Fentanyl question

[will430]

Ok so i am running out of suboxone and have been on 8 mg of subs for 5 months. I also recently got accepted on the patient assistance program so i get free subs for a year. (untill nov 2013) But nevermind this as i am running out in a couple of days and have to make it untill the 20 untill i get more (8 days)

Instead of going through W/D which will happen in about 48 hours from now. A magic genie dropped a split 50mcg. the wax matrix kind. and also i non split up 75 mcg wax kind.

I have NEVER done fent. before. My first question is... Since the 50 mcg waxy non gel fent was cut in half with the plastic cover still on it. Will that be okay assuming if i wore the patch, that it is going to deliever this accurately? or is this one going to release all the fent at once and OD me?

Ok... The full 75 mcg fent patch i got IS gel type. But all the gel looks globbed up in the center. I think thats how it's suppose to be??? I am asking because i like to be educated on new things. Aswell as to not die trying to hold off 8mg of bupe W/D for a few days.

My question is what would you do with these fent patches after forty eight hours of coming off suboxone to hold yourself together. What method would you use these? Wear em? Smoke em? Chew em? Also i know you can't split the gel ones for obvious reasons. But can the non gel wax matrix ones be evenly split from 50 mcg to 25mcg and is it okay for me to wear one after splitting it? Or will it all rush at once?

I work 8 hours a day and go to class 4 hours at night. I do not wanna be W/D from 8mg of subs untill the 20. Please don't lecture me about running outta subs early. as it doesn't really help at this point. Thanks for the input!!!

EDIT:: to all those "viewing" As i can see next to how many who clicked the thread... Chime in and give some advice... good or bad. don't matter. Stop lurking in the shadows mothafucka

 

[Swimmingdancer]

The matrix (non-gel) one should still work even though it's been cut in half, it doesn't deliver the drug all at once and I have even heard of some doctors doing this (although they say cutting is not an "approved" use and care should be taken just to be on the safe side as it may not have been perfectly cut in exactly half). It should give you roughly half the dose of fentanyl per hour that was in the original patch, so in this case it would make it roughly a 25 mcg/hr patch instead of a 50 mcg/hr.

The reservoir (gel) patches can NOT be cut in half, this would release a huge dose of fentanyl at once.

The safest way to use fentanyl patches is to apply to your skin as directed. This is also the best idea because you need it to last as long as possible, plus you don't need to get mentally addicted to the fentanyl. Start with the half matrix patch you have. You can also keep wearing the patch longer than it says to, it will still keep releasing fentanyl, it will just gradually release less as it gets down to the last bit of fent. For example if it was a 50mcg/hr patch that contains 8.4mg of fentanyl (actually fentanyl content might vary from brand to brand but they all contain a lot of extra fentanyl), that would mean that after 72 hrs at 50mcg/hr there should still be more than half the fentanyl left in the patch. It's just that after 72 hrs they can't guarantee you will still be getting a full 50mcg per hr.

If it truly isn't providing enough relief you can apply some heat to speed up the release, but be careful of course (note: this will make your patch not last as long obviously).

You want to try not to raise your drug tolerance while doing this. And you will also have to stop the fentanyl a while before you start taking the Subs again so as not to go into precipitated withdrawals when you start the Subs again.

As for the gel one, it's too bad you only have a gel 75mcg/hr one. A matrix one or a lower-dose one would be better for your situation. I have no idea how to convert 8mg buprenorphine/day into an appropriate and safe fentanyl dose. The conversions for bupe are extremely complicated and even doctors have a lot of trouble with it. I will think some more about what to do with the 75mcg/hr gel patch.

