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exactly how the E1/E2 tests work...exactly...

  • Thread starter Thread starter theking
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theking

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Hi there,
I've read a bit on the E1/E2 tests, but was after some more specifics. What I'd like to know is exactly how these tests work.
Firstly, what happens if you have a pill with a combination of chemicals in it? Say, MDxx and speed? Which turn the reagent different colours. Does the reagent become a mixture of the two different colours?
Does the dominant chemical override this turning the reagent soley that colour? Or will the result be skewed towards the dominant colour (not completely one colour or the other, and not in the middle either, but rather closer towards the colour of the dominant chemcial, with hints of the other chiemical's colour)?
(If that all makes sense
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Secondly, I've seen some different info around as to what each test can identify.
One of them mentions herion, another one using the same reagent makes no mention of this, etc etc. The erowid faq on E testing has a rather extensive list of identifable substances. What I'm guessing here (And I think I read it somewhere), is that the tests test for a class of compounds rather than specific compounds, correct? And that the indetifable compounds listed are perhaps the most common ones found in each class.
eg, 2C-B...this is a phenethylamine, so if the test becomes the colour for 2C-B, does this mean 2C-B is present, or ANY phenethylamine? (Including DOB and DOM). I suspect this is the case. So acutally, the colours identify drug classes/families rather than indiviual compounds.
In this sense, the erowid faq listing lots of other compounds suggests that the colour change will be slightly different for each compound of a specific family. Which sounds like it would make sense.
Comments, suggestions, help?
Thanks,
Josh
 
ok now...
1.the reagents test for the predominant chemical in a pill. however mdma is rarely adulterated, there is no point adding adulterants into a high quality product. I have seen it before tho, speed and mdxx in a pill, and parts of the reagent go black and some go orange; ie. each chemical reacts differently with the reagent so two colors are seen.
2.the marquis reagent is a standard chemical combination of 90% sulphuric acid and 10% formaldahyde (some contain methanol to slow the reaction time). They all detect heroin/opiates as it is a standard reagent, however because there is no heroin in pill it is not really an issue to know about a heroin reaction. This being said there are many other compounds that test the same as heroin (pink/red) on dancesafes pill testing page that are not heroin. remember the marquis reagent is meant to be used as the initial reagent then based on that reaction you use other reagents to narrow down what the chemical could be.
3.2-CB goes green. from what i can gather from lists of marquis color reactions DOB/DOM goes a salmony color.
hope that helps.
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www.enlighten-hr.org - Enlighten Harm Reduction.
 
What about:
1) sodium nitroprusside (tests for secondary amines)
2) Mecke's reagent (selenious acid)... can't remember right now exactly what this tests for... but it's scrawled down here, and that *means* something...
 
the Hinsberg test using benzenesulfonyl chloride will also differentiate clearly between primary and secondary amines (which is of some use to what you're doing here), but it's too difficult for anyone inexperienced.
also, there's a test using iron(III) chloride and potassium thiosulfate that tests for ethers. this is is also useful to you.
Simon's test is a test for secondary amines. it's sodium nitroprusside (and sodium carbonate, as a buffer), which someone else mentioned.
Mecke reagent (selenious sulfuric acid): A positive Mecke test (green) occurs for a wide range of compounds which includes both indoles and furans, and anything with a phenolic oxygen (i.e. MDMA)
Mandelin's reagent (note spelling) is vanadyl sulfate. i couldn't find out what it does, but it's probably similar to Mecke's.
testing labs do not use the Marquis test to narrow down the possibilities, then go on testing with different reagents until you find out what chemical it is.
dancesafe's lab uses GC/MS (gas chromatography/mass spectrometry) which is way too complicated to explain somewhere like this=P the method inherently gives data on the proportions of the chemicals tested and therefore would allow the lab to determine the exact amount of every drug, filler, binder and dye in the pill; they just don't tell you.
one last thing i found when i was searching=)
in the august 1990 issue of the journal of chromatography, there's an article (hayakawa et al) that describes how to test for methamphetamine using bis(2,4,6-trichlorophenyl)oxalate and hydrogen peroxide.
huge respects to anyone who gets that. =0
 
now im going to get to the first question.
(yeah, sorry, this interests me. not even in a practical sense, it's just interesting chemistry. for a raver, anyway.)
how the test works
I have no idea. and i've looked everywhere. i *could* look up a journal from 1954 or something, but... naw.
*essentially*, this is what the test does:
the marquis reagent (sulfuric acid and formaldehyde) forms some kind of 'derivative' with the compound. basically this just means that one of them 'attaches' to it in some way; i *believe* it's the formaldehyde attaching at the nitrogen, but i'm not sure.
for various reasons the derivative compound is colored while the original sample is not. the color depends on several factors.
what this means
the marquis test *does* test for classes of compounds, not for specific chemicals. however these classes aren't as simple as "phenethylamines"...and you may not be able to tell the difference between the colors. a mixture of 2 compounds produces a correspondingly colored result.
also, a huge number of chemicals will test positive... hundreds of them.. as testing kits become more popular manufacturers may very easily find ways around them.. look at "question marks" on dancesafe to see an incredibly-fucking-dangerous example of that.
 
