Bupe Facing Buprenorphine withdrawal abyss, some questions

[PredatorVision]

I have been on Subutex (not Suboxone) since September 2015, my amount has varied from 8mg a day down to 0.4mg a day, That all went to hell about two years ago (March 2019), where I officially stopped receiving treatment. I had however at the time completely relapsed and had found an unofficial source for 8mg Subutex tablets and gradually until about 2020 I was back up to taking 8mg a day, and even worse snorting 8 - 12mg a day, which is where I am now, and basically have been for the last year and a half.

Accessing treatment in the current climate seems practically impossible and there will be a long wait for an appointment (at least 4 - 6 weeks, maybe longer), I have managed to push the amount I am taking daily down to about 6mg a day (roughly) and have about 10 8mg tablets left, and about 50 0.4mg tablets.

Is it remotely possible for me to taper with this realistically, considering I have been on the drug for 5 years now and not experienced a single withdrawal in that time?

I have never been through a Sub withdrawal so I have no idea what to expect, would jumping from say 6 - 8mg be possible? how does it compare to Heroin wd? I have in the past been more than a bit familiar with repeatedly withdrawing from H so know exactly what to expect with that, that i'd feel physically fine after a week, and mentally at least in the right place after a month. With Buprenorphine i've really no idea though and am worried it could last months and be far worse considering the time i've been on it (the longest I was ever on H consistently was about 3 months).

And also does Kratom specifically help with Subutex withdrawal? I bought some on the off chance after reading some comments saying it helped.

thanks,

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Oh god I really will just be honest. You're going to feel pretty bad after that extended time period. What you do with that is entirely up to you and I won't judge.

However, I would state that if you want to remain not using something stronger like oxy/heroin because idk you're background--it could be tempting so I don't know if that's the danger here. Kratom seriously helps with sub-type withdrawals. Sub withdrawals are not physically sickly like oxy but it mentally can be bad. I'd almost be inclined to say "just as bad" but it's all so opinionated lol. Kratom knocks a lot of the edge off for sub withdrawals but the problem with subutex/suboxone is how long lasting the drug is in itself. Therefore, the withdrawal lasts a long time as well.

So I have no advice here for you because that's up to you lol. I just would expect to not like how you feel in my opinion and take it from there. I feel like a million people have encountered this situation at one point or another. They'll definitely have the best answers.

 

[G_Chem]

I tried jumping off 4mg after about 5yrs use, with a lot smaller dosages overall. And only made it 11 or so days, before it was too much.

I can only recommend further tapering. I’d use what you currently have to get you through til you find a doctor, by tapering down quickly to a low enough point that will last you awhile.

I had a point in my life where I was cut off for awhile and could hardly get any. I went from 4mg down to .5mg as quickly as I could, sometimes having to skip days and what not.

Kratom didn’t do much for me unless I used highly potent extracts. Loperamide at around 10-20mg definitely helped though.

-GC

 

[Bella Figura]

I wouldn't jump from 6-8mg personally. Every time I've tapered sub I try and get down to a week or two of 0.4mg then a week or two of 0.2mg, then jump.

Can you not make a spreadsheet with the total mg of sub you have and work out how much you'd need to reduce daily to reach that point?

It'll be relatively painless compared to cold turkey heroin withdrawal, but it'll just be more long winded and take a couple of weeks before you're totally opiate free.

 

[PredatorVision]

thanks for the replys

I have moved down to 4mg today.. doing this over a short period is a bit daft though as I feel fine now I know for a fact it takes two weeks between each reduction to normalise to the new dose so it's going to be a couple of days before I feel it. I managed to (hopefully) get my hands on another 21 8mg tablets so I should have some legroom to get my dose down in the coming month.

My main issue is that I work full time, and have done since the start of the pandemic and can't really take any time off work. I'm considering saying that either I or a family member has Covid just to get out of work without question though my bigger fear is that if I actually get covid whilst in the midst of this withdrawal.

