N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
Etomidate
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
Does anyone know much about Etomidate? I've read a bit about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etomidate
I can't find how it causes it's effects though, and without that it's hard to say if it's of any recreational value. Any ideas?
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
It's an alpha-2 agonist that works by reducing sympathetic activity until not enough is left to maintain conciouness (the alpha-2 adrenoreceptor is the 'brake' of sympathetic activity. Stimulating that causes feedback that reduces activity, that reduction of activity leading to clinical anaesthesia.
The recreational potential would be very low because of it's mechanism of action
Update - it's got bugger all to do with alpha-2 agonism & everything to do with GABA. I got got confused between etomidate & dexmedetomidine 8) 
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jasoncrest
Bluelighter
It's a general anesthetic from what I read...
I wouldn't play with it...
Dr.Heckyll
Bluelighter
An other alpha2 agonist, tizanidine, is quite recreational at higher doses [~5x the therapeutic dose). It induces a dreamy, very relaxed state, not unlike opioids. Quite nice and pleasant experience!
morphiquet
Bluelighter
etomidate acts at least mainly as a gabaergic enhancer.
but as it bears some structural similarities to clonidine, it might also have affinity to a2-receptors. or that's the reason why you mistakenly assumed it to be one @fastandbulbous.
Slay
Ex-Bluelighter
hey i was looking for the same thing and found this
http://www.bedfordlabs.com/products/inserts/etomidate_pi.pdf
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
Nothing about any 'adverse' psychiatric reactions. Though a drug used only in hospitals for total anaesthesia wouldn't likely need that info- you're out, where's the euphoria?
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
morphiquet said:
Yeah, I got it confused with dexmedetomidine, which is an alpha-2 agonist. What set me off (in a very roundabout way) was remembering my wife telling me about one of the vet anaesthetics that has yohimbine as the reversal agent (yohimbine is an alpha-2 antagonist). Along with the ketamine you have the makings of a small party in a vet pharmacy! 
Nothing to do with similarities to clonidine or any other structural similarities unless you count both drugs having 'etom' in their name 8) . By the way, thanks for the 'some structural similarities to clonidine' face saver, but once you're past 40, the mind/brain starts to operate in some strange ways, especially with memory, so you just have to get used to the idea that you're going to have the occasional public demonstration of galloping senility! Best to smile & embrace it. I've ballsed things up in some quite creative ways recently... 
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kidamnesiac
Bluelighter
thats why us youths say dont trust anyone over 40...old man!
happy 420 post me!
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
lol. don't trust anyone, man.
ThePharmacist25
Bluelighter
So would this be totally useless if I got my hand on a bottle of this stuff?
Yohimbine, an alpha2 antagonist, completely negates the effects of opiates. It can induce acute symptoms of withdrawal in a addict who's just injected heroin if administered in a sufficient, but still relatively modest, quantity...
In other words, the reason you feel opiated after taking large amounts is that you ARE.... essentially.
I would really like to get my hands on some tizanidine or dexmedetomidine along with some hydromorphone....
ThePharmacist25
Bluelighter
Tizanidine, Dexmdetomidine, why those in particular, the Dilaudid, I already do, from time to time...
I don't want those two alpha-2 adrenergic agonists in particular, I just want an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist, whichever it may be. The reason is simply that they would theoretically potentiate opioids and protract their duration of action.
I could also use them to explore higher doses of dextroamphetamine. I have a resting heart rate of 100+ when I'm not on ANYTHING. It's just too dangerous to take much amphetamine in my condition.
/Now that I think about it, this may be the source of my depression. It may be that I have some variant MOPr that isn't activated very efficiently by my endorphins; that my body produces fewer endorphins on average than others; that I have a lower density of MOPr; that my neurons naturally produce and disgorge excessive amounts of noradrenaline, adrenaline, or both; or that I have deformed or rarefied alpha 2 adrenergic receptors. All of these things would explain my anhedonia, apathy, depression, and chronic tachycardia and hypertension.
