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Opioids Experiment Thead - New Formulation Oxycodone Extraction

Acetone

Yeah I got rid of the acetone that was soaking the milled OP. Damit, so your saying I can still eat the milled OP still? Its 3 80's worth so I don't really want to throw it out.



 
You were supposed to keep the solution... it had a lot of oxycodone dissolved in it. That was a big mistake to throw out.

NOw since you got rid of it though, there is still free oxycodone in the powder. Make sure it is dry and doesnt smell like acetone and eat it.

snowboardin522 said:
Yeah I got rid of the acetone that was soaking the milled OP. Damit, so your saying I can still eat the milled OP still? Its 3 80's worth so I don't really want to throw it out.
Click to expand...
 
so i put half a milled OP80 in the oven for about 5 min just under 300 degrees came out golden yellow
NO gelling when added to water
it dissolves! I also tried the microwave method but i did not do it enough and it still gelld

i also put half one roughly chopped in everclear and half chopped in plain old h20 for an overnight extraction 18 hours to be exact.

we shall see how this goes.
 
Swim previously posted a table comparing in detail the ingredients of OC's with the ingredients of OP's, along with a suggestion for a full extraction procedure that does not use dangerous solvents like acetone or MEK

Because this site does not support either the TABLE bbcode or HTML, swim is including a link to that post:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143749

Here is the post without the table:

If the chimp swim's friend met on the way to the Bronx Zoo was correct, the reason that the microwave/freezer process works well for some people but not as well for others may have to do with how different microwave ovens act upon the combination of BHT and oxidizable components of the OP. Getting rid of the BHT may make the process more deterministic. A workable procedure might look like:

  • Mix powdered pills into a volatile liquid fat, and mix thoroughly.
  • Let the solids separate out.
  • Drain the fat, which should now contain the dissolved BHT (drain just the fat, not the remaining solids)
  • Let any volatile fat remaining in the solids evaporate (maybe hurrying it along with heat)
  • Oxidize, either using heat or with hydrogen peroxide. If the latter, let it evaporate.

    Some people may consider themselves done at this point. Others may continue as described here:

    The remaining powder should (thoretically) no longer gel up, and all of the oxy should now easily dissolve in water. The result of evaporating such a solution after solids are removed from it may be significantly smaller than with OC's, as there is no longer any lactose to be dissolved together with the oxy, so it may be even more important than before to use an "open-air siphon" rather than filters to separate out the solids from such a solution.
  • Mix remaining solids with hot water, stirring thoroughly. (Don't worry about the heat. The melting point of oxycodone is much higher than water's boiling point.) Cool to a bit above freezing, and either remove the liquid from the solids with an open-air siphon (preferred), or pour what's left through a filter

Neither Swim nor Swim's friend have any OP's to try this out with (we just don't want to see people turning to heroin), so please use this info to brainstorm and/or report results of experimenting with it.

Here are the OC/OP 80 Inactive Ingredient Differences:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143749

[ The table comparing the ingredients was here ]
TABLE

Update: A google search shows that BHT dissolves in Limonene, the main component of both lemon oil and orange oil, and Amazon sells quarts of "Erath Earth" brand orange oil for a very reasonable price. They also have "aromatherapy" lemon and orange oils for not-so-reasonable prices.

Orange oil is sold as both a cleaning solvent and as a "non-toxic insecticide". In pure form, it is a skin irritant, so it should probably be handled with gloves.

Note: Stated briefly, an "open air siphon" is basically a string with good capillary action that permits liquids to travel upward from one container and then downward into another container without also transporting any solids that may have been loosely suspended in the source container - the five inch long central portion of an Oral-B "superfloss" string works great for this -- it's more efficient than using a filter, there is less waste than with a filter, and unlike a filter it doesn't get clogged, and in fact can be re-used many times!

There is a (perhaps too) detailed writeup on open-air siphons at:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141498&name=#8
 
directions to study

Please recall:

The old formulation also contained both PEG 400 and hypromellose, but did not have the gelling problem that the new formula has.

