Nice Work!! Have some more to go so just make up your mind that your not going to use no matter what cause freedoms on the other side of this tunnel and your not going to throw five hard won days out the window for anything.

Make sure to eat something even if its the last thing yo want to do. nutritional shakes can do the trick.

 

[StairwayToHeaven]

awwwww thank you soo much for your super nice reply @neversickanymore!!!
What can I say, what you're saying is really helpign my soul, I'm telling you! Thats exactly what I needed to hear.. My family unfortunately is of no support at all, quite the contrary.

Also, I've called EVERYWHERE on monday and there is NO HELP where I live for an acute detox.
I actually forgot to mention that I've been admitted to our local hospital from my regular doc and they just let me go 24 hours later saying that they couldn't handle drug-patients.. WTF? They find that out after 24h? Like, I packed my suitcase and went all the way there just to be released off to sort this out on my own again after just one day.. So I was released on the very Friday morning I used the very last time..

I'm feeling really let down by our local "drug counseling" program/whatever all I could achieve was appointments for in 2 weeks when I'm hopefully already through with this.. I've been almost crying on the phone telling them my problem and the lady is like "oh you are wrong here, we only do x/y - byeee", with an ice cold voice, lol.
Oh well, I live in southern germany where theres not much to offer for this kind of problem. I could go to a detox facility but they have 4-6 weeks waiting time. Even if you cant support yourself until then and even if you don't feel like getting into 6 weeks of methadone/subutex.. Oh well. maybe I'm just too picky but I really want to finish this NOW and I will do it and with any help I can get!!! I will! Oh how I hope I will do this.. I really hope so... but if the withdrawal symptoms get to the point where you would do anything to end it, you really can't promise it to anybody because you're not in control of yourself then anymore.. or at least I feel that way sometimes..

By taking the methadone you have given yourself a much gentler ease into the withdrawls.
...
You are going to be in acutes for awhile. Methadone half life varies a bunch from person to person. Most people will not feel much if any withdrawals until day 2,5 or 3. If this is the case with you then you will see the light at the end of your tunnel in 9 days or under. Im thinking you have a chance at getting out in by sunday though, but given the withdrawals didn't really start until day four it may take another 10 days. Methadone takes 10 to 14 days to start to feel a little better for long time users, but the first two or three days are free.

Thank you so much for replying, once again! What you're saying really gives me hope! It's not long until sunday, I think I can do it.. Ill just have to eliminate any risk of getting the chance to score.. Like e.g. not having any money in my pockets, it sucks but it helps, because the first thought If i have a bill in my hand is how to translate into to a drug. and when I think about all the days and weeks I have wasted already with the drug itself and trying to detox, it should be doable to just stay on the track for those 14 days even if feeling like shit.
Also, I've never come this far before, I always gave in on day 3, probably because I'm not even feeling as bad as I felt back then on day 3. BUT ANYWAYS, I have no other option.. I will lose my teeth if I don't get clean now.. I was't able to go to any appointment EVER, because I couldn't plan three days ahead.. You're always either too high for anything or running to score and busy.
This is my very last chance and I really hope I'll not give in to my own brain plotting against me..

Thanks again for replying!!!! I appreciate what you said very, very much!

Also, I will try to keep this post updated about my progress (if any)!
Cheers!
StH

 

[TheStorm]

Congratulations on choosing to quit! I'm 107 days into recovery from 10 years of opiate abuse. I don't have any experience with fentanyl or heroin but it's safe to say I've tried pretty much every other opiate. Getting clean was a difficult journey, a journey I'm still on but I wanted to reassure you that you WILL feel much, much better as the days and weeks roll by. Unfortunately this isn't my first time trying to quit, I had a nasty Methadone habit in 2008 and the subsequent withdrawal was torturous. This time around I put everything I had into recovery, and I'm happy to say that I definitely see improvements every day.

