Experiment: Threshold doses of DXM for motivation. e.g., 100-200mg daily. Harmful?

[MrKitty2]

I have done this but my doses ended up creeping higher and higher because I do like the low dose high as well as the high dose, I cant stick to med regimes very well. I also ended up taking at least a 1gram a day about a year, I definetly remember the "autopilot" somehow i kept a job and such, but people didnt know what the fuck I was on, the side effects confused people.
This also reminds me of Terence Mckenna and taking lose amounts of psilocybe mushrooms in your diet every day.

 

[pharmakos]

Now I *highly* doubt DXM produces antidepressant effects the same way Ketamine does.

could you expand on this thought a bit more?



phew, i propose that you try this regimen for 7 to 10 days, same as the ketamine regimen, and see if it produces a lasting antidepressant effect akin to ketamine's lasting antidepressant effect. i think 120mg is perhaps too high of a dose however.

the only major problem that comes to mind with this idea of yours, phew, is due to the fact that dxm is supposedly either a serotonin releaser or a serotonin reuptake inhibitor (i've never seen a definite answer... perhaps its both?). either way, discontinuing a dextromethorphan therapy will probably lead to the same rebound depression that occurs upon discontinuing SSRIs and the like.

 

[atara]

120mg again.

I'm more imaginative, creative. It feels as if my ordinary thoughts are now DXM thoughts. For a long time, I've believed that DXM trips and regular doses only differ in intensity. The visuals and thoughts are the same, but on low doses it's in the back of your mind. Higher doses immerse you in your own mind.

Ambitions are floating through my mind. I have images of myself doing incredible things and gaining recognition, but a lot of it is rooted in fantasy. During the first few hours, it's like a shift in thinking but not a buzz.

How long have you been at this / what's your current regimen?

 

[Jamshyd]

@tnw: For more info I recommend you check out the thread in the Advanced Drug Discussion forum re: the antidepressant mechanism behind Ketamine thread. There I posted both my thoughts and sort of documented one therapeutic session I happened to be going through when the article came out.

But for short, Ketamine does several things, but its beneficial effects appear to be due to the activation of some system. I would not tie it to any neurotransmitter, but it does seem like K's most beneficial effects are channel-blockage and cholinergic, as these effects are "rekindled" with gabapentin (or better: gabapentin plus nicotine).

DXM, besides being the right type of NMDA-antagonist to produce dissociative effects, seems to be otherwise utterly different in its mechanism of action and, as you noted, appears to have a notable serotonergic component which K completely lacks.

I personally strongly suspect that Ketamine's general-anaesthesia might in fact produce interesting, unexpected secondary effects when used for long at low doses. I find Nitrous may be the same if it lasted longer. DXM, on the other hand, is not anaesthetic (and it never worked for me).

Still, I could be very wrong about all of this.

 

[phew]

phew, i propose that you try this regimen for 7 to 10 days, same as the ketamine regimen, and see if it produces a lasting antidepressant effect akin to ketamine's lasting antidepressant effect. i think 120mg is perhaps too high of a dose however.

120 mg felt low, but it had the desired effects. Now I'm not getting the desired effects, and I'm noticing a change in my behavior. The lethargy has returned. I think the problem is either that DXM has no serious value in this matter (except every now and then) or that I have to space out the doses.

I'm going to see what happens when I dose throughout the day. The dosing is going to be 30mg every 2 hours.

the only major problem that comes to mind with this idea of yours, phew, is due to the fact that dxm is supposedly either a serotonin releaser or a serotonin reuptake inhibitor (i've never seen a definite answer... perhaps its both?). either way, discontinuing a dextromethorphan therapy will probably lead to the same rebound depression that occurs upon discontinuing SSRIs and the like.

Honestly, I think the therapeutic effects aren't consistent and go away after repeated dosing, no matter how minor. Now I believe that it's only if you've had no DXM for a while that you get this "good hangover/afterglow."

At first, everything was great and I got a lot done. But after that, it's been same old same old but slightly dissociated.

How long have you been at this / what's your current regimen?

Since the day I started this thread. The 23rd. The first time I took it at night. Which was a mistake. DXM keeps you up. So I skipped a day. Then I dosed again in the morning on the 25th. Then I dosed again earlier this morning. I will finally dose again tomorrow morning. But I intend to space out the doses.

I'm going to try the repeated dosing tomorrow, but at this point, I can't see much benefit from continuing this. DXM might work as a one-time pick me up, but it doesn't seem to mimic daily low dose acid or something like Jamshyd's regime.

But I'm not 100% sure yet... DXM trips are different depending on how you dose. Unfortunately, I didn't set this up properly. I should have started dosing in the morning and spacing out the doses from the very beginning.

If anyone else wants to try, they might succeed where I've failed. Might being the key word.

But for short, Ketamine does several things, but its beneficial effects appear to be due to the activation of some system. I would not tie it to any neurotransmitter, but it does seem like K's most beneficial effects are channel-blockage and cholinergic, as these effects are "rekindled" with gabapentin (or better: gabapentin plus nicotine).

DXM, besides being the right type of NMDA-antagonist to produce dissociative effects, seems to be otherwise utterly different in its mechanism of action and, as you noted, appears to have a notable serotonergic component which K completely lacks.