I hope my reply isn't too late - let me know if you're ok

 

[will430]

Thanks so much for the response. I think i will go with the 50 mcg wax matrix when the w/d starts to rear it's ugly face in about 36 to 48 hours. I'll try to wait it out as long as possible as i want to stretch this out and last as long as possible with relief since i have a hell of alot on my late. I'm finishing up my security guard certification tommorow aswell as a full time job working with medicare patients over the phone all day. To say the least i got a full plate and don't have time for a terrible w/d at 8mg a day. I know this feeling from bupe all to well and can't wait to be off it soon. Even though i get a years supply now for nothing! : )

here's the thing with the fent gel patch. It looks scary how all the fent in it is all bubbled up in the middle of it almost. It's hard to believe it's going to time release since it's globbed in such a manor. I'll be honest it's intimidating as i treat this with the upmost respect. (pretty close to the top of the food chain of opiates) But last time i ran out of subs. Since it's my primary opiate of choice. I've tried oxy 30 ir for withdraws and it BARELY made it any better. I release sub is a tolerance jacker aswell as bupe blocks the love affair with alot of other opiates as it makes them obsolete. But damn was i sad when 2 blues barely put a dent in the w/d process.
I will check back in here a few times a day. Swimmingdancer ya rock for posting and if i remember right you were one of the good ones to respond to another thread of mine regarding bupe.
A little insight: i'm 23,male, 6'1, 165 pds, in good health. and never touched fent before this. So im a little weary of smoking it or chewing it. I give it respect and i hope it respects me enough to keep the shitty high dose bupe w/d at bay untill i get another refill for 38 subs on the 20.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

A gel reservoir patch holds the fentanyl in the gel and delivery is determined by a rate-controlling membrane between the drug reservoir and the skin. The membrane is the part that touches your skin, so it only allows a certain amount of fentanyl to slowly seep through it. So the gel doesn't need to be evenly distributed within the patch for it to work properly (as long as the membrane is intact).

Do you just mean the gel looks something like this? (if so that's normal)

NSFW:

EDIT: Still trying to find out if the 75mcg/hr patch would be safe for you. I read that a 75mcg/hr fent patch would be appropriate for someone who takes over 150mg of morphine per day. As a partial agonist buprenorphine does not have a linear dose response curve like full agonist opioids such as morphine do. As such there is no direct conversion ratio that can be applied to all doses. At very low doses (<0.5mgs) buprenorphine is 20-50X as potent as morphine, however at higher doses buprenorphine is not 20-50x as potent, and when you get near or above the ceiling dose (usually thought to be around 30mg of bupe but some people think it's lower), equal doses of morphine may possibly become equally potent or even more potent. Do you know how much of another opioid besides bupe would keep you out of withdrawals?

Also, you may have to take of the patch a couple days before going back on bupe in order to avoid precipitated withdrawals.

 

[will430]

Yes it looks very close to that. It just seemed like it would destroy me if the whole glob where to somehow absorb a little to quickly! I'm going to go ahead and believe the resovar is in tact. As it does look just the same as that patch. Just not specifically that brand. But same concept. Thanks so much for all your help. Also i got ahold of 5 oxy ir 30 today for good measure.

This is the ultimate goal aside from keeping myself outta withdraw. I want to reinduct myself on next tuesday on a dose of either 2 or 4mg of sub. I know this is a strange way to go about it. and it's doubtful a doc would advise such behavior.
But it's time to slowly get myself off of methadone light once and for all. Sub will suck your soul away if you let it take hold of you. Just think... Last year this same time i was serving a tour in Afghanistan.... and now i've fallen back into old ways and a feel like a junkie loser on subs. Heres to the slow downward spiral of withdrawing in the next 2 days. I think not only am i going to wait as long as possible to take some fent.

As i feel like i deserve a morning or two that i wake up. Yawn.... immediately have tears stream down my face, go in the bathroom and have slight diarrhea while simultaneously yawning, gagging, and feel like someone punched me in the stomach.

Also the restless legs are the worst for me as i supposedly have PTSD from deployments to the desert. So i am always on edge and bouncy looking to begin with. So i look like im basically tweaking with involuntary leg jerks and constant bouncing.

I can do alot in my short 23 years, but cold turkey at a high dose of bupe to me is like a dark looming cloud of anguish from lack of sleep, no energy, crazy legs, violent yawning, stomach in a knot, all accompanied with rushing waves of panic/anxiety. Takes a serious toll on someones mind/body.

