Even death can't make me stop...?

[footscrazy]

I'm feeling really conflicted and sad about this.

A couple of weeks ago I overdosed on oxycontin. My heart stopped, and it's just lucky my boyfriend woke up beside me and gave me cpr and saved my life. I stopped breathing twice but he brought me back each time.

I completely didn't see it coming. I had no inkling of it whatsoever. I had just come off a few weeks off opiates, but the dose wasn't ridiculously high. I felt fine after doing my last 40mg, not drowsy or sedated or how I think you should feel before you OD. It scares me how easy it would have been for me to die that night. I wouldn't have even known. I guess I just stupidly thought there would be some kind of warning or feeling before it happened.

It's given me a new respect - or actually just a fear of opiates. Prior to this I was confident in my drug use, I thought I knew how much I could take. I didn't think I had ever come close to OD. I have always been very reckless in my drug use. I've always pushed it a bit too far, but I know I don't actually want to die.

However since then I've still been using opiates daily. I've stopped using the harder opiates now and have been trying to taper with codeine, but apart from the last couple of days, I haven't actually tapered and have just kept using it daily to get high.

I plan to use heroin and oxy again. I mean, I haven't planned to quit forever, so I guess that means I plan to use. This really upsets me. I feel guilty that this experience hasn't been enough to make me stop. The thought of the people I'd leave behind really gets to me, and the high isn't worth dying for. That's why I feel so bad about not just saying, ok that's it, I'm stopping forever.

I am tearing myself up that I could be so selfish and reckless as to keep using. I don't know what the point of this thread is, but if anyone has any advice or support it would be much appreciated. I feel really shameful about this whole situation and even this thread makes me really uncomfortable.

 

[Darksidesam]

The only way and the best way to show your thanks for being made alive again, is to stop using them for good.

Do you use these to help you sleep by any chance?

 

[Cyc]

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Can you give us some idea of the dosage, the ROA and the amount of time involved in your overdose?

 

[Legerity]

Good to hear that you made it through Death in itself is not necessarily a motivating factor if life isn't considered worth maintaining. Aside from not wanting to hurt the people you care about, what matters to you?

 

[OpioPhyllis]

It sounds like you made an all-too-common mistake; taking a dose that would be normal had you not been off opiates for a while.

Do you really want to quit? Ask yourself this; do you want to quite for those around you or because you truly want to be done with opiates?

Trying to quit for other people quickly leads to relapse. But if you really want to WANT to quit, perhaps treatment may be the best option for you. If you are an "addict," then educating yourself on the disease can only empower you. I don't know if you are an addict or not--that's not my call. But I am so sorry that you are having a rough time.

 

[mds275]

Get yourself some narcan/naloxone and teach your boyfriend and anyone else around you how to use it. Depending on where you are, I can probably tell you where to go for some if you don't already know- you can PM me if you don't want to post your location. At the naloxone program, they can probably brainstorm some OD prevention techniques that would work well for you. Based on what you posted, though a few quick things come to mind- OpioPhyllis already made the good point about the risk of resuming a normal dose after a period of abstinence/reduced use. Also, have you lost weight? had major asthma/allergy/breathing problems? been sick? combined your oxy with alcohol or other sedatives? How's your liver doing? If you're taking a lot of codeine and are in the US where it is almost always combined with tylenol, it could be really stressing your liver- consider giving cold water extraction of the tylenol a try?
But, you actually posted for a different reason- feeling conflicted. Something that might help clarify your feelings is to make a table with four quadrants and write down the pros and cons of using and then the pros and cons of not using. I know this sounds a little stupid or clinical, but bear with me: I think we are socialized to think a lot about the CONS of using and the PROS of not using, but those reasons don't really help us understand the whys of our own individual current reality and focusing on those reasons seems to reinforce guilt, feeling shameful/stupid/hard-headed/reckless/self-centered/etc, etc. Being self reflective and honest with ourselves about the PROS of using and the CONS of not using is a good way to get a handle on the "why". Maybe from there you could identify one or two bullet points that you want to work/focus on? Just a thought...I hope it's some kind of useful for you. (Also, if this sounds like an interesting exercise, but you don't want to do it yourself, I bet that someone at an OD prev/naloxone program would be willing to work on it with you!)

 

[footscrazy]

Thanks everyone for the replies, I really do appreciate it.

The only way and the best way to show your thanks for being made alive again, is to stop using them for good.

Do you use these to help you sleep by any chance?

I don't use them to sleep. As for your first sentence...I'm not sure how to answer it. I don't know if you're right, and even if you are, I'm not sure what to do with it. I know there are benefits to stopping, I'm so aware of them. I know that it'd be the best way to prevent another OD. But I find it difficult to reach a point in my head where I say ok, that's it, I've finally reached a level where I can see enough is enough, I know I have to stop. I guess I've thought, or hoped, that an event like this would make me want to stop - or to get to the crux of it - make it easier to stop. I guess what is becoming more and more apparent is that there are no easy ways out and I'm going to have to do the hard work myself, and to be honest, I don't want to do it.

Can you give us some idea of the dosage, the ROA and the amount of time involved in your overdose?

