modern buddha
Bluelighter
It's a beautiful journey on the tightrope! And having a mile of it is scary, but necessary. It's difficult and in order to maintain your goals, you need to be steadfast and exact.
With some fun, of course!
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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
Enlightenment like how?
- Thread starter BoxeM
- Start date
It's a beautiful journey on the tightrope! And having a mile of it is scary, but necessary. It's difficult and in order to maintain your goals, you need to be steadfast and exact.
With some fun, of course!
Feeling the real body
> > It is my experience that emotions are physiological reactions in
> > the body to thoughts in the brain.Â
>
> Physiological reactions in the body are felt in the brain.
>
> Or felt in awareness, one might say.
>
> You could say the body is the mind, when emotions are involved - the emotional
> body/mind.
>
> The mind is located in the body, or the body is located in the mind, or (more
> accurately) the mind is the body is the mind is the
> body is the mind.
P.S. if it's not limited to the body, awareness/consciousness is felt everywhere.
I mean felt, too.
I believe it was Ramana Maharshi, btw, who said "The body is as insentient as a
piece of wood".
Of course he was misunderstood.
It is consciousness/awareness that is intelligent, sentient, feeling and alive.
> > It is my experience that emotions are physiological reactions in
> > the body to thoughts in the brain.Â
>
> Physiological reactions in the body are felt in the brain.
>
> Or felt in awareness, one might say.
>
> You could say the body is the mind, when emotions are involved - the emotional
> body/mind.
>
> The mind is located in the body, or the body is located in the mind, or (more
> accurately) the mind is the body is the mind is the
> body is the mind.
P.S. if it's not limited to the body, awareness/consciousness is felt everywhere.
I mean felt, too.
I believe it was Ramana Maharshi, btw, who said "The body is as insentient as a
piece of wood".
Of course he was misunderstood.
It is consciousness/awareness that is intelligent, sentient, feeling and alive.
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But, if you realize that all those ways of defining yourself are illusory and the only thing real is awareness or whatever word you want to use, then wouldn't the same go for other people as well? So, what do you love about them? Their watchfulness?
malakaix
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2008
- Messages
- 3,054
This is the real test, at least in my experience.. and it's an on-going process of self-development through dis-identification.. you love them for everything they are, but you are not identified with them in any aspect.
Your ever-present awareness or True Self is absolutely integral, it is the embodiment of all. Your sense of acceptance expands greatly for you know that everything is part of the one consciousness, you see yourself within others.. and are humbled by the play of consciousness. The deep sense of love you feel for everything for "what it is" becomes a defining component of your enlightened state.
You slowly begin to accept more and resist less.
What i find most people fail to mention, despite been aware of this realization is.. there will still be people who continue to make you angry, frustrated, guilty even happy. Everyone is a reflection of who you are, if you believe your not an arrogant person.. then people who are arrogant are going to cause you discomfort, even resentment towards them.. because they are reflecting back your own repressed self. If you don't believe your confident, then people who are will cause you to envy them, maybe even despise them.. because there reflecting back that aspect of yourself in which you don't believe you are.
But this all relates back to the illusion of separation, you are 'everything', reaching this awareness through deep meditation or other methods; allows you to realize this.. but it still remains as a process of acceptance, integration and self-development over time.
It's a good question, as non-separation always begs the question of loving something that isn't separate from you. Essentially you don't; it becomes "I am love" rather than "I love xxx". Be the sugar, or taste the sugar.
That said, it is not unloving, not disconnected/distant and not disengaged, in *any* conceivable way. More like so engaged/connected that the idea of being connected or engaged becomes irrelevant and meaningless. There's no need to even think about it; it is the default state, all the time.
Others won't change their impression of you, because their impressions are based on *their own psyche and self-image*, not yours. IMV, that is a very important point. Crucial, even. It is *not* about affecting the way you're viewed by others, it is a change in how you view others.
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panic in paradise
Bluelighter
^what about the salt..?
:-\
i like to imagine getting half-way, and then the rope just disappearing.
);-D
:-\
It's a beautiful journey on the tightrope! And having a mile of it is scary, but necessary. It's difficult and in order to maintain your goals, you need to be steadfast and exact.
With some fun, of course!
i like to imagine getting half-way, and then the rope just disappearing.
);-D
Just fall completely into the here and now, and stop paying attention to (lose interest in) time and location. "The rest" takes care of itself. It's incredibly simple, but for the need/drive to survive as a separable being in time and space.
modern buddha
Bluelighter
It's gonna be a bumpy ride!
Guess you're gonna have to hold onto your boxers, man. :P
Guess you're gonna have to hold onto your boxers, man. :P
I would like to add that some cultures have no words for enlightenment except those borrowed from other languages and then been modified to fit the cultures native language. The native Sami people that live on the north parts of Finland, Sweden and Norway refer instead of enlightment to a word which could be translated into a something as a journey to nowhere. Their shamans think that instead of a single instant change of mind there is a continous journey to realizing that there is no something that would be translated as a subject or me. The continuous journey leads ultimately to a unexistence of ones self and that is the part they became whole with the tribe.