The old formula also had stearyl alcohol and talc as filler solids. When the old OC was heated in sufficiently hot water, these two joined with other ingredients (like the hypromellose and ammonio methacrylate copolymer) to become a removable brittle plastic like substance that was easily removed. The ability to do this again could be an important sub-goal.

It would seem that the biggest deals are the presence of polyethylene oxide, and the LACK of stearyl alcohol and talc.

One might first try getting rid of the PEO, which requires getting rid of the BHT.

If that is not sufficient, additionally ADDING talc (aka talcum powder) might help by "drying" out the hypromellose, although swim does not think that would be necessary since the old formula had hypromellose as well. On the other hand, they could have increased the quantity of hypromellose (and/or PEG 400).

Just swim's tuppence.
 
All the wheels are spinning!!

With respect to my process posted on friday:

Keep in mind that BHT is highly soluble in DSMO. Something like 30mgs/ml. The new op formula may contain 2.5mgs in every 80mg pill. Very very little is needed to dissolve the antioxidant.

i also would add some baking soda to the hydrogen peroxide to make a more potent oxidizer.

Dont discount the cloud temps of these polymers either and make sure when your adding the liquid oxidizer the its at least 90C.

** after the DSMO step your only going to be adding a couple mls of the liquid oxidizer so not to supersaturate the material. Youll know the oxidation has occurred when a small amount of gas is released. Keep adding the 90C liquid oxidizer (one drop at a time) until no more gas is produced.

I use DSMO to dissolve the BHT because it contains no water or alcohol and should not react with oxy or polymers.

Alternatively, at room temp after DSMO. Simply add drops water to the op powder and let it do its gel thing. When complete then and only then perform the oxidation step with hp03 and baking soda.

I'm not sure, but full oxidation may not occur until the polymers are completely hydrated.

Either way, oxidation WILL break up these polymers. It's just a matter of dialing in which oxidizers are safest and most effective.

Aerindae, I think you have a great shot and im interested how you are making out. Please let me know at [email protected]
 
Posts

<Edited out by myself because I was being a class A jerk>
 
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Moriarty, last I checked, this "site" wasn't one entity, but a group of disparate posters. You have people like me, for instance, who have read every single word (and even looked up the chemical processes I didn't understand) of *everyone's* posts and until such time as each poster presents himself as a hopeless buffoon, I assume everyone has something to add, even if it's just to be a horrible warning (haha).

I am not an unintelligent woman, and yet I have found your posts to be quite dense, chemically challenging, and lacking in conversational tone. None of that is required, of course, however do not be surprised when people are put off by it. What possible response could someone like me have to one of your posts full of highly-specialized lingo,long strings of chemical names, and so on?

Why assume no one is reading your posts? I think it's more likely that people are reading them, as I have, and going "Dang, that guy really sounds like he knows his shit, but there's no WAY I could access 1/10 of those chemicals, let alone have the advanced knowledge to work with them safely....now where was that post about Sour Patch Kids?"

Now put on your big boy pants and don't be such a delicate flower. Who are you to decide who here "deserves" what information? You don't know MY story, f/x; what if I have spent the last 30 years ministering to blind leper babies and am only able to continue my important work if I can extract oxyHCI easily and safely? But no, you're going to leave all the poor leper babies (blind) in the dust, all because no one stroked your fragile ego enough? I don't like that.

(sorry for the OT, someone please move if this is inappropriate and insufficiently amusing to override the OT)
 
Hey Moriarty,

I am sorry to hear you go. Just because a few random burger flipping pill junkies pop in here and say incoherent redudant bullshit, doesn't mean people aren't reading and appreciating your posts and research. A lot of the things you write about are a bit sophisticated for the layman to reply and contribute from it, but those who are scientific get a lot out of it, people like me get everything they can from it.

I am not a chemist, and I dont have a chemist background of any sort beyond basic college chem courses and a high iq & willingness to learn. I have tried my absolute best to contribute what I could (boiling points, solubility, purdue documents, experiment details) and wasted a lot of my money & time & drugs on failed experiments. I appreciate the research contributions some other people have contrbuted and impressed me with as well.