I took 120mg of oxycontin over about 3 hours, snorted and plugged, as well as 10mg valium and a few beers. I rarely take benzos but I drink every day. I know as much as anything it was the combo of things that contributed rather than just the amounts.

Good to hear that you made it through Death in itself is not necessarily a motivating factor if life isn't considered worth maintaining. Aside from not wanting to hurt the people you care about, what matters to you?

Thankyou Legerity...What matters to me...I don't know, at the moment I don't have much in my life that makes me happy. I do hold hope though that my life will get better and will have meaning. I love bushwalking and plants, and I want to go back to uni and do my masters in horticulture, sustainable forestry/agriculture...anything in the environmental field. I would love a job in one of these areas and woul feel like I was doing something worthwhile. I don't look to the future much though, and goals are a very small motivating factor for me. I've been hoping that going back for my masters will be the motivation I need, but here I am again hoping that something external to me will 'stop' me using drugs.

Do you really want to quit? Ask yourself this; do you want to quite for those around you or because you truly want to be done with opiates?

I am an addict, and like an addict the idea of being clean and happy appeals to me but the reality of being without drugs doesn't.

mds275 Thanks for the ideas. I'm in Australia and I'm not sure if nalaxone is available. I actually have some naltrexone but it isn't ideal in an overdose situation as it doesn't work fast enough, and they're tablets anyway. I am seeing a doc soon to think about getting back on the naltrexone. I don't want the implant, but I feel like even taking a tablet everyday will force me to wait at least 24 hours if I want to use, by which I'll hopefully have come to my senses.

I always do cold water extractions for my codeine, and I use a prepartion with ibuprofen anyway. But my liver isn't in the best shape just due to my daily drinking.

I've been in treatment for a long time for various drugs and I've done the pros and cons chart before, even splitting it up into short term and long term pros and cons. It's probably not a bad idea to do it again though.

I feel like I know all the things I have to do to quit, there are various things that can help, but at the end of the day I know I'm just going to have to do it. I'm really scared though, I'm avoidant as fuck, and I don't want to face it. I know I'm being annoyingly ambivalent and I don't even know what I'm looking for, but I really do thank those who replied.

 

[mds275]

Sorry, it took me a minute to track down everything I can on where naloxone is easily available. You're right that Australia doesn't have much naloxone availability. However, the supervised injection facility in Sydney is doing a trial with it on-site. It isn't for taking away, but you never know when something as important and life-saving like that gets "leaked" into the community. If you are close to there, maybe ask around?

An alternative that I have been hearing more about is using buprenorphine to reverse ODs. I have never seen it myself, but I have heard from friends that it works with heroin ODs. (This is understudied- probably due to stronger affinity to the mu opioid receptors than dope- no idea about other opioids. Plus it's gotten a flurry of freak-out from the medical community, so who knows. But, like I said, a friend of a friend said...)

ANother thing that I thought of when you talked about the naltrexone and also that you do a fair bit of drinking, is if you have ever researched the Sinclair method of addressing problem drinking? I have read a fair bit and it seems really logical...have considered giving it a try myself, as this girl over-indulges daily, as well....ugh. Would love to know your thoughts on it...it is not so common here at all.

 

[footscrazy]

I haven't heard of it called the Sinclair method but looking it up that's exactly what I'm doing - using naltrexone and baclofen to help me address my drinking (and as a helpful side effect it blocks the effect of opiates). I've just got new prescriptions for both, I've used them in the past and they are helpful for reducing the cravings. Now I just have to make a week off opiates before I can start taking the naltrexone or I'll give myself precipitated withdrawals :S

That's interesting about the bupe...I guess it makes sense, as I think bupe is the opiod with the highest affinity for opiod receptors, even higher than naloxone, which is why it can be mixed together in suboxone. I wonder though, if you used enough bupe to reverse the agonist that caused the OD, wouldn't you just OD on the bupe? I really don't know much about bupe though and maybe it causes a lot less respiratory depression per amount. Either way, I don't have access to bupe anyway, or naloxone, and unfortunately I'm in Melbourne, not Sydney.

I'm feeling better about the situation though, I've used smack again once but apart from that I've been sticking to the codeine, and now I've had 3 days off in preparation for a holiday with a friend who does no drugs whatsoever for 4 days. I'mn feeling pretty good and hopeful that by the end of this I'll have the required 7 days + off to begin taking naltrexone

 

[banksy]

you got more chance of being killed in or by a car or falling down the stairs than a drug over dose. That's part of the global lie that drugs are dangerous, don't get me wrong, I understand drugs can be hazardous and can cause death from either over dose or contradictory effects, probably more to the latter than the other, when you look at amount of pharmaceutical law suits that have gone around globally for the past how ever many decades. Obviously your attachment to opiates is at an early stage and things could get harder or more risky the greater the stage. In my head its about you managing your use of opiates and the lessons you will learn to keep a balance as tolerance gets higher and the price tag rises. I do think drug use is a relationship with high maintaince issues, which left ignored can go astray.