Well enough about me, let's get down to helping you feel a little better. I didn't take any medication for my withdrawal this time around and although I felt really bad during the acute phase I'm certain I minimized the length of withdrawal. Limiting the length of recover was really important to me, I knew I was going to suffer unaided through the acute phase but what I dreaded most were the PAWS (Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome). Here are some of the things that really helped me:

1. EXCERCISE: I know you didn't want to hear that and you certainly don't want to do it but it's the most important thing you can do to get your brain and body back to homeostasis. I started with short walks, then longer ones, then jogging & walking, then jogging, then lifting weights etc. It really sucks at first but if you push yourself you'll get the best high you've ever had. Exercise is the #1 way of naturally getting your endorphins pumping. Trust me, it works.
2. Nutrition/hydration: Drop the sugar, caffeine, processed foods etc. Start eating protein and complex carbs (i.e. mixed greens/green juice). Eat fruits like bananas for potassium. Drink water until your urine is clear.
3. Vitamins: Multi, B, C, A, D, Potassium, Magnesium.
4. Showers/baths/sauna: This will give you much needed relief during difficult times. Take as many hot/warm showers as you can, it will not only make you feel better when you're in the shower but it will give you anywhere from 1/2-1hr of relief.
5. Melatonin: Natural sleep aid (nothing may work for the first few days but this is the safest way to get some sleep). Make sure the room is dark, melatonin only kicks in when it's dark.
6. Sex/masturbation: You're probably not feeling very "romantic" at the moment but sexual activity also releases endorphins. You'll notice your libido will go through the roof over the next few days/weeks...take advantage.
7. Prayer/meditation: Let a power greater than yourself bear some of the weight of your withdrawal.
8. Go to youtube and checkout a guy named: Ryan Donnelly, he has GREAT and inspirational videos on opiate withdrawal, PAWS, and recovery.
9. Read the message boards: this helped knowing there were others who were facing the same dragon as I was...I was uplifted by many of the personal stories.
10. Stay away from ANY opiates including Kratom and try and stay away from benzo's. I had a small habit for a few months and the withdrawals from those are on a whole other level.

Sorry I couldn't provide you with any miracle cures because they don't exist. Stay strong and take it one day, one hour, one minute, one second at a time. Whatever you have to do to make it into that next day sober. You will recover, you will feel better and you will get back to normal. God bless and good luck!

"When you come out the the storm you won't be the same person that walked in...THAT'S what the storm is all about"
-Haruki Murakami

 

[StairwayToHeaven]

Hi there! Thank you so very much, TheStorm! That's really helpful! I'm already trying to eat very clean and also trying to get most important vitamins and minerals. It really wans't a problem for me to eat up until now so that went quite well. Its only bad because the stomach cramps get even worse after eating but its all tolerable.
I've been walking a lot yesterday and I really have to say it does help a LOT. These following days I'll try to be as active as I can.

Today was the second day of waking up soaked in sweat..(which is the WORST part for me of the whole withdrawal. I have noticed a friend of mine really only felt cold and had his regular back pains even during fent-withdrawal. For me the most prominent and most torturing symptom is the hot&cold flashes, the feeling of running around with no skin on your body and the smallest brush of air hurts and the sweating, the fucked up temperature-sensing..) Today is day six, I got 7 whole hours of sleep (????) but I'm really glad about it. Yesterday I slept 5 but that's still A LOT better than what I was feeling during heroin withdrawal and what most people say. End since my overall w/d is still for the most part bearable, I'm still really worried that this might STILL not be the peak..

But Today kinda feels like yesterday so that makes me hope that this might be the worst of it.. (?) Because I think I SHOULD feel much worse today IF it was to get that much worse at all?


I was trying to make a plan for the following days so I can kinda just always focus on the next thing I have on my plan.. Imo that's quite helpful, at least for me, it's better than having your whole day ahead of you, when even a second seems so endless.