Please don't be discouraged from a few morons who don't read the whole post history---- I've posted the names of solvents and percentages of released oxycodone from Purdue to have someone post 2 posts later "HEY EVERYONE! PUrdue has a website that says simple and complex solvents remove oxycodone! If we could only figure out what they were ! DERRRRRRRRRRR"....

I appreciate having someone knowledgeable like you on the team. Come back!! lets figure this out together. We cant filter out the retards, but I assure you that smart people are listening and trying to contribute, and appreciating highly the info you share. I know if you were sniffing 95% oxycodone, you wouldn't be so frustrated as you were in that post... Obviously, there is more work to be done! =)
 
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Microwave for 5 min, freeze for 2, grind it with a dremel, microwave it for another 5, then freeze for another 12 min. Works for me, i would recommend eating it but snortin it works as well
 
Apologies

Sorry. I don't know why this site infuriates me so. In truth, I don't think I have ever, in 10 years of posting, posted such a mean post. I am generally a very likeable guy. I think I am just out of my element here...that and I didn't even remember posting...4mg alprazalam and too many drinks and a can somehow (still a mystery to me as I am generally a very polite individual). Here's what I did that DID work and then I am leaving.

To the method of choice:

There are others but this one I knew would work right off the bat. I used large amounts of distilled water to overwhelm the gelatin effects. I used a liter of water and simply let the solvent (water) extract for a day (well, day and night...24 hours). Filtered. Made solution ~5% NaOH solution by adding 50 grams of NaOH. Shook the whole solution in a 4 liter separatory funnel with toluene and separated. Kept the toluene/free-base oxycodone solution. Extracted two (2) more times as per industry standard. Pooled the three (3) extracts and washed once with saturated NaCl solution (probably not necessary). Stripped the solvent off under vacuum (you can just evaporate it but striping it off with a vacuum was faster for me). The free-base oxycodone was dissolved in 50ml acetone (I am sure many solvents will work but I used this one because it kept showing up in literature for forming the hydrochloride salt of oxycodone). Generally in this situation I would generate anhydrous (dry) hydrogen chloride gas but opiates have an epoxide ring and acids are good for cleaving this ring so I chose to titrate carefully with 31% hydrochloric acid dripwise until the pH was ~6.5 (error towards greater than 6.5 rather than lower but the solution must only become lower than 7 in pH). Acetone was evaporated off leaving ~760mg of oxycodone hydrochloride from ten (10) 80mg oxycodone 80mg Op tablets.

If you all are looking for a solvent to simply extract by recrystallization (solvent extraction poured through a filter to leave the undissolved material behind in the filter) I'd look into polar aprotic solvents. I have dimethylformamide, tetrahydrofuran, dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO). I didn't try it in these. I tried a polar protic solvent, methanol, and got poor results. Polyethylene glycol 400 is soluble in alcohols like methanol but residual water content might have caused this as well (most store bought solvents contain way more water than one might imagine). Anyway, if I were to try methanol again it would be dried with magnesium sulfate or calcium chloride first). Anyway, DMSO would be an excellent choice but it has a high boiling point meaning anyone that uses this needs distillation equipment and a vacuum pump. Not ideal for most.

There are pseudoephedrine formulations that have very similar adulterants (PEG 400, hypromellose...many also contain candilla and/or carnuba wax). I only extracted pseudoephedrine from one of these formulations once but the method I used was from pseudoephedrine pills that had ALL the same contaminates in the tablets (they also had PEG 400, methylhydroxy propylcellulose (hypromellose), magnesium sterate and I believe BHT).

1. For 20 tablets containing 120mg of pseudoephedrine hydrochloride was ground in a coffee grinder with added:
- 4 grams dried epsom salts (magnesium sulfate)
- 2 grams NaCl (non-iodized table salt).

2. Then 70ml of isopropyl alcohol were added (it was 91% that was dried with dried epsom salts) and 70ml naptha and the NaCl, MgSO4 (epsom salts), powderized tablets were heated to boil for a few minutes

3. The mixture was filtered while still hot

4. 50ml xylene was added and brought to ~105C to liberate the solution of isopropyl alcohol

5. Once gone it is allowed to cool but not until room temperature and filtered

The naptha and residual xylene were removed by pouring some M.E.K. over the filter containing the pseudoephedrine (acetone might work but I think oxycodone hydrochloride has some solubility in acetone).

