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Feminism!

Rated E

Rated E

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
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Australia
This thread started out in the April Fool's thread but I've separated it out. As well as responding to the posts already in this thread, here are a few questions that you can answer some or all of:

Are you a feminist? Why or why not?
Can men be feminists?
What does feminism mean to you?
What issues do you think are focussed on by the feminist movement, and what issues do you think should be focussed on?

- Vanth



vanth said:
Jezebel, a feminist blog type thing I read
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lol
 
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I don't see what particular amusing about feminism, seeing as women still don't get equal pay for equal work, tampons are regarded as a "luxury item" and are thus subject to the gst, and the media presents us with the commonly accepted ideal of an underweight teenage model coated in expensive cosmetics and photoshopped into a body that no healthy person could function with. This could nearly go in the rants thread :)
 
vanth said:
I don't see what particular amusing about feminism, seeing as women still don't get equal pay for equal work, tampons are regarded as a "luxury item" and are thus subject to the gst,
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What about shavers for men? Are they considered a luxury item? Shit, I can't imagine many guys who could go for a week without shaving without having it affect their appearance greatly. To the point that it might affect ones job prospects (due to an "unprofessional appearance").

vanth said:
and the media presents us with the commonly accepted ideal of an underweight teenage model coated in expensive cosmetics and photoshopped into a body that no healthy person could function with. This could nearly go in the rants thread :)
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Social expectations and norms affect men, just like they affect woman. They just happen to be different expectations and norms, because believe it or not, men and women are different. Scientifically, stereotypically and sexually, they are different.

I've been encouraged all my life to play and or enjoy sports such as football, soccer and cricket. Things I have no interest in. I still to this day get snide remarks from my father and brother about my obvious lack of interest in football. I really couldn't care less of course, there are more important things that I occupy my mind with, but nevertheless.

I am expected to work for a living. Be reasonable for a second, what are the chances that I will find a woman who is happy to go to work full time while I stay at home and look after kids. Sure, these women might exist, but they're radical exceptions, in my opinion.

Height, dick size... I'm almost certain many guys worry about these things more than you'd ever care to know (whether they express it or not).

I find feminists funny because they act as if they are the only people who are hard done by. When in it's more likely that everyone is.
 
So basically you've made a bunch of ill conceived and largely baseless assumptions about feminists in general and about me in particular.

I have no desire to debate this issue with a misinformed 20 year old boy who is arrogant enough to think he's really got a handle on this whole gender equality thing and that those wacky feminists are just over exaggerating.

I will, however, say that I think laughing at the mention of someone's deeply held beliefs completely uninvited and in a public forum is pretty rude.
 
vanth said:
So basically you've made a bunch of ill conceived and largely baseless assumptions about feminists in general and about me in particular.

I have no desire to debate this issue with a misinformed 20 year old boy who is arrogant enough to think he's really got a handle on this whole gender equality thing and that those wacky feminists are just over exaggerating.
Click to expand...

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/poisoning-the-well.html

My "assumptions" are no more ill conceived than yours. You'll notice that I addressed each of your "scenarios" with one of my own. While you did not address my claims, at all basically, you just responded with the fallacy I pointed out above.

If you want to debate, I'm more than happy to, but it seems more like you wanted to state a grab bag of pro-feminist claims, selectively viewing certain aspects of society as you will, without having to deal with the claims being questioned.

vanth said:
I will, however, say that I think laughing at the mention of someone's deeply held beliefs completely uninvited and in a public forum is pretty rude.
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My intentions were playful, but I'm sorry if you didn't see it that way.

*reluctantly awaits post deletions so that the pressing and awe inspiring discussion that was taking place may resume...*
 
vanth said:
So basically you've made a bunch of ill conceived and largely baseless assumptions about feminists in general and about me in particular.

I have no desire to debate this issue with a misinformed 20 year old boy who is arrogant enough to think he's really got a handle on this whole gender equality thing and that those wacky feminists are just over exaggerating.