//It just so happens that opioids, especially hydrocodone, increase my libido, whereas Yohimbe does not. Explain that, everyone. (Can everyone stop pretending that I'm not here and take the time to answer my questions. I don't think they're that stupid...)
What a profoundly idiotic thing to say. Your most recent post has no relevance at all to the subject which the OP raised; does that mean that what you said is stupid? If it does, then what you said must be wrong, but if it's wrong then it isn't stupid to make off-topic posts; therefore your post isn't necessarily stupid. If we assume that it is smart (which is roughly synonymous with "correct"), then, we should perhaps conclude that it is stupid to post off-topic comments, and therefore must conclude that your comment is stupid, but then ... etc....
Liar's paradox and all that.
Edit: Unbelievable typos
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daddysgone
Bluelighter
my friend,
stop with the persistent whining. stop wasting your time orchestrating these overly ornate and verbose posts. stop looking to a forum mainly populated with recreational drug user to provide answers to your admittedly serious and unfortunate mental health problems.
hanging out in a drug forum all day isnt going to help you. you have NO real idea whats causing your depression, and i understand this is frustrating, but im pretty damn sure you arent going to find the answer here.
i really do wish you all the best, but seriously man, what do you really think you are gonna find here?
"Overly ornate and verbose"? I don't see my posts as being remotely ornate...
Well, the fact that opioids have in the past alleviated every symptom of my psychiatric disorders, whereas the substances which are officially sanctioned by modern medicine for the treatment of depression have not done so, seems to elucidate things pretty well. I actually fancy I have a fairly good understanding of what ails me.
Bullshit.
I didn't say I was looking for anything all together spectacular. I'm not under the impression that it will be my salvation or anything. I post here mostly because I am bored and wish to burn time (I sleep a lot but that still leaves me with some 11 hours or so to piss away a day; all things considered, I actually think I've shown a great deal of restraint. I joined late December; it's now February and I've only made ~50 posts. (Only about one a day))
In reality, there's a hell of a lot that bluelighters could do to help me, if they really wanted to; they don't want to. They won't even do so much as to answer a few questions here or there (though it would take less than a minute to do so in most cases.) I impute this to arrogance and self-absorption. Too bad even Bluelighters aren't intelligent enough to see the beauty of the axiom "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and put it into practice.
So, what are you hoping to get out of Bluelight? If you really believe that it can't resolve anyone's problem or be remotely helpful to anyone, then why do you remain?
Do you just want me to leave? Am I spoiling your fun? Take note that the more I sense someone wishes me to perform in a particular way, the more inclined I feel to do the opposite. Reaction bias. I am aware that it besets me and yet I can do nothing to quell this instinct.
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Hammilton
Bluelighter
Well, perhaps not overly ornate or verbose, certainly poorly constructed logically.
Your whole logical argument is a major failure. As you should know, whether or not my statement is paradoxical relies upon the whole of the facts not simply form. First, it doesn't qualify as a liar's paradox, which would need to take the form "irrelevant posts are stupid" in this case. Second, you're not taking all of the facts into account.
You complain that:
What is stupid is not posting off topic- in general, though, it probably could be said to be, though certainly not always (there can exist good reasons for introducing a tangentially connected topic or responding; Your libido isn't connected and there certainly exists no reason)- it's stupid to complain about not getting responses when you're posting in a thread about something entirely unrelated.
Well, I am the OP, so... Double no? No, as I've explained, your post isn't stupid because it's generally off topic but because of the specific content. I'm guessing you didn't do very well in your logic courses in college?
Noobs...
Let me paraphrase:
"This inquiry of yours is entirely irrelevant and incredibly stupid because you've posted it into a thread about etomidate."
What you meant to say was:
"It was stupid of you to post your inquiry to this thread because it has no relevance to it."