If anyone can give me any info of their experiences of withdrawing from Subutex/Suboxone/Buprenorphine in general i'd appreciate it.

Would even withdrawing at a relativatly high dose, say 2 - 4mg be easier than a Heroin withdrawal, mentally or physically? The physical side is what usually worries me the most, though in reality it is always the mental side that makes it a nightmare.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Cant you go on methadone?

You are going to have to taper to like .5mg at least.

Or just join a clinic, you can probably stabilize at 30mg and come down 1mg a week. Will be pretty painless.

But yeah, I was clean after taking opiates daily for even longer. The whole withdrawal is kinda forever in a way. But the hardest part is over after 4-6 months you start to slowly forget.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Keep in mind that 0.07mg of Buprenorphine is as potent as 80mg of Oxycodone. Though, it's a partial agonist, so it doesn't provide the same level of euphoria and high, but with how potent it is, it can raise your tolerance. And with how long it stays attached to receptors, it is really wise to taper down to atleast .5mg or maybe even 0.02mg every other day or something. This should make coming off of it a little less painful. I've been on bupe for about 5 years and have no plans on ever really coming off. I've only ever had withdrawal from it once for a week and the insomnia and suicidal ideation were insane. And that was dropping at about 2mg.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

thanks for the replys

I have moved down to 4mg today.. doing this over a short period is a bit daft though as I feel fine now I know for a fact it takes two weeks between each reduction to normalise to the new dose so it's going to be a couple of days before I feel it. I managed to (hopefully) get my hands on another 21 8mg tablets so I should have some legroom to get my dose down in the coming month.

My main issue is that I work full time, and have done since the start of the pandemic and can't really take any time off work. I'm considering saying that either I or a family member has Covid just to get out of work without question though my bigger fear is that if I actually get covid whilst in the midst of this withdrawal.

If anyone can give me any info of their experiences of withdrawing from Subutex/Suboxone/Buprenorphine in general i'd appreciate it.

Would even withdrawing at a relativatly high dose, say 2 - 4mg be easier than a Heroin withdrawal, mentally or physically? The physical side is what usually worries me the most, though in reality it is always the mental side that makes it a nightmare.

Some of my worst withdrawals were at the start of all this

There's never a better time to withdraw from opiates than now. At least you'll be miserable with everyone else.. back in the day it was so exhausting withdrawing my ass off and being around all the happy morning people with so much energy. Now we can all be miserable together!

Keep in mind that 0.07mg of Buprenorphine is as potent as 80mg of Oxycodone. Though, it's a partial agonist, so it doesn't provide the same level of euphoria and high, but with how potent it is, it can raise your tolerance. And with how long it stays attached to receptors, it is really wise to taper down to atleast .5mg or maybe even 0.02mg every other day or something. This should make coming off of it a little less painful. I've been on bupe for about 5 years and have no plans on ever really coming off. I've only ever had withdrawal from it once for a week and the insomnia and suicidal ideation were insane. And that was dropping at about 2mg.

I trust these statistics but it's still shocking to me. Some people are on 20 something milligrams of this stuff but I suppose heroin use could make someone's tolerance that high.

For the record I find that even being on high dose subs for 2-3 weeks even seems to not really produce much of a withdrawal for me. It may be about the body's time period on subs more-so than the dose? Not sure.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Some of my worst withdrawals were at the start of all this

There's never a better time to withdraw from opiates than now. At least you'll be miserable with everyone else.. back in the day it was so exhausting withdrawing my ass off and being around all the happy morning people with so much energy. Now we can all be miserable together!



I trust these statistics but it's still shocking to me. Some people are on 20 something milligrams of this stuff but I suppose heroin use could make someone's tolerance that high.

For the record I find that even being on high dose subs for 2-3 weeks even seems to not really produce much of a withdrawal for me. It may be about the body's time period on subs more-so than the dose? Not sure.

