Fentanyl (briefly) to lower suboxone tolerance

[will430]

Ok. Hear me out. I've been mainting on 12mg of suboxone under the tongue for awhile now. i've had two watson 75mcg gel patches laying around for quite some time. What i want to do is take two or three days off of suboxone then go ahead and wear a patch for 3 days each. After wearing the patches i would like to reinduct myself on 4mg of suboxone. And maintain on that from that point forward. I need to drop the bupe levels in my body and instead of tapering slowly. I wanna drop off where i am. And get back on strictly to 4mg. Where i will stay for a little while and adjust to normal again. I am doing this to conserve subs. And use these silly patches i got laying around.

Any comments? Concerns? Am i stupid doing this? Hows my aim?

 

[Ektor]

I just can't see the logic behind using fentanyl to decrease bupe tolerance. If anything it could even raise it. However i'm not familiar at all with fentanyl and i think that 75mcg is a pretty weak dose, so maybe i will be wrong and it could be a successful strategy to instant-taper subs, so Good Luck!

 

[monkeyemergency]

Like the above poster, i don't see the logic behind using fentanyl as a means to decrease tolerance. I mean, although this is contrary to my own experience (i find it takes far more than 2 days w/o opiates in my system to notice any significant decrease in tolerance), perhaps taking two or three days off Buprenorphine would decrease your tolerance, but definitely NOT while taking another opioid, a full mu agonist of a similar or higher potency than suboxone. Although the ^ above poster is correct in that 75mcg is a low dose, and in a slow release patch, i recall being given one 200mcg injection of fentanyl in hospital and not feeling much, followed by another 200mcg in order to knock me out (in combination with Propofol and midazolam that is). So 75mcg slow release definitely wouldnt do much for me. And i'm on 16mgs of suboxone, which isnt much higher than you. Why do you want to save up your suboxone? More importantly why is it neccesary to make such an uncomfortably large dose?

 

[sekio]

Fentanyl is not going to decrease your tolerance. It's just about the worst drug to try that with anyway since it is so ultrapotent and short acting.

At the end of your Fent career when you go back on lower dose bupe you will feel like a fucking zombie.

 

[will430]

Ok.. So i take roughly two days off from dosing 12mg of sub. Put on a 75mcg patch for two-three days. Change it and put the 2nd patch on for two or three days. THEN since the fentanyl releases slow as fuck in the fent deposit in the skin.. Grind my teeth waiting for another 24 hours or so to START back on the sub. With ALL these days in between.. I'm thinking i can try to lower the OVERALL amount of sub i am using. I want to stockpile and get down to a low ass dose. In order to really be able to taper from 4mg and below. Doing this will plan of action will continue me on through my doc at 12mg maintaince dose. I'm on the patient assistance program for 8 more months. So i wanna be off subs a little bit before those 8 months are up.

in theory. This could work. I know taking the 2 fent patches won't give me a buzz or anything like that. I don't care about that. Contray to junkie code, I am not interested in a buzz from them. If i wanted a buzz i'd make a thread asking "how long to wait after sub dose, to cheek fent, or smoke fent?

lol, i know rationalizes is a son of a bitch. But hey. I can taper down slow and painfully. And pay for it for awhile after each drop. OR i can make one big freaking drop. Come back with full of discipline at 4mg. Which still leaves me comfortably AT the ceiling dose of subs. (in my opinion anything after 4mg is a waste) I think its more or less a victory to drop 1/3 of my sub dose with just two fent patches. Seeing as ALL the days in between will lower the overalll amount of sub in me DRASTICALLY.
Hey. Tell me it won't work. Tommorow will make two days off of sub. And i will be slapping a patch on to get this theory started. If nobody locks my thread, i'll report back. See ya at 4mg. Haters

( this is like the 2nd time i've done fent. It is dull boring high. I wouldn't go on a run with fent. I'd run off to opana if i wanted that. I just want to be able to function and work while i take off almost 8days from subs and then go back to subs at a 1/3rd of my dose)

 

[sekio]

my prediction is you will feel like hell as soon as you get back on suboxone

have fun

 

[will430]

I know i will feel like hell. Ok Which is a better option. My original idea. Or dropping from 12mg of sub to 4mg. Those are my only options. What would you do. Take a break and use fent for 6 days then go to a third of ur dose. Or just drop 2/3rd of your dose and just use 4mg of subs and tough it out. What would you pick if you had to? I don't have to many options or don't you think i would do this the conventional way?

 

[Crashing]

I see your logic, unlike the rest of the posters (it makes perfect sense). But as they are saying, fentanyl isn't the best option for that. Fastest way to drop sub dosage for me was to switch to a full agonist for a few days and reinduct myself at a lower sub dose, but that's gonna be hard to do with the most potent full agonist opiate available. I used hydrocodone for this.

 

[sekio]

Just drop your dose.

Switching from bupe to full agonists, you have to wait until all the bupe is out of your body before you use full-ag's, and you have to wait until all the full-ag's are metabolised and out of your body before you take bupe. Otherwise the bupe will just displace the fentanyl off your receptors and send you into precipitated withdrawals.