This former, unredacted statement implies that the very content of my post was stupid because it was off-topic. "Stupidity" - at least when ascribed to actions or speech - means "the quality of containing false information" or "the quality of having been motivated by poor understanding or false information". If we assume that your statement is true - that the very contents of off-topic posts are stupid simply by virtue of the fact their purport be disconsonant with the overall theme of the thread in which they appear and we assume also that when you say "stupid" you mean incorrect, then at very least it's the case that you're a hypocrite and worst case your statement is an instance of the liar's paradox. (Although, to respond to your criticisms by calling you a hypocrite would be to commit the tu quoque fallacy, but this isn't a formal argument so much as a pissing contest, is it?)
It's not the case that whatever posts you make will necessarily be on-topic simply because they appear in a thread which you created (unless those posts were initial posts).
You just contradicted yourself. First you say that crux of my fallacious argument is that I have misinterpreted you as saying that the content of my post was stupid by virtue of its placement in a topically discrete thread when what you meant was that the act of placing my post in this thread was what was stupid while my post was not per se. Now you say that it's not the fact that my post is off-topic that makes my act of having placed it here stupid, but that the content of my post is stupid per se.
You have, then, said three distinct things, one unintentionally:
1. [paraphrasing] The content of off-topic posts is stupid always because the post be off-topic.
2. Your act of placing your post, upon whose intelligence and worthiness I do not purport to remark, in this thread was stupid.
3. The content of your post was stupid per se and this stupidity had nothing at all to do with it's placement.
Talk about a poor grasp of logic (and semantics).
The motivation for my post before last was to take you to task for your imprecision. I knew what you had meant, but decided to take you statement literally and respond accordingly. It was largely facetious and not for a moment did I suppose that I had made use of rigorous, consummate logic.
College? If you weren't such a selfish ass, you might have read one of my whiny threads, and if you had done so you would know that I haven't attended a single day of college nor even graduated from high school on account of my psychiatric problems.
What was really stupid of me was to expect individuals with testosterone poisoning - so to speak - to be willing to take mere moments of out their day to share their knowledge and provide me with a bit of advice. Even stupider was that I would expect you to be logical and insightful enough to see the futility in demanding that every post which importune a response reside within a topically related thread; what great utility is there in having absolutely every last post perfectly sorted according to content? Really? I don't advocate total chaos, but it certainly would not be the end of the world if there were a number of posts existing in places where they did not logically belong.
And if you'd like to know the reason why I made my off-topic post in this thread: With the deletion of my last thread, it seems the mods were attempting to send the message that I ought not create threads about my personal problems, even if I place an emphasis on the neuropharmacological aspects and aetiology of those problems and what solutions modern understanding of neuropharmacology might have for them. You see, human beings are selfish, sadistic, short-sighted fucks, which is precisely the reason why living in this world is such a miserable thing. My thread was easily ignored and yet everyone decided they needed to report it to the moderators. ...I guess because they saw me as being whiny. God forbid a person with actual problems should ask for help with those problems (i.e. "be whiny".) God forbid people should have to bear the burden of ignoring a single thread in which they personally take no interest so that a person who needs it can get a bit of advice.
---
Those humans who help others can expect to receive, and those who hurt others can expect that that harm should be requited; those, on the other hand, who give nothing receive nothing. If all beings help one another, then all are helped, and if all hurt one another or withhold blessings which would otherwise being painlessly forfeited, then all suffer in want and perpetually unredressed injury. In other words: if you desire to live in a good world and desire to maximize your own welfare, then help those who stand in need, even if you don't like them. Or "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Or "you scratch my back I scratch yours"?
^ This is the best piece of advice I have for humanity.
It's really saddening to encounter people like you who withhold the fruits of their intellect and learning out of some misguided desire for orderliness in a forum; for some aversion to the personality of the person asking; or for some elitist attitude that disposes them to wish not to associate or communicate with any one of a lesser degree of learning or intellectual ability.
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