Yes, I think when you use full agonists, every time you get "high", your brain/body sprouts new receptors for the drug to attach to as your dose & tolerance increases. So if you use heroin long enough, you may need higher doses of bupe because even though it has a ceiling effect, the added dosages can still fill up the extra receptors that are "craving" heroin until they die off. Or at least this is what I've read and assumed. But this brings me to wonder because i've also read in literature that at certain doses of buprenorphine, all of your receptors are covered. So I wonder if buprenorphine causes the brain to sprout new receptors like full agonists do & if not, how it's properties can be measured for some one with base line amount of opiate receptors, versus some one who has more. If that makes sense. I wonder where I could find some info about all that.

I have yet to experience full blown bupe withdrawal after all these years except once for a week and hope not to any time soon. I think the withdrawal can vary depending on dose and length & probably the person. The one time I did go through it, I remember I lost a lot of weight quickly, sweat a lot and was very restless and unsatisfied with everything in life. Couldn't sleep either. But it did creep up over the course of a few days, rather than being that direct, in your face withdrawals that hit from short acting opiates. Depending on the person & their time on this drug, I could see it being more of a "in the background" kind of withdrawal rather than what they're use to. But everybody's different too I suppose.

 

[PredatorVision]

Keep in mind that 0.07mg of Buprenorphine is as potent as 80mg of Oxycodone. Though, it's a partial agonist, so it doesn't provide the same level of euphoria and high, but with how potent it is, it can raise your tolerance. And with how long it stays attached to receptors, it is really wise to taper down to atleast .5mg or maybe even 0.02mg every other day or something. This should make coming off of it a little less painful. I've been on bupe for about 5 years and have no plans on ever really coming off. I've only ever had withdrawal from it once for a week and the insomnia and suicidal ideation were insane. And that was dropping at about 2mg.

Dropping the dose isn't as big an issue for me as coming off altogether, I was on 0.8mg for about 6 months at one point and I was at a place where I thought that I could literally spend the rest of my life at that dose and be completely happy. It's just getting myself back into that mind set again and keeping to the reduction.

I had suicidal ideation at one point about 5 years ago from a H withdrawal, it only lasted a couple of minutes and was more about escaping the immediate pain. Without listening to music that stirs emotion in my brain getting through that would have been impossible. The last H withdrawal I went through I was actually at work full time for the whole duration and it was the first two weeks of a brand new job, I had got to a point where I had run completely out of money and was essentially forced to get a job and still had a month until my first payday. So literally had to power through the first week making a terrible first impression and spending hours of each day emptying my guts in a cubicle whilst trying to learn the ropes. I was literally tallying the hours, starting from 200 counting down to 0 where I would hopefully feel fine.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Dropping the dose isn't as big an issue for me as coming off altogether, I was on 0.8mg for about 6 months at one point and I was at a place where I thought that I could literally spend the rest of my life at that dose and be completely happy. It's just getting myself back into that mind set again and keeping to the reduction.

I had suicidal ideation at one point about 5 years ago from a H withdrawal, it only lasted a couple of minutes and was more about escaping the immediate pain. Without listening to music that stirs emotion in my brain getting through that would have been impossible. The last H withdrawal I went through I was actually at work full time for the whole duration and it was the first two weeks of a brand new job, I had got to a point where I had run completely out of money and was essentially forced to get a job and still had a month until my first payday. So literally had to power through the first week making a terrible first impression and spending hours of each day emptying my guts in a cubicle whilst trying to learn the ropes. I was literally tallying the hours, starting from 200 counting down to 0 where I would hopefully feel fine.

I meant dropping off altogether at around 2mg was rough for me.

But you are right that dose reductions with bupe are fairly painless.
Best to be on a very low dose once you jump off altogether though.