Yesterday I took alot of lyrica though, 900mg, and I plan on keep using it until Sunday. (Don't want to use it much longer than 10 days, or else I'll have to deal with that again..) And because I was trying to help with the cold&hot flashes I took some clonidine even though my blood pressure was normal yesterday. Oh well, I don't know, I still hope Clonidine has some miraculous way of helping with Opioate withdrawal other than just lowering the blood pressure (because if it was only that you could basically take just any BB medication, right?)

I'm already drinking very much on a regular basis (~3l average) but mostly really bad stuff. But for those past 6 days I've forced myself to switch to mostly tea (got some detox-tea yesterday) and water.
Today is one of the appointments (psychologist) I managed to get on monday. So I'll first go there and afterwards I'll go to that sauna bath thing..
I hope the psychologist lady can help a bit, she's not for druggies but she already knows me and is still very understanding.. But I would really need real life support from people/an organization that is for drug abusers and thus who know how it is lol.
Because I just know how WEAK I am, I have literally no willpower at all. The only time I lasted this long until now was because the withdrawal was a fucking joke and maybe around 2/3 as bad as previous w/ds..
I just hope I don't give in to my own indulged self that always has this black and white thinking pattern and goes like "ok fuck it all, I jus't wanna feel good now".. How selfish is that, when you know that you only can help your family, yourself and others once you're clean and able to stay clean? I've always thrown it all over board for 30 secs of feeling good. I really have to get my shit together..

Like you said @Storm, I'll be trying to kinda just get through with it no matter what just one day at a time.. All I have to do right now is to see that I'm getting in my bed sober tonight..
Also thank you very much for the Youtubechannel! Watching youtube is what I do most of the time I am at home and have nothing to do right now during this detox, so that's a very appreciated tip!!
THANKS A BUNCH
Sorry for my messy posts with all that useless blabla but I'm really glad I have at least one place to vent for now. God bless this forum. I'll update maybe later this day.

Cheers!

 

[StairwayToHeaven]

OH ALSO I wanted to say RESPECT!!! On going through with a goddamned methadone withdrawal and on staying clean for 107 fucking days!! Thats a HUGE number!! Its really impressive and motivating to see that others get through even worse shit and they get their stuff together eventually!!
I believe from what I have witnessed in my friends and from what I've read that methadone (and subutex) are the most horrifying drugs to detox from and actually stay clean. Also that you did your w/d without aid of any supplements, did you do this on purpose? I've heard of benzo withdrawal going on for months so its a really good thing that you're away from that too! For this very reason I try to do this without benzos, but I would also think that without the help of Lyrica I wouldn't even have come this far/nor feel this "okay" by now..
Seriously, respect! Thats a huge achievement and I wish you all the power in your mind, your body and your environment to stay away from opiates and celebrate your new won freedom! So motivating!

 

[neversickanymore]

How are you doing Stairway?

 

[StairwayToHeaven]

Thank you so much for caring @neversick!! Seriously, the support one gets from here along with all the stories one can read to try motivate oneself is really better than any psycho-support I ever received in any drug-detox or maintenance facilitie.. I'm so thankful for being able to post my "progress" on here and someone actually caring, lol! Thank you so much!!

I have been ok so far. Still standing, still trying.

Today I had the fewest hours of sleep of all the days, and woke up more soaking in sweat than ever.. I was walking soo much yesterday and went to a sauna, went to the only real appointment I was able to get but it helped somewhat and so yesterday was a really stuffed day and I was really tired in the evening. Maybe I should have saved something for today but I'll find ways to keep myself busy. Well, I still haven't done a plan for today/the following days so I might try and do that, this helped me in the past. Youtube was the best thing so far. Usually, when the pain reaches a certain level, you're not able to distract yourself with movies, but I fortunately still can.

So, today is day 7 and I would rate it a 7/10 for now (yesterday was 6,5/10).

The next and first real drug-related appointment is on tuesday and I'm kinda telling myself to not give up at least until then..Maybe they will finally be able to admit me to a real clinic, I'd be so thankful for that. I feel like I could give in every day now If I'm being on my own instead of a supervised place where I would actually get "real" treatment.