yep we've known that a fair few chemicals will fool Marquis, but how many of them will fool subsequents tests, such as Mandelin (thanks for the spelling)?
also the "questions marks" are a cocktail that also contains MDMA. pills like this have always existed, altho i admit this is a particularly horrendous one.
as we say in our litany of disclaimers while testingpills "this test may not show up other substances that are not dectected by this test, or are masked by other substances that are present".
possibly what we need are reagents that can detect k, dxm, meth etc, that wont react to MDxx, and wont be masked by it.
[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 04 May 2001).]
 
it would be possible to create a battery of tests that will reasonably exclude everything except MDMA.
hypothetically, this should do it:
1. a test for secondary amines that strictly yields no reaction with any primary or tertiary amines. this would exclude MDA (but not MDEA), DXM, PCP, heroin, cocaine, and a large number of other drugs.
2. a test which selectively identifies methylenedioxy groups over methoxy groups. these tests do exist. this is essential to identify MDMA vs. DXM and MDMA vs. PMA, which seem to be the most dangerous possibilities.
realistically, by testing with these correctly, you could conclude that the sample contained MDMA specifically. you may have a chance of finding MDEA as well.
other tests you could perform:
(when i say 'exclude' i mean 'if the test is positive, you know it's not pure MDMA because this is in here')
- a selective test for methoxy groups to exclude PMA and methoxy analogs of MDMA
- a test for thiols and thioethers to exclude 2-CT-7 and so on
- a test for fluoro and chloro groups, to exclude a large number of compounds including 2-CB, BZTPP and ketamine
- a test for hydroxy groups to exclude ephedrine
- a test for ketones, to exclude ketamine and caffeine
- some test for secondary amines where one N-linkage is made to a secondary carbon. this would exclude all phenethylamines that are not also amphetamines.
anyway, i think the most important tests are the first two i mentioned. most of the others are really only necessary in a very paranoid situation to identify combinations like MDMA + ketamine.
so...
in the real world, going by what test kits seem to be available, a Marquis test followed by a Mecke or Mandelin test is probably reasonably adequate in identifying MDMA. that is, it should isolate MDMA from all the other drugs i've seen listed on dancesafe.
btw, MDMA + anything will Marquis test as MDMA; it's an unfortunate side effect of the MDMA positive test being black.
the Mecke and Mandelin reagents are highly toxic (even more so than the Marquis) and even though the amounts here aren't too large, they have heavy metals that are very bad for the environment. a good argument for testing at parties. if dancesafe disposes of the waste properly that is.
last thing: i've never seen a test in real life, so everything i say is theoretical.
but i *have* done a number of qualitative tests for various compounds, so i know how damned ambiguous they are about 95% of the time.
 
now, cause im always so damn wordy..
johnboy..
reagents that detect K, DXM, meth, etc that react differently to MDxA:
K: ketones are fairly uncommon but not too difficult to test for. all the tests for ketones (semicarbazide, cyanide, etc) are more difficult than the Marquis test, for which k gives no result. ketones may or may not give an interesting result with Mecke's reagent.
DXM: DXM is a tertiary amine and a specific test for secondary amines would exclude it. same for BZP and TFMPP. and strychnine, for that matter.
meth: Mecke's reagent should test negative with meth but positive with MDMA.
as for tests which are *positive* with some undesirable but negative with MDMA.. tests that distinguish certain characteristics aren't chemically possible. like tertiary amines; they just don't react except under extreme conditions (the Marquis reagent IS extreme). some of the tests also won't work for practical reasons; a test for ephedrine (hydroxyl groups) may not work on pill scrapings because some kind of sugar is so likely to be present.
random thoughts
so, really, this is all incredibly complicated, and the end result is that it's essentially impossible to be *sure* you have MDMA. i think it's kind of ironic that people who do harder drugs like K or crystal can usually judge its purity as soon as they do a line, while i know very experienced etards that still get really weird ones once in a while.
in reality, it seems that even the adulterants in E are extremely dangerous if you combine them with real MDMA, or do ridiculous amounts (such as the deaths from 7 tabs of PMA). so there's more to harm reduction than pill testing (although i'm still an advocate of testing).
 
my blue dolphins test to straight purple then black and there is also a bright green line in there aswell.
no 2-cb like effects were noted during rolling. and the roll was the best/cleanest/no comedown/very dancy/very lovey dovey EVER!
reaction to ex test supreme was positive to mdma/mdea
what to conclude?
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If you think life is really good, wait till you hear the REMIX!
 
sorry for taking so long to answer.
the green appears within the first 3 seconds.
i.e. when the thing turns purple.
and ive tested on a ceramic plate. same one i use to test all the others and none gave me the green thing.
p.s. i wash and clean the platye between each pill tested...
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If you think life is really good, wait till you hear the REMIX!
 
ez test turns purple/black and green line
and ez test supreme turns purple/black
im the guy who got the first eztest all dripping and the manual and front sticker burnt
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i sent a scan of all that too
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but im telling you, experience wise, these are simply the best...
maybe the green is something else? other than 2c-b? new designer E thats better(or worse!!) what could possibly give out green from the ez test?
if i get my hands on a digycam ill take some photos of the whole reaction..
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If you think life is really good, wait till you hear the REMIX!
 
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