 

[MyrandaK]

BUPE QUESTION
Does anyone have any knowledge, theories or experience to share regarding what happens when you skip doses/days. In effort to reduce my tolerance, I’ve skipped doses and days - only for it to take twice as much to catch me up the next time.
I’ve taken 2-3mg a day for the last year. The last 3 months, I’ve cold turkeyed several days at a time, many times, and taken less than .5mg many days. But on the days I’d had enough and wanted a break, I’d have to take 1mg 3 or 4 times to get me leveled out.
After working hard to lower my dose, it feels bad to take so much. Which is why I hate changing brands. A reduction of just a fraction of a milligram takes weeks to get stabilized at. Imagine going through that. Having to lay down early every day because your medicine is wearing off. Not able to work as many hours. Having to use self discipline. Only to change brands and that minute adjustment in dose gets blown because the potency of the new brand isn’t the same. This has happened to me many, many times. Slow and steady is the best way to cut down. I wish I’d stuck to it over the years instead of thinking it had to be all or nothing.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

BUPE QUESTION
Does anyone have any knowledge, theories or experience to share regarding what happens when you skip doses/days. In effort to reduce my tolerance, I’ve skipped doses and days - only for it to take twice as much to catch me up the next time.
I’ve taken 2-3mg a day for the last year. The last 3 months, I’ve cold turkeyed several days at a time, many times, and taken less than .5mg many days. But on the days I’d had enough and wanted a break, I’d have to take 1mg 3 or 4 times to get me leveled out.
After working hard to lower my dose, it feels bad to take so much. Which is why I hate changing brands. A reduction of just a fraction of a milligram takes weeks to get stabilized at. Imagine going through that. Having to lay down early every day because your medicine is wearing off. Not able to work as many hours. Having to use self discipline. Only to change brands and that minute adjustment in dose gets blown because the potency of the new brand isn’t the same. This has happened to me many, many times. Slow and steady is the best way to cut down. I wish I’d stuck to it over the years instead of thinking it had to be all or nothing.

I've noticed myself that after 5 years of daily use that it seems like my body almost metabolizes and excretes it faster. Bupe has always pinned my pupils, almost just as bad as heroin, even if I'm not feeling the bupe, I can tell it's doing something when my pupils are still pin pricks in the dark. Bupe use to last me 24-48hours after 1 dose. Now after I dose (which is usually like .5-1mg at a time), I find that within 8-12hrs my pupils are back to regular size. So now I must split my doses.

Could be a bio availability issue too? Maybe not, but bupe does have shitty sublingual bio availability. We think we're taking a whole 1mg, but we honestly have no way to tell if we actually absorbed that whole 1mg... so it's a little tricky.

 

[jock briton]

Dropping the dose isn't as big an issue for me as coming off altogether, I was on 0.8mg for about 6 months at one point and I was at a place where I thought that I could literally spend the rest of my life at that dose and be completely happy. It's just getting myself back into that mind set again and keeping to the reduction.

I had suicidal ideation at one point about 5 years ago from a H withdrawal, it only lasted a couple of minutes and was more about escaping the immediate pain. Without listening to music that stirs emotion in my brain getting through that would have been impossible. The last H withdrawal I went through I was actually at work full time for the whole duration and it was the first two weeks of a brand new job, I had got to a point where I had run completely out of money and was essentially forced to get a job and still had a month until my first payday. So literally had to power through the first week making a terrible first impression and spending hours of each day emptying my guts in a cubicle whilst trying to learn the ropes. I was literally tallying the hours, starting from 200 counting down to 0 where I would hopefully feel fine.

Hi mate how are you now ? i hope you are good,well iv taperd from 12mg down to 0,4 mig and have been stuck on that amount for around 2 years and iv been snorting them a half in the morning noon and night but now im on a 2 week detox from the doctor i have 1 more week on 0.4 then a week on 0.2 then off and the anxiety levels have went through the roof just thinking about it as i will admit im scared of rattling from subs.what im going to do is go on the kratom for the next 2 weeks and try to keep the dose as low as possible and jump off that rather than the bupe,iv no choice now,but i hope you have come down or fully by now if not i fully understand