I personally strongly suspect that Ketamine's general-anaesthesia might in fact produce interesting, unexpected secondary effects when used for long at low doses. I find Nitrous may be the same if it lasted longer. DXM, on the other hand, is not anaesthetic (and it never worked for me).

Still, I could be very wrong about all of this.

I feel that you could be very right. Really, DXM doesn't seem suited for this kind of use. The lack of boredom and increased motivation might be some kind of manic side effect now that I think about it. Not something inherent in DXM.

(I'm a little angry at myself for not doing this in a more scientific manner. Ugh)

 

[ikkyu]

It's too bad there isn't any sort of instant-DXM-afterglow chemical out there, as the afterglow is the only component of the DXM experience that I found useful or enjoyable. I was hoping your experiment would at least come close to this, but alas. Sounds like a medicinal ketamine regimen might be the only way to approach this.

Still, I'm tempted to experiment with Salvia divinorum in a similar manner, since I found the antidepressant effects to last for days, even weeks, after even the most horrifying experiences. I'm thinking very low doses on a semi-regular basis, but it'll be a while before I work out exactly what angle I want to approach this from. My last few attempts with it were at medium-high doses, both oral and smoked, and left me feeling wonderful, grounded and connected all at once for quite some time afterward.

 

[psood0nym]

It's too bad there isn't any sort of instant-DXM-afterglow chemical out there, as the afterglow is the only component of the DXM experience that I found useful or enjoyable.

There sort of is. But there's a big problem with it. Namely, that I'm the only one out of three others who have tried the combination and gotten so much out of it.

It's not a single drug, but a combination: DXM and ondansetron (12mg or higher).

Anyone who wants to is welcome to give it a shot. Just know that it's unlikely to be what you hoped because the reaction is complex and seems to vary radically by individual.

 

[tBirdee]

on-dance-tron

 

[psood0nym]

^When I form my electo-dance troupe that will be our name.

It's not so much of a "DXM afterglow" pill so much as it's (DXM afterglow)^3

 

[pharmakos]

Still, I'm tempted to experiment with Salvia divinorum in a similar manner, since I found the antidepressant effects to last for days, even weeks, after even the most horrifying experiences. I'm thinking very low doses on a semi-regular basis, but it'll be a while before I work out exactly what angle I want to approach this from. My last few attempts with it were at medium-high doses, both oral and smoked, and left me feeling wonderful, grounded and connected all at once for quite some time afterward.

i often say that the anti-depressant effect of salvia is because afterwards, no matter how shitty life is, you can always say "well, at least i'm not on salvia divinorum right now."

i usually say it in a joking matter, but there might actually be some truth to that statement.

 

[lazydullard]

I've done a similar expirement with a sub-threshold (non-high) dose of dxm. It was also 100mg, but I weigh 115kg. Anyway, it was a failure for me as well.

 

[mecaib]

A sustained DXM afterglow would be a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to get an afterglow, except after a large dose.

The afterglow can be even more enlightening than the primary high. I can't remember any time when my mind was so full of light... It's like switching all the lights in a house on at once. It's the ability to see all the layers of consciousness at the same time, as a bright cloud. You can arrange the important thoughts in a queue. If I could sustain that state indefinitely, there would be no need for any other drugs, as I believe it to be as close to a perfect state of mind as can be achieved this side of death.

If ketamine therapy is anything like that, sign me up!

 

[kamashankara]

dude I feel you so much on this. I have so much extraneous shit kicking around in my head usually but I've found that afterglows help me prioritize and make me more efficient. about to start a 120 mg regimen today. kudos to NMDA antagonism

 

[Dondante]

Here's a report that may be of interest to the OP: (DXM / 60mg daily) -- I took DXM every day for a year. This is my story.

Keep in mind that DXM likely functions primarily as an SSRI at lowish doses (e.g. 60 mg)...possibly with some effect on the norepi transporter as well. I suspect that there would be minimal NMDA antagonism at that level, but who knows...maybe very low level NMDA antagonism potentiated the antidepressant effect that MDAO noticed. My guess is that negative effects would be increasingly likely with repeated dosing at higher doses.

 

[psood0nym]

A word of caution: back when I was using DXM and ondansetron maybe three times a week for a couple of months, during my "Summer of Dissociation," I got brain zaps after I stopped (pure powder, BTW). They were fairly persistent and found myself doing the combo as an excuse to make them stop. Dosing again only made them stop for a couple days at most, though. It took a week of 100 mg doses every other day and then another couple weeks without using until they dissipated. There have been others who have reported brain zaps after DXM use, though it doesn't seem to be too common (then again, using DXM daily isn't too common, and using with ondansetron less so [though interestingly I was emailed an advertisement for a DXM/5HT3 antagonist psyche medication was recently developed to treat, I think, mania from another bluelighter -- can't remember what it was called though]).

Brain zaps are often reported after SSRI cessation, and I think the same underlying consequences from ceasing frequent serotonin reuptake inhibition are probably at work when ceasing a frequent DXM regimen. My experience was using doses around 600 mg, but I could imagine even 100 mg doses causing far more persistent brain zaps upon cessation if I used them daily for months/years. Generally the longer the SSRI use, the longer one needs to taper to avoid withdrawal effects.