BTW swimmingdancer. What may i ask is your poison? Or DOC?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Also i got ahold of 5 oxy ir 30 today for good measure.

I think I would use the half of the 50mcg matrix patch first, and then if it doesn't last long enough take as small amounts of the oxycodone as you can. You may not even need the 75mcg patch and I worry that it might be too strong. If you have a week to go and just need to alleviate WDs, then maybe the half patch and the oxy will be enough. And you will want some time without anything before starting back on the Subs. The oxy would be good to use last for that reason, as the fent patches may take quite a long time to wear off.

If after 3 days the patch seems to be getting weaker you can apply a little heat to get it to release more fent to try to make the most of it, since there should still be a substantial amount of fent left in it after 3 days.

Just think... Last year this same time i was serving a tour in Afghanistan.... and now i've fallen back into old ways and a feel like a junkie loser on subs. Heres to the slow downward spiral of withdrawing in the next 2 days. I think not only am i going to wait as long as possible to take some fent.

Yeah wait as long as you can before starting the fent, with bupe it can take quite a while before you start getting noticeable WDs anyway. Don't be so hard on yourself though! You are a good person. Being on Subs doesn't make you a "junkie loser", at least you are trying to recover from your addiction. I'd definitely take this time while you're on bupe to try to work on the reasons behind your addiction, your PTSD etc.

As i feel like i deserve a morning or two that i wake up. Yawn.... immediately have tears stream down my face, go in the bathroom and have slight diarrhea while simultaneously yawning, gagging, and feel like someone punched me in the stomach.

That is how I feel every morning, ugh. I don't think we deserve it, but it can be a reminder of why we want to get off opioids and not have to live at the mercy of a drug.

BTW swimmingdancer. What may i ask is your poison? Or DOC?

My drug of "choice" (not that that's the best term, didn't feel like a choice) was heroin. I was addicted to IV heroin for around 13 yrs. I have been on methadone for around 10 years (there was a good chunk of overlap where I was still using heroin). I quit heroin a few years ago and have spent the past year tapering my methadone dose. I am almost off it now, the plan is to be off it completely within a couple months. I would have done it differently in retrospect, I would definitely have not stayed on methadone for so long and I would have done a quicker taper with another opioid instead of slowly tapering the methadone, which has been brutal. The doctors certainly were highly mistaken when they said anyone should be able to taper off methadone at any point with barely any withdrawals. Methadone (and often Suboxone) has worse withdrawals than heroin that are WAY longer lasting. For me, slowly tapering has merely made the withdrawals livable, (if you can call my life during this taper a life). I'm sure it varies for everyone though, and I have been on methadone a very long time.

 

[will430]

Thanks for the reply! Today i took nothing and just noticed my anxiety level was up a little. But i got through the day and just got done with my security guard certification exam with a 95 on it. Not bad. I'm starting to feel the RLS starting to creep on me. I'm thinking since fent takes a good while to start working. Maybe since it's about to be going on 36 hours, i think i outta slap the 25mcg patch on here pretty soon since it does take so long to start actually peaking and working.

ugh... methadone. I've only played with methadone recreationally and it was for like 2 weeks. But it is another one of those helliush pills to get off of. And i don't know what i do do if i had to wake up in w/d every morning. My god. I think that would become very maddening. I know i can make it two days without subs before i really start kickin good. Then again sub is only methadone-light. I attest methadone is still one of the meaniest in terms of rattling... Take care of your self swimming D! Thanks for being so cool and all ur time. I'll will post back here to let ya know how the patch is keeping 8mg of sub cold turkey w/d's at bay. I hope it does or it's 75mcg straight on the shoulder blade!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Give the 25mcg/hr patch some time before you decide whether it's helping enough or not. It can take quite a while for the levels to stabilize in your blood because of the way it absorbs through the skin. If it's really not strong enough you can apply a little heat, rather than just removing the patch and wasting it. Let me know how you're doing.