6. M.E.K. was evaporated leaving very clean powdery (like powdered sugar) pseudoephedrine hydrochloride.

This worked for pseudoephedrine tablets with all the same adulterants and a few more. It's a good analogy as the same adulterants were used for the exact same purpose. On large scale extractions it'll work exactly the same.

Anyway, it's a little involved but will work.

The acid/base extraction I did with large amounts of water worked even better and for OP tablets but that's a little involved. I am going to leave this site now with an open apology to you all for my behavior and out of shear embarrassment. Good luck.

Moriarty

P.S. A detailed methodology for the extraction came from the rhodium archives and the article was called "Straight to E". I used it with the adaptions some short cuts years ago pretty close to exactly how I said above with excellent results.
 
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I've been using an acid base extraction similar to moriarty's. My first step is different, though the method he used did cross my mind. The bonus of this method is with some patience during the seperation phase you can achieve a high level of purity. My yield weights have been more than the listed API weights, which means not every excipient has been removed, but I have removed the peo since there is not even a hint of gelling. There must be one or more inactives that had very similar solubilities. I would have thought by going from the freebase back to the
chloride salt that it wouldn't be possible, but there is no other explanation.

Actually, after looking more closely our methods are not similar after all. We have one or two steps in common. Both are acid base extractions though.
 
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I'll try more of these "experiments" when I re-up Friday.

So far I've tried sucking on them, which wasnt that good. Tasted awful and took too long.

Whats better, grinding it up and cooking it, or letting them dissolve in like Orange Juice?
 
Get a coffee pot, put a small amount of water in it (put about half a cup), bring it to a boil, drop your pill in the boiling water. Let the pill turn into a liquid gel type of substance then add about a tablespoon of baking powder in. Drop a few ice cubes into the coffee pot, stir, let cool, strain, and out should come your OP crack rock. Hope this helps.

<<
>>
:)jkbtw.
 
Moriarty said:
Here's what I did that DID work and then I am leaving.

To the method of choice:

There are others but this one I knew would work right off the bat. I used large amounts of distilled water to overwhelm the gelatin effects. I used a liter of water and simply let the solvent (water) extract for a day (well, day and night...24 hours). Filtered. Made solution ~5% NaOH solution by adding 50 grams of NaOH. Shook the whole solution in a 4 liter separatory funnel with toluene and separated. Kept the toluene/free-base oxycodone solution. Extracted two (2) more times as per industry standard. Pooled the three (3) extracts and washed once with saturated NaCl solution (probably not necessary). Stripped the solvent off under vacuum (you can just evaporate it but striping it off with a vacuum was faster for me). The free-base oxycodone was dissolved in 50ml acetone (I am sure many solvents will work but I used this one because it kept showing up in literature for forming the hydrochloride salt of oxycodone). Generally in this situation I would generate anhydrous (dry) hydrogen chloride gas but opiates have an epoxide ring and acids are good for cleaving this ring so I chose to titrate carefully with 31% hydrochloric acid dripwise until the pH was ~6.5 (error towards greater than 6.5 rather than lower but the solution must only become lower than 7 in pH). Acetone was evaporated off leaving ~760mg of oxycodone hydrochloride from ten (10) 80mg oxycodone 80mg Op tablets.
Click to expand...

I would truly hope that you would reconsider your decision to leave.

I have not been a member long but have been around here for a relatively long time and due to the importance of this issue...

In short Moriarty, your in depth intelligence and wisdom is needed here. I personally find your thoughts, theories and experience extremely valuable (no doubt that many others do as well).

Bluelight is a unique repository of knowledge combining intelligence with a hands-on street smart wisdom... this is rarely found else where.

If intelligent people such as yourself, keep allowing a few arrogant ----s to drive you away, can you imagine the repercussions to the over-all information here? (rhetorical)

I attempted to send you a PM but my account is restricted (due to not having reached Bluelighter status)

Yes, there are some here that seem to be too lazy and arrogantly feel that their comment(s) supersedes all other member’s possible idea/comments found in the prior pages of this thread; as if the idea, comment or theory could not have possibly been posted before. This minority usually state something to the affect of: ""I don't have the time to read or research through this entire thread/comments or gave this much thought but I think I know the answer...""