Some come to an end of that journey in their childhood, some when they turn teenagers, some as adults and they ultimately believe that if you havent gone through your journey before die, that is the last time you are going to realize it.
They think that as the subject or me becomes obsolete during the journey then the body can unify with others and cross the barriers what others that havent reached to the end of their journey as a difference of living and death, animate and unanimate. Those who had made their journey cannot anymore differ those from the other. Rocks are same as people, trees are same as people. The sun and the rest of stars are same a the people. They leave their dualistic views behind and instead of being a person they are the whole world around them.
But what the hell, they drink pee from reindeers that have have feed with otherwise toxic mushrooms to get to a trabce state. I wonder how they came up to that idea that the mushrooms that exists where they live are deadly if eaten not depending how they are treated, one mushroom can kill your liver and also result in kidney failure. But when those are feed to the reindeer the reindeers metabolism (or a first liver pass) are not harmful to them and they excreet the hallucinogens of the mushrooms to their urine which is then no longer hepatoxic.
We Finns do not either have a word for enlightment that does not came from other languages. The borrowed word would actually mean someone having a vision and instantly changing their live and view of world. We do have two indigenous words that also explain the phenomena as a journey as the Sami people. Other one means when translated in english as learning to live. Learning to live leads to a same situation as the Sami peoples journey where you notice that there is no you bu instead everything. Tho other means being aware and being aware means that you notice that there are other subjects around you and you interact with them co-operatively but maintain your ownself instead of killing your ego.
I think that I am somewhat being aware but still also on a journey too but I am afraid of killing my ego. I do also feel connected to the world around me in a sense of new knowledge that we consists only of matter which is omnipresent everywhere in our endless universe and therefore I am not better than rest of beings that have the ability to sense the world around them. And ultimately matter equals energy so we all part of the born of the universe and the energy released upon that time in the form of radiation which then become into soup of atoms which gathered into formations because the soup was not totally smooth and caused the first stars to form abd release other heavier atoms after they died. Also the formation of galaxies, clusters of galaxies, black holes, etc and finally into a solar systems which could become habitable by a differeny forms of life and eventually into a species that try to think about the existence of everything.
Even though there is no dualism and our ideas are simply energy and matter doing their dance in our brains, we must understand that we have concepts that are here to help us to cope in this non-dualist world. Think them as a tools. If you would have a baby you would have concept of baby even though the baby is only material which can be also energy. But in order to cope with our existence with our bodies that have outdated as our minds have grown into a different levels faster than the body. And therefore we need to be also able to think ourselfs as a subjects to make that baby survive by giving him nutrition, shelter, ways to explore the world and start its journey and the process of being aware.
This just the conclusion where I have ended on my journey and I am not finished which means that I am open to new ideas instead of just building a wall around selfexistence and blocking out every opinions out.
I think that the enlightenment as you think can be reached through continuous learning and becaming more and more aware of the world instead of a heavenly strike that changes your mind in milliseconds or that it can be only gained by using psychedelic drugs. Psychedelics might help people that have no time to meditate or otherwose are being hesotant to a change in their views but in my opinion they are not needed to gain enlightenment as I see it through my cultural background which affects a lot as we are not so christian country even though most of us belong to evangelic-lutherian church which is a protestant church but it is more because the tradition than the true beliefs. We are mostlt pagans which happens because we are more connected to the wilderness (chaos of nature) than the cities (build to defeat the chaos of nature). Check out the way I used the word nature as there is only nature and nothing can be unnatural, we just tend to tinker with natures normal chaos form to lead it up in more constant environment such as villages and cities.
And as we live close to the chaos, there starts a forest from my backyard, we always remember the chaotical form of nature and tend not to develop irrelevant dualistic idea consisting of natural or unnatural and therefore we think LHC and particles created with it as natural as a tree that grows in our backyard and does it leaves. Therefore we have no problem using drugs synthesized from materials occurring in more or less chaotic nature. And everyone thinks that using oxycodonr is as natural as using weed. The other one just have to been uniformed more from chaos than the other.
Shoot me if you want but these are just my opinions which can be changed if better solutions arrive.
Some come to an end of that journey in their childhood, some when they turn teenagers, some as adults and they ultimately believe that if you havent gone through your journey before die, that is the last time you are going to realize it.
They think that as the subject or me becomes obsolete during the journey then the body can unify with others and cross the barriers what others that havent reached to the end of their journey as a difference of living and death, animate and unanimate. Those who had made their journey cannot anymore differ those from the other. Rocks are same as people, trees are same as people. The sun and the rest of stars are same a the people. They leave their dualistic views behind and instead of being a person they are the whole world around them.