 

[will430]

Thanks crashing! I live in florida to. That's what's up. Trust me, i wish i had the option of using a weaker dosage to go ahead and drop off of subs to get myself lower. I'm bad at tapering off opiates (as you probably can tell) I wish i had a bottle of hydros laying around. I think you had the right idea! And it worked for you to taper? And sekio, shoulden't i just wait 48 hours to put the patch on? I know in order to feel it i need to wait untill all the bupe is gone. But, is it dangerous or something to wait two days then transition to fent?

I COMPLETELY understand the idea of being sick coming off fent to go back to subs. I don't want PW's. This is a good thing as it keeps me off of bupe even longer so i am seperating myself as best i can from bupe. But is two days to soon to put the patch on? It's ok if i don't feel it. I'm just distancing myself from bupe and i know the patch will keep me well enough to function. Regardless if i feel it or not. Please explain why i need to wait untill all the bupe is outta my system? It's ok if i don't feel the fent. I could care less about a buzz.. Does it pose a risk on my health only waiting two days?

The only reason im asking is when i went from sub to done for 6 months. I was advised to take the done 24 hours after my last sub. Of course most of it was blocked during this time. But does it pose danger or something i need to be aware of? The nurse told me it's no big deal to take a opiate after sub in this instance?

 

[sekio]

I'm not going to elaborate on why it's a bad idea to use a superportent full agonist opioid to "lower your tolerance". It is likely, in fact, it will *increase* your tolerance, because fentanyl is a full agonist opiate and bupe is a partial agonist.

Is it safe? No, not really, considering fentanyl will have a much higher risk for overdose and general fuckups.

ADD->OD

 

[Ian937]

Do a fast tAper w/ subs unless your reallly ready to go thru sub induction again..which i think youll regret if you go thru with it. If anything id take loww dose of sub an if it bothers u too much (im talkin like 2mg) then wear the patch gor a couple hrs then take it off but now thinking about that is a bad idea the fent may break all the way thru idk w/ you wearing it if u smoked it or chewed it probly would def break thru
Slow taper subs and hock those fents off!

 

[will430]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I am on day two of only taking 4mgs from 12mgs. So far i am doing okay. And not trying to use the fent unless shit gets nasty. In which case. My other plan of attack will still be using the fent and letting bupe clear me outta me. I just want to be stable on a lower dose. Damnit. I'm so sick of subs and taking this bullshit everyday. I woke up with nasty back pain between my shoulder blades today. So one way or another. I will be on 4mgs of sub or less. It's getting real old real fast. 8 months sub is to long.

Thanks Ian for suggesting to tough it out and just drop the sub dose. It's looking like that is what is happening so far. How long dose it take to stablize on subs when i do a big drop like this? Rough estimate?

Sekio- Roger that, i know fent is probably only going to raise my tolerance. Contray to popular belief i don't want to cope a buzz. Nor raise my tolerance. Thanks for the advice. Honestly alot of what you guys said in this thread is playing a big part as to how i am going to go about this. Sorry for not posting this in the correct thread either 0_o
Thanks guys- Will

 

[Ian937]

Watsup will
I dont have much experience w stabilizing bbut i do go from 8mg back to 4 mg alot and usually just 2 to 3 days for me..
and really only on day 5 no H but ive changed this time i hope , had opportunith to use everyday even held it and didnt do any thursday coppin for someone.. I am finally getting my feelings emotions slowly back ..but hell man enough bout me good on you for having self control in this issue. That itself says alot and is an excellent thing.

 

[will430]

That's what's up Ian. Man that's huge to have it in your hand and not pinch any for yourself! Suboxone is a double edged sword since i went on it when using 120mg a day of oxy. Now if i jumped off and tried oxy again. It would prob take 300mg to catch a nod. Sub sucks.

Talk about self control bro. I've had these 2 gel patches for like 3 weeks now. I'm just trying to devise a way to get down off this sub so much and transition to a low dose to maintain on. My goal is 2mg of sub a day. I can be happy on that. Plus it never hurts to be prescribed more and stock pile em. Since these shady doctors down here in florida are constantly closing and opening sub clinics all the time. It's like a circus act for them to go somewhere for a few months. Get people dependent on subs. Then bail on there patients. Leaving them in a whole deeper mess. : / I'm trying to stay one step ahead in case some shady doc leaves me to the wolves. At least i can be on 2mg and be ok.

Keep it up man. Oh and stop going back and forth all the time. I swear it gets harder and harder every time you got to get back on subs! I haven't had any opiate since subs for like 4 months now. : 0

 

[Ian937]

Damn man gj. And i totally agree i jumped back and forth ALOT. Once a wk for the last year... 4mths thats great. I had 6 in '11 stay up on your game,keep those dukes up...
Not sure if you know bout suboxobes main site naabt i think it is usually good source for clinics. I get 90x sub 8 strips a month now..i know about fL and we went and still deal w it in ohio aswell..
Best of luck man i think youre due. And because bupe may pAss as norbupe in small doses if your one of the ones who have the best pain relief at doses 2mg and lower