Thanks for your kind words

 

[will430]

You got it. I woke up yawned and had years stream down my eyes. Typical crap. So i took the 50 mcg patch and cut into 25mcg. and placed it on my shoulder blade. This is 7 a.m. Hopefully this will do it for the day... I will post to later and keep a update if ya like. : )

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I thought you only had half of a 50mcg patch?

How are you doing now?

 

[will430]

It was half a 100mcg patch i took the 50 and split it in two and slapped in on at about 7 am. I yawned and had mild w/d for about 6 hours. But now it is keeping me baseline. I have a few chills and yawns but as of right now i am happy to know i think i will get some sleep tonight thanks to not rattling. In fact i think i found a perfect solution for perm getting off subs if i need to in the future. Sadly, my source for these is not always able to help me out with these.

In fact, yesterday i just got my "here to help, suboxone card" which gives me free subs for a year. Oh the temptation now that i get all this bupe for free. Only downside is they are films. And plugging those is about all they are worth for besides subl use.

Quick question. After about two or three days how should i go about getting the remaining fent outta these? putting em in the cheek like a quarter at a time? or broken down into smaller pieces?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Glad it's working out for you

I'd just leave the patch on your skin as long as you can, it may keep working for a while past the 3 day mark before you feel like it's not releasing as much fent. When that does happen you can apply a little heat to the patch. That would be safer and more consistant/longer lasting than putting it in your cheek I think. But if 25mcg/hr is working well enough for you and you have 2 of those pieces you're going to be fine for the week. As I said you'll need to go with nothing for a while before you can take the bupe again to avoid precipitated WDs.

Isn't Suboxone film all there is now (aside from Subutex which doesn't have the naloxone)? They're discontinuing Suboxone pills.

 

[tyrael]

....Oh the temptation now that i get all this bupe for free. Only downside is they are films. And plugging those is about all they are worth for besides subl use....

Where are you located?! There's legislation in place in Aus. with regards with dosing to prevent anything like this! - prescriptions/allowances cannot be phoned in (there must essentially be a paper trail due to the type/effects of these drugs, (although afaik not a law however many) requiring supervised/physician supervised dosing, (since a script must be presented*) the person cannot hit multiple pharmacies....just the exact dose you've been stablised on would only be obtainable. Often each pharmacy/chain implement their own rules (if one wants to be dosed there). In addition to each pharmacies polices!

....Isn't Suboxone film all there is now (aside from Subutex which doesn't have the naloxone)? They're discontinuing Suboxone pills.

( Aus-centric) In fact just as of a few months ago!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Where are you located?! There's legislation in place in Aus. with regards with dosing to prevent anything like this! - prescriptions/allowances cannot be phoned in (there must essentially be a paper trail due to the type/effects of these drugs, (although afaik not a law however many) requiring supervised/physician supervised dosing, (since a script must be presented*) the person cannot hit multiple pharmacies....just the exact dose you've been stablised on would only be obtainable. Often each pharmacy/chain implement their own rules (if one wants to be dosed there). In addition to each pharmacies polices!

He is talking about the coupons the manufacturer offers in the US, all they do is pay for the portion of your normal Suboxone prescription not covered by insurance, so you don't have to pay for it, it's not extra Suboxone. You just present the card to your pharmacy. I think he was just saying it will be harder to cut down on or get off Suboxone if he doesn't have to pay for it.

( Aus-centric) In fact just as of a few months ago!

The discontinuation of Suboxone tablets is not just in Australia, I'm pretty sure the OP is from the US and Reckitt Bennister is discontinuing all Suboxone tablets in the US, depending on where you live/your pharmacy it may be immediately or may be up to 4 months from now (according to their press release/website). Some people in the US are already reporting no longer getting them and are being given the film instead. Subutex and generic Subutex are still available, but many doctors are unwilling to prescribe it (at least in North America) as they have been told Subutex is more easily abused since it doesn't contain naloxone (which is actually false but perception is everything). I'm not sure about whether or not Suboxone will remain available in other countries.