 

[footscrazy]

^You're definitely right that shit like riding in a car is much more dangerous, and most people do it without a second thought. I guess I've come to the conclusion though, that the high of opiates, well heroin or oxycodone anyway, isn't worth that risk, but while I can think or know that, the pull towards opiates seems to come at a much more basic level, that doesn't always (ever?) listen to common sense. I love codeine and I'm one of those lucky few who gets wonderful effects from it every time; I feel like using codeine is much safer than using smack or oxy, and I think the payoff of less OD risk is worth it.

Anyway, you're right that my addiction to opiates is at an early stage. I have however got a long history of addiction, to methamphetamine and alcohol mainly, and the more years I spend addicted to various things, the more I realise that addiction is addiction, and the substance of choice is a fairly superficial part of it all.

 

[Snarky91]

Now I understand why opiates are so destructive. You have users who've actually been on the brink of death who really don't see close encounters with death as a deterrent force to terrify them out of using. They become virtual zombies between the sheer apathy of using and the dope sick mentality when they're not using. On cocaine and methamphetamine, at least you're really paranoid, whereas, as this forum illustrates, on opiates, after a period of heavy use, the user is barely a shadow of himself.

Some say you're in the early stages of use, but if you'd died, I'm sure they would have considered you to be I really late stage.

The fact that you have such a nonchalant attitude towards this subject, by your own admission, is a pretty bad indicator of where this is headed, to an outside observer. I say outside observer because I would just like to make it clear that outside of the fog surrounding you, you're headed down a very bad path.

 

[footscrazy]

^ Thanks for your reply. You make some good points, but I wouldn't say my attitude is nonchalent, rather, ambivalent. I am very aware or the risks, where I'm headed, how bad it is. However, I believe addiction is a state of ambivalence - as you know, and I know, it's not a good thing to do, I should stop, that's the best choice. It's not that I'm blind to these things, but as only an addict can know, there's also another part of you, I think a very basic, primal part of yourself, that wants it and doesn't listen to the 'conscious' mind. Of course the conscious mind can always overcome this part of yourself, but this part of your mind knows all your secrets, exactly how to convince you, because it is you, and its needs are real and strong, and basic. Addiction science suggests that the need for drugs gets confused amongst the most basic needs - such as the desire for water, or food. It definitely feels to me like the need for drugs occurs on a much more basic level than my consciousness.

You say -

On cocaine and methamphetamine, at least you're really paranoid, whereas, as this forum illustrates, on opiates, after a period of heavy use, the user is barely a shadow of himself.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said my main and original addiction is methamphetamine. Due to addictions to both substances, and others too, sadly, I believe that addiction to any drug is basically the same, with superficial differences depending on substance of choice.

 

[Snarky91]

Let me be blunt. You can overcomplicate things all you want, but you've progressed to a much harder and unforgiving class of drugs. Don't kid yourself.

 

[mds275]

Now I understand why opiates are so destructive. You have users who've actually been on the brink of death who really don't see close encounters with death as a deterrent force to terrify them out of using.

Things that seem crazy are often the very definition. Consider one of the criteria from the DSM IV-TR:
"The substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance."
In normal people terms- people who use in spite of adverse consequences are acting according to the definition.

Footscrazy- glad to see you are feeling good about your plan!

 

[panic in paradise]

Let me be blunt. You can overcomplicate things all you want, but you've progressed to a much harder and unforgiving class of drugs. Don't kid yourself.

she does know this - in ways far too well, and even more now.

... the risk is there, the motivations are clear.


i had to pause, because i am maybe going to seem;-)fearful anxious depressed or worried, but these things easily become the opposite ~quickly~ as i do see they are now footsy - please do be safe.

 

[burn out]

I took 120mg of oxycontin over about 3 hours, snorted and plugged, as well as 10mg valium and a few beers. I rarely take benzos but I drink every day. I know as much as anything it was the combo of things that contributed rather than just the amounts.

THAT is why you ODed and that's why it happened without any warning. Never mix opiates with other downers. I am a regular heroin user and I have never ODed (at least not to the point where I needed assistance) and what I have learned is that there generally will be warning signs (such as nodding out, high level of intoxication and shallow breathing) that come with an OD. I also think the most dangerous time is your last dose, or any dose you take when you already have a high level of the drug in your system. I never get close to an OD with my first dose of the day any more. There is no need to take that much, I can get high on a lot less. The dangerous time for me, is after a night of using when I want to get that euphoria back so I snort a big line when I already have a ton of dope in my system I am just not really feeling it because the euphoria has worn off. That is when I believe I once put myself near an OD, as I was intensely nodding out and my breathing became notably shallow. I don't kid myself into thinking that I have any type of formula that makes ODs impossible but you can certainly make them far less likely by being careful. That simply means never mix opiates with other downers and always be extremely cautious dosing when you already have opiates in your system or when your tolerance might be down as after a break or when you dont know the potency of the dope you have.

Interesting to note though, the potency has never been a factor for me. Usually it is about the same quality and when the quality is significantly different, it has always been worse and not better than usual. If I got heroin that was significantly more potent than usual enough to make me risk an OD, I would have to be incredibly lucky as it would probably need to be at least 3x more potent than normal.