Also, I really have to give up the Lyrica, I've read about horrible withdrawals from it. I should also have timed it better. If i had found out earlier about the long half life of methadone and what it actually meant - that I would still have opioids in my body enough to keep me going until day 3-4, I would have started the lyrica there and it would have had the best effect right now. OH well, anyways.. 7 days high dosed Lyrica, the last pill I took this night at 2:00am and I'll try not taking any more for today, even if things might get much worse that way.. with my previous detox-attempts I have probably always drowned any possible withdrawal from Lyrica with enough Fentanyl/other opiates after I relapsed, but I really don't know how hard it will hit right now..

I am really telling myself that by sunday the worst will maybe be over, and I really, really hope it will be that way!

I'll update soon again!
Cheers!
StH

 

[StairwayToHeaven]

oh lord, i have to say i feel quite a bit shittier than when i woke up now, its 3 hours later.. maybe its really the lyrica stopping its thing. maybe i should taper it off at least so I get over this peak withdrawal without relapsing.. i dunno really.. do 14 days of lyrica make one addicted to it physically? :S

but I've decided to go to my old drug counselor today.. i wanted to avoid this cuz i dont wanna see all the druggies there but ok, i need some help rn..
(...)
also just took another 300mg lyrica, ill HOPE that my opioid withdrawal will get somewhat better tomorrow or sth, so i can stop taking lyria.. otherwise its unbearable, or at least I feel that way, dunno if its just some wave of worse opioid w/d but I think its the lyrics not being at an effective dose anymore.
have been thinking alot about scoring H, by now I would maybe even feel something with it again, after this fentanyl madnes...

Wish me luck that I'll get through this day..

 

[neversickanymore]

Your doing amazing even though you feel awful. You are certainly over half way and possibly as close as three days away. Stairway your coming off a ridiculous dose and are almost there. You have made the monumental effort to create the miracle and you have the last and hardest leg left. Just say fuck it and end this no matter what. Its not going to get worse. One last hard push. Throw down until the end.. you have pushed so fkn hard to earn where you are. Just a couple more days. The only thing left back there is hell and starting over at step one of whats trying to crush you right now.

Bend down and draw that line in the sand.. scream fuck this with all you have.. cackle like a madman when you let it know it has no chance.. your destroying it and its terrified.

Fight Fight Fight cause its yours!!

It panicking because it knows your going to kill it.

Just keep going no matter what

Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.
~Thomas Edison

Throw down till it ends and you will be so glad. TRUE

 

[StairwayToHeaven]

SORRY I HAVE NO TIME TO READ YORU POST
i just have to say im going straight to detox facility right now because i feel i cant do it alone anymore.
ill post later what happened, lol.

THANKS FOR THE GREAT SUPPORT!!! BYEEE

 

[neversickanymore]

Check in and give us an update when you can. Godspeed through the rest!!

PAWS LINKS
Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki

Exercise and Brain Neurotransmission
Neurobiology of Exercise
Aerobic Exercise
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. The Endorphin Factory
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. I worked all that out
exercise and sleep

Chemicals and supplements to recover from opiate addiction
Diet & Neurogenesis


it is a powerful thing to keep our thoughts positive and here are some threads many of us use to help us do this.
Good things about being off drugs/getting sober
Share Something Positive from Your Day vs. It's All Around You
Today I Am Thankful For... Ver. 4 Infinite Chances in an Amazing World
Daily Personal Affirmations Log Vs IM THE SHIT & NOT a piece a.. not playing me. NOPE
Managing depressive thinking

Here is the mindfulness thread.
Anhedonia MEGA Thread

 

[oxyfen]

StairwayToHeaven, GL with that, Fentanyl is a squirmy monkey that's hard to get a grasp on. I hear it's one of the worst opiates to wd from. I went from Fentanyl to Oxycontin and I think it would be easier to go to a different pain medication then get off of it. It seems like going from Fentanyl to freedom is the worst road to travel.

My best to you.