I will, however, say that I think laughing at the mention of someone's deeply held beliefs completely uninvited and in a public forum is pretty rude.
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Didnt you just discriminate on his age?

I thought he raised some good and well thought out points (although all off topic) and you pulled the "your opinion is crap, you shouldnt argue with me, you are disrespecting my opinion" card

I couldnt care less about the topic but i dont think you should consider the possibility the issue isnt external
 
Rated E, I just said I *don't* want to debate this with you, which is why I have not addressed your claims.

The reason I mentioned rated e's age was to contrast it with his attitude of "I understand all about this situation, much better than any of the people involved in it, many of whom have studied or lived in it for decades, aren't they all funny" rather than to suggest that someone's ideas aren't valid merely because they are young.
 
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The only thing I will debate, RE, is the comparison you've made between razors and female personal hygeine products...well, there is none. Does anyone actually think that tampons and razors are in the same ball park??

Actually, we could do away with tampons and other disposable products - but then you'll have your girlfriend, mother, sister, aunt, female friends a) carrying around a big plastic bag full of rags which are saturated with endometrial lining and other assorted lovely things, clotheslines will be full of menstrual rags, laundry buckets will be filled with bloody water. Kinda like nappies, but filled with clotted blood.

:p
 
The ideas I considered ill conceived or baseless include the views rated e has ascribed to me automatically because I've said I'm a feminist, e.g. that feminists and/or I in particular don't think women and men are different biologically, psychologically, etc.

In response to maddog's comment that some of rated e's comments are good and well thought out, I agree, and I even agree with some of them. However, like I said before I don't want to debate this issue, especially with someone who has taken the viewpoint that my beliefs are amusing and trivial, as I know that would upset and frustrate me.

The response of rated e that I considered to be rude was his initial "lol" message, and his statement that he finds feminists "funny" rather than the fact that he disagreed with it.

I'll make this into a separate thread now.
 
Samadhi said:
The only thing I will debate, RE, is the comparison you've made between razors and female personal hygeine products...well, there is none. Does anyone actually think that tampons and razors are in the same ball park??
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It was an analogy.

vanth said:
Rated E, I just said I *don't* want to debate this with you, which is why I have not addressed your claims.
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I know you don't want to debate it, though you said that after the fact. I was pointing out that you stated your beliefs but then didn't take to them being questioned very well. Perhaps they're better left unsaid if you don't want someone to pick them apart... Not at least while I'm around. ;)

vanth said:
The reason I mentioned rated e's age was to contrast it with his attitude of "I understand all about this situation, much better than any of the people involved in it, many of whom have studied or lived in it for decades, aren't they all funny" rather than to suggest that someone's ideas aren't valid merely because they are young.
Click to expand...

I don't remember portraying any such attitude (btw, are you suggesting that I am not involved in the situation? The way you have worded it suggest that this is what you are saying, otherwise you wouldn't have specified "people involved in it" because that would include me, you used the term to differentiate from me, was this an accident?).

The fact that I'm eager to debate doesn't even suggest that I think I "know more" at all. You must know by now that I'm attracted to any sort of discussion like this like a magnet. See usually how it works is this:

- You make a bunch of claims.
- I refute or attempt to refute them.
- You respond to that.

Where in that exchange was the attitude or claim that "I know more?" I was expecting you to roll with the punches and respond in like...

Anyway, I was being playful by saying "lol" to the feminism thing. You're uptight response only added to the humour of the situation. Fact is, my earlier response should show that I am quite aware of inequalities that apply to me and males in general, just as I am aware of inequalities that apply to females. Taking the stance of "feminist" just seems odd to me. When there are inequalities on both sides.
 
Samadhi said:
Not a good one... didn't have much relevance at all really.

:\
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Um, yes it did.

See what I did there.

If you can't see the relevance, I can't really spell it out anymore for you.

Pleonastic said:
Must be that time of the month... :D

*ducks*
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Hey, come join me. :D
 
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