But what the hell, they drink pee from reindeers that have have feed with otherwise toxic mushrooms to get to a trabce state. I wonder how they came up to that idea that the mushrooms that exists where they live are deadly if eaten not depending how they are treated, one mushroom can kill your liver and also result in kidney failure. But when those are feed to the reindeer the reindeers metabolism (or a first liver pass) are not harmful to them and they excreet the hallucinogens of the mushrooms to their urine which is then no longer hepatoxic.
We Finns do not either have a word for enlightment that does not came from other languages. The borrowed word would actually mean someone having a vision and instantly changing their live and view of world. We do have two indigenous words that also explain the phenomena as a journey as the Sami people. Other one means when translated in english as learning to live. Learning to live leads to a same situation as the Sami peoples journey where you notice that there is no you bu instead everything. Tho other means being aware and being aware means that you notice that there are other subjects around you and you interact with them co-operatively but maintain your ownself instead of killing your ego.
I think that I am somewhat being aware but still also on a journey too but I am afraid of killing my ego. I do also feel connected to the world around me in a sense of new knowledge that we consists only of matter which is omnipresent everywhere in our endless universe and therefore I am not better than rest of beings that have the ability to sense the world around them. And ultimately matter equals energy so we all part of the born of the universe and the energy released upon that time in the form of radiation which then become into soup of atoms which gathered into formations because the soup was not totally smooth and caused the first stars to form abd release other heavier atoms after they died. Also the formation of galaxies, clusters of galaxies, black holes, etc and finally into a solar systems which could become habitable by a differeny forms of life and eventually into a species that try to think about the existence of everything.
Even though there is no dualism and our ideas are simply energy and matter doing their dance in our brains, we must understand that we have concepts that are here to help us to cope in this non-dualist world. Think them as a tools. If you would have a baby you would have concept of baby even though the baby is only material which can be also energy. But in order to cope with our existence with our bodies that have outdated as our minds have grown into a different levels faster than the body. And therefore we need to be also able to think ourselfs as a subjects to make that baby survive by giving him nutrition, shelter, ways to explore the world and start its journey and the process of being aware.
This just the conclusion where I have ended on my journey and I am not finished which means that I am open to new ideas instead of just building a wall around selfexistence and blocking out every opinions out.
I think that the enlightenment as you think can be reached through continuous learning and becaming more and more aware of the world instead of a heavenly strike that changes your mind in milliseconds or that it can be only gained by using psychedelic drugs. Psychedelics might help people that have no time to meditate or otherwose are being hesotant to a change in their views but in my opinion they are not needed to gain enlightenment as I see it through my cultural background which affects a lot as we are not so christian country even though most of us belong to evangelic-lutherian church which is a protestant church but it is more because the tradition than the true beliefs. We are mostlt pagans which happens because we are more connected to the wilderness (chaos of nature) than the cities (build to defeat the chaos of nature). Check out the way I used the word nature as there is only nature and nothing can be unnatural, we just tend to tinker with natures normal chaos form to lead it up in more constant environment such as villages and cities.
And as we live close to the chaos, there starts a forest from my backyard, we always remember the chaotical form of nature and tend not to develop irrelevant dualistic idea consisting of natural or unnatural and therefore we think LHC and particles created with it as natural as a tree that grows in our backyard and does it leaves. Therefore we have no problem using drugs synthesized from materials occurring in more or less chaotic nature. And everyone thinks that using oxycodonr is as natural as using weed. The other one just have to been uniformed more from chaos than the other.
Shoot me if you want but these are just my opinions which can be changed if better solutions arrive.
panic in paradise
Bluelighter
hmm;-D
i could shoot you, or stab you, or hang you maybe drown you...*
or, you could do the same to me and more - there are many ways to die and once this becomes ' omni-present ' the fragile balance of our life, and love and then light in everything does come into a perspective, if accepted.
IDK-
from nothing something comes, & from there maybe anything is possible.
"Awakening" has been described differently across time and cultures, but always boils down to the simplest, most primordial understanding -- the utter abandonment of attachment, living without a psychological support structure of any kind.
It's very stark, very plain, very basic, and there's no psychological hope or comfort in it -- and none sought. One simply sees the futility of the search with crystal clarity. It's not something that can be brought about, not something that can be wanted or desired -- it equates to fulfillment, contentment and the end of desire and fear (as the basis of one's life).
Thus (as I see it anyway), "awakening" is endlessly misunderstood. It can be something life brings about -- disillusionment -- but not something a self that isn't really there/controlling things can seek and then bring about. One can move one's body and take actions, but 'awakening' is not a set of physical actions with an end result, and can't be achieved. Nor can you think your way into it, or out of it. There's no in/out to it at all -- it's beyond the mind and its pairs of opposites/dualisms. Simply being, is the only qualification.
From nothing something comes... and goes. Comes, and goes. Comes, and goes. That's all that needs to be seen -- in the end, attachment isn't even possible. Just Being.
"I'll show you a place high on a desert plain... where the streets have no name".
You're already there. There's nowhere else. Stop searching and look very deeply, closely and compassionately at the way things are now -- everywhere.
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