Please do not let this type of arrogant ignorance drive you away.

I have a question on your first method of choice, please let me know if you are still here and would kindly help answer a few details.

Thank you for your time & help.

P.S. Jaystyle, your work & this thread should be highly commended, thank you.
I hope you will forgive me for straying a bit off topic but it was in interest to the thread as a whole.
 
more please....

First of all, sorry for not responding for so long!! I was without internet for a bit. But at this point, wow you all have come so far. The "cola trial" seems so amateur now lol.

lowrider...please give more deets!! How long did you soak it? How small were the pieces? How fast did it hit you? hmmm....wonder what it is in cranberry juice that's doing the job. I know it's been said that theoretically, that if we soak our OP's in virtually any liquid for long enough, it will work, but you just made it sound like this was fast-acting. I could be wrong in my assumption though, that's why I asked for more details. :D

I should also add that when I did the cola experiment (pg 9 of this thread) I definitely gave the impression that the slimy goopy stuff that settles on the top tastes awful, when in fact, it doesn't at all. I didn't really realize until I read your post, but it doesn't even have a taste. I'm someone who has some serious texture issues, and I think that's why I thought it tasted so foul, but it was just the texture.

On a side note, I just got my script today, and they were OC's!!!!!!!=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D=D I was just so excited, because they just crush up sooooo nicely. *sigh* sorry, not tryin to rub it in, but damn those OP's are nuts!! You have to work so hard for your buzz now days. lol. But one great thing....when I got the, I was talking to the pharms and techs, they said that nearly every single customer who gets their Oxy's from this specific CVS, has called in and complained about the potency and effectiveness of the OP's. And in my community, I can assure you that probably 80% of these people are legitimate pain patients who are keeping them and taking as directed. So...yes, keep complaining to the big guys. Hopefully at some point enough will be enough, and they'll either fix them (and hopefully OVER-compensate lmao)(wouldn't that be wonderful?!?!) or just go back to the old ones. Either way, keep up the good work for the cause!! And Moriarty...c'mon man...don't leave just because of a few morons. You'll have that on every forum...people who just post without reading. Some of that really is stupidity, and a lot of it is just laziness. I'm the opposite...I love reading all of the posts, but I rarely post anything myself. With your posts, I'm always fascinated, and like Jaystyle, I try to take what I can from it. But I also have to agree a bit with Clementines Ghost...your tone can be a tad intimidating, and you have to realize that not all of us have your education and experience. And while I consider myself to be fairly intelligent, I have found it quite difficult to keep up with a good majority of your posts, as far as your vocabulary and the way you explain things. But I'm incredibly impressed with your research and findings. And I, along with many others that have been following this thread, would agree that you have contributed enormously to the cause! So, while I may not be able to comprehend everything, I certainly do appreciate your work.


lowrider6967 said:
goo turned dark purple,texture of a piece of rubber NOT SNOTTY."IMPORTANT PART"no taste!
Click to expand...
 
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brush up on ur acronyms bra!! The jkbtw at the end of the post wasn't a signature...thanks for playing though one less thing I have to try.

Anyone's thoughts on throwing dry ice into the mix somewhere. Not as a solvent (obviously) but in the multiple freeze thaw cycle theory? The -20c can't possibly be good for those polymers.

I've also pretty much determined that I'm not too concerned about the extraction. Ideally id like to diffuse the matrix and prevent gelling when sniffed. (just like everyone else...I guess) if that comes with all kinds of riddled polymers so be it.

Now I'm going completely off page...SUPER GLUE?? (Prevents polymer hydration and "I PICKED THE WRONG DAY TO STOP SNIFFING GLUE") add benzos and you've got that triple threat theory we've all been looking for!! somehow? Just maybe. Please

Many sleepless nights. Ah well damarra's another day. Time to continue the staring contest with the back of my eyelids. I'll think of something....if I haven't already.

_zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Jkbtw
 
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