EST/Alternatives for SEVERE depression - Please help me, help my mother

[AnyCouponWorks]

Hello everybody - i thought to post this on the dark side but hoping that whomever moves it will place it where it will gain the most valuable replies.

disclaimers: i know more medical info than the average person, due to my own health issues and subsequent awareness, personal interest in health, and nurse mother who openly taught me much about medicine. i know that all people are unique and present with their own set of circumstances. i am coming here for anecdotal evidence of success/failure in terms of depression treatment, not because im avoiding doctors (this is about my mother, and she has about 5 regular ones) but as an act of desperation to help her when nothing has yet. please offer any advice at all that you have - if its relevant. i am going to try to give as much background as possible so that no one wastes their time on things we've already tried (that sounds so obnoxious, i just want everyone to realize how many things we have already tried, im sorry)

my mother is mid 50's, SEVERELY depressed for about 10 years. (removed identifying information as i've received good feedback at this point. if anyone wants to offer more advice pm me and i can share the details. thanks)


In the talk i recently had with her she mentioned electro shock therapy. She said she is that gone that she wants to try it. But, thinks it affects memory. Now, ironically i had recently watched a PBS documentary on depression, and a young girl who did this. She was just like my mother, black depression with no breaks, ever. after many many sessions she literally returned to the state she was in as a young teenager, and enrolled in college within a week. they did not mention any major side effects other than probably the stressful nature and cost. i am going to start researching what options are out there, i just can't really find the info i am looking for.

My question is: have any of you done EST, know anyone who has, or have legitimate information about it (say, research you have done for college or something, etc) i want real life stories of people who have experience with this, good or bad, i know it is hugely controversial. OR, if what you read above rings a bell, please share any experience you have with successfully treating this type of depression, any alternate therapy. Most of the common antidepressants have been tried (wellbutrin, cymbalta, effexor, elavil ......)

i am desperate to suggest anything at this point, she is a genuinely beautiful person and we miss her, i cant tolerate her in pain. She is slipping away from me.

Thanks all.

 

[Rogue Robot]

Homeless -> TDS?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Do you mean ECT?

Overall I would not recommend it unless your mother is suicidal, and will eventually undoubtedly kill herself unless someone is always watching after her.

How many antidepressants has she tried? How long has she been in therapy? Have you explored all of your options?

These are important questions that must be asked before you consider ECT.

 

[MattPD]

If they've tried everything, like it seems they have, than ECT is a valid option for dealing with intractable depression.

There absolutely are issues related to memory loss with ECT, however I have seen people who did not respond to multitudes of other treatments completely turn around with appropriate ECT.

The major problems are the memory loss, as you mentioned, the fact that it is never sure how many treatments are needed and also the treatment may last for a while and then the depression could return.

It is a last resort treatment, but it absolutely can be effective when other treatments have been exhausted.

My thoughts go out to you and your mother. Kudos to you for staying by her side.

 

[Dave]

AnyCoupon-- Has she tried EMDR? It worked wonders for me, and while it doesn't work for everyone for those that it works for it works very well and very quickly.

 

[thelung]

ECT should be very *last resort* after all other options have been exhausted.

From what I hear, after the procedure patients have reported some pretty extreme memory loss; mostly short-term memory problems.

Is the actual procude painful? It can be. When I was in the psych ward once there were two girls that were there for ECT and both of them were automatically dosed with Norco every couple hours because of the post-procedure headache pain.

I have heard from a few people that as a last resort, the results of the ECT procedure have been mostly positive.

I wish you the best in your journey ahead. Severe/major depression is something I struggle with as well, so I know how bad it can be. I've been able to get a handle on it for the most part using SSRI medication along with mood stabilization medication.

 

[AnyCouponWorks]

Dave - what is EMDR? i haven't heard of it.

Yes, i suppose I mean ECT. I as you can see do not know much about it.

