tmdoca
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2011
- Messages
- 69
So I know sometimes people experience “thought loops” while on psychedelics. I’m the only one of my friends who says they’ve experienced them, so I figured I’d share my thoughts here. So my understanding of thought loops is that they are basically a chain of thought that keeps repeating itself when you are tripping. I’ve experienced them on many psychs, and I’ve noticed some different ways in which my thought loops have occurred.
I’ve always wondered about thought loops, what causes them and what they really consist of. After some careful thought and observation, I think I can break them down into two types: intrinsic and extrinsic. Extrinsic loops are perpetuated by external stimuli, while intrinsic loops are perpetuated by the content of the loops themselves. Both, I think (at least in my case), are due to a decrease in executive functioning while tripping. I’ll explain that later.
-I’ll start with extrinsic thought loops:
They are distinct from intrinsic just as the name describes it, they are caused by/perpetuated by conditions outside of the actual thoughts themselves. An example would be like this. Maybe I am tripping in my room, and I want to use my roommates computer to listen to music. I don’t know the password to boot it up, so I decide to walk across the street to the house he is visiting and ask him. However, as I’m out the door, I see my mailbox, and I suddenly remember that I got a very important letter I put in my dresser earlier that I haven’t read yet. Deciding this is very important, I turn back to my house to read the letter. Once I’ve returned to my house, the familiar setting reminds me how much I wanted music, and so I start to go back to the neighbors to get the password. Once again I see the mailbox, I head back, remember I want music, head out again, see the mailbox, head back, etc. The result is me walking in and out of my house endlessly.
In that case, it was the change in setting and an external cue (extrinsic) that would force one provocative thought over the other. Each provocative thought led to the cue for the other provocative thought. Wanting music led to seeing the mailbox, going to get the letter led to being reminded I wanted music. This is a crude example, because generally my thought loops of this type only make sense at the time. But I think the example I gave is a good sobered-up version.
-Now for intrinsic thought loops:
They are more common for me, and really don’t make any sense besides at the time. As opposed to the environment leading to a reverse in the “loop”, it is the material of the loop itself that leads back to the beginning. I think that the logical elements of this loop (assuming the premise of them is something real, not some trip-space logic) are easy to understand when not high. Also, when you aren’t high, you are able to see all the elements of the loop at once and accept them. I think the closest sober analogy to the intrinsic thought loop is like this:
I can’t get a job because I don’t have experience because I can’t get a job because I don’t have experience because I can’t get a job….
This is where executive functioning comes in. Your short term memory gets suppressed to the point that after reaching a new point in the logic chain, you’ve forgotten the previous step. When this step is reached again, it feels new (possibly also from the heightened sense of novelty experienced on psychs) and so you try to follow that logic until you reach the other step in the chain, which also feels new again, and so on and so forth. There was no external stimulus that caused the loop to change direction, only the content of the loop itself. My “intrinsic loops” where never that short which encouraged me to forget how I got to the previous step.
Unfortunately for me, I can never actually remember the substance of my thought loops, which is why I had to provide these sobered examples. The only way I can get a view of what was going on with these loops is if they happened while I had a song on repeat or something. Then, the mood of that song gives me a idea on how they “felt.” So maybe some of you guys have a better grasp on making these things tangible?
I’ve always wondered about thought loops, what causes them and what they really consist of. After some careful thought and observation, I think I can break them down into two types: intrinsic and extrinsic. Extrinsic loops are perpetuated by external stimuli, while intrinsic loops are perpetuated by the content of the loops themselves. Both, I think (at least in my case), are due to a decrease in executive functioning while tripping. I’ll explain that later.
-I’ll start with extrinsic thought loops:
They are distinct from intrinsic just as the name describes it, they are caused by/perpetuated by conditions outside of the actual thoughts themselves. An example would be like this. Maybe I am tripping in my room, and I want to use my roommates computer to listen to music. I don’t know the password to boot it up, so I decide to walk across the street to the house he is visiting and ask him. However, as I’m out the door, I see my mailbox, and I suddenly remember that I got a very important letter I put in my dresser earlier that I haven’t read yet. Deciding this is very important, I turn back to my house to read the letter. Once I’ve returned to my house, the familiar setting reminds me how much I wanted music, and so I start to go back to the neighbors to get the password. Once again I see the mailbox, I head back, remember I want music, head out again, see the mailbox, head back, etc. The result is me walking in and out of my house endlessly.
In that case, it was the change in setting and an external cue (extrinsic) that would force one provocative thought over the other. Each provocative thought led to the cue for the other provocative thought. Wanting music led to seeing the mailbox, going to get the letter led to being reminded I wanted music. This is a crude example, because generally my thought loops of this type only make sense at the time. But I think the example I gave is a good sobered-up version.
-Now for intrinsic thought loops:
They are more common for me, and really don’t make any sense besides at the time. As opposed to the environment leading to a reverse in the “loop”, it is the material of the loop itself that leads back to the beginning. I think that the logical elements of this loop (assuming the premise of them is something real, not some trip-space logic) are easy to understand when not high. Also, when you aren’t high, you are able to see all the elements of the loop at once and accept them. I think the closest sober analogy to the intrinsic thought loop is like this:
I can’t get a job because I don’t have experience because I can’t get a job because I don’t have experience because I can’t get a job….
This is where executive functioning comes in. Your short term memory gets suppressed to the point that after reaching a new point in the logic chain, you’ve forgotten the previous step. When this step is reached again, it feels new (possibly also from the heightened sense of novelty experienced on psychs) and so you try to follow that logic until you reach the other step in the chain, which also feels new again, and so on and so forth. There was no external stimulus that caused the loop to change direction, only the content of the loop itself. My “intrinsic loops” where never that short which encouraged me to forget how I got to the previous step.
Unfortunately for me, I can never actually remember the substance of my thought loops, which is why I had to provide these sobered examples. The only way I can get a view of what was going on with these loops is if they happened while I had a song on repeat or something. Then, the mood of that song gives me a idea on how they “felt.” So maybe some of you guys have a better grasp on making these things tangible?
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