We have essentially tried every option there is, she's been on at least 7 or more diff antidepressants etc, and multiple doctors/psychologists/psychiatrists. what bothers me is that NOTHING has had even a SLIGHT effect. her depression is seemingly untouchable. i think this is what makes it stronger, because one can forget the brief glimpses of hope that can remind you to keep going.

i am a very optimistic person and have been blessed with a life full of happiness fulfillment and only the occasional blues. so i have always had a hard time understanding "depression". its easy to just say, come on snap out of it, but my mother is the type to put on the bravest face and in the past 4 years she's stopped doing even that, so i am starting to grasp the depths of this disease. it has taken hold of her soul.

i do believe that her extensive struggles with mobility, relationships, terminal illness, and etc have fueled an already existing problem. but what i dont like is that i feel that if we were to remove all of her major issues, the depression would still be there. that is why i think it is time to look at the options. its not fair. i am terrified of severe treatments and do NOT want to go this route, but i know she's thought about it and thats significant to me.

even if my posts just begins a discussion that leads to some sort of "answer", im ok with that. i know theres many out there who are in the same boat she is in, and i want to know how theyve coped. i want to give her hope.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Related reading:

ECT

Neurofeedback

AnyCouponWorks, I sincerely wish the best for your mum and I hope she can find some method that gives her relief from her depression. Keep us updated

 

[morphonorconic]

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. Depression is an awful force.

You mentioned the fact that she is in a great deal of pain, has tried without success all of the typical antidepressant medications, and occasionally takes (Opioid) pain medication. How does she feel when she takes the pain meds? I guess the real question is: Is her physical as well as mental pain relieved, to an appreciable extent, by the Opioid medication(s)?

Generally, Opioid drugs are not even considered for major depression, though they have in some cases shown marked efficacy in relieving many of the symptoms of depression. There are many downsides to this approach. However, taking into consideration the apparent failure of most if not all of the first line treatments, and also considering her unique circumstances, (illness and physical pain) perhaps a treatment plan could be formulated using the Opioid class of drugs, as a last resort before trying ECT. If it were me, I would want to be absolutely sure I had tried everything possible in the way of medication before attempting ECT and the like. Best wishes,

 

[AnyCouponWorks]

she takes ultram nearly daily. this helps her pain in combination with wellbutrin. she is on a lot of meds that are life preserving so adding more is not really ideal at this point.

she will take opiates in rare situations but she does not want to be on them regularly as she fears dependence and her pain is controlled enough with the ultram. she acutally was given the ultram as an alternative to the other narcotics when she expressed not wanting to be on them.

i do think she of course experiences a lift in mood on them but not unlike anyone else without depression would. i just know that becomign dependent on yet another medication would be both unhealthy and impractical for her. it is such a shame though, opiates could be such a useful tool if they did not produce addictive behavior and dependence, ive thought many times that some people i know truly never experienced joy until use of an opiate.

 

[izzy66]

in the mid-90s i had dozens of ect treatments. memory loss was extreme, esp short term memory. i have nothing good to say about ect, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and regret that i wasn't strong enough at the time to fight against the bastards who manipulated me into giving consent. imho, ect is barbaric torture.
i totally understand the depth of depression that pushes someone to consider ect but the damage caused by repeated treatments creates a whole new set of problems to overcome.
i hope your mother is able to find another way to cope w/ her depression. best of luck to both of you.
-izzy

 

[panic in paradise]

i had a relative do ECT with in the past 10 years, it helped her for a brief period, then nothing. she suffered no side effects after several sessions.

i was considering this a while back, and then tried lithium... wow.

it sounds freaky and intimidating, but the only reason i didnt go was because of my aunts lame experience, and my response to positive response to klonopin and lithium later.


i do agree that some opioids are suitable for clinical depression, more so then marijuana, which is prescribed for depression regularly in some N. american states. methadone, at a very light dose, like <15mg every 2 days is a very effective antidepressant i believe, and such a low dose that tapering and building up again would be hardly noticeable, it would potentate the ultram also a bit.


she could also be having an anaphalaptic(sp) reaction to something, taking an antihistamine could offer some relief if thats the case... if it did, that would be a lead. does she have any food, or pollen, animal, cosmetic etc. allergies?

also, vit D. your D25 should be like 80-100, mine and my wifes were bellow 10... that can cause a varying spectrum of symptoms, like depression. my wife and i take 1 50,000i.u. pill a week.