Elon Musk reportedly using multiple substances, including ketamine, MDMA, and Adderall

[4DQSAR]

What points do you feel are contradictory?

I'm not in any way saying your aren't telling the truth, merely noting that while I only posted one link, obviously I did read a couple of dozen. It is a case study so considered low-quality evidence, it does cite other works

So it's entirely possible for someone to present with different symptoms, but urinary incontinence does appear to be used as a diagnosic tool. That is ALWAYS a problem for doctors. Almost nobody will exactly fulfil the criteria or will present with other symptoms. The fact that bladder infections occur also asks the question if it was the K or an infection that produced the symptoms in any given case study?

But 'this didn't happen to me so it isn't true' isn't very scientific. Present a meta-analysis such as this:

https://www.hkmj.org/system/files/hkmj209194.pdf in which the symptoms of 4921 patents were compared and it does appear that cystitis is the term they chose and bladder urgency is genrally an accepted symptom.

So while you may well have experienced different symptoms - I can't pee if I consume tramadol. So does that mean everyone who consumes tramadol will suffer that symptom? It IS known, but quite rare. So would it be helpful to tell people my experience extends to them?

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I have taken k (always at low-ish doses, maybe 200-250mg altogether spread over 3 doses per session) on less than 10 occasions in my life, and the last two times I definitely felt discomfort in the pissing/bladder areas - so am now kinda paranoid that I may be predisposed to the bad bladder effects

It won't stop me taking it again though as it gives me a noticeable mood lift lasting a couple weeks at least, but if I feel the bladder thing again I'll probably desist altogether with the K

 

[Shambles]

I’ve used ket pretty heavily in the past. Multiple grams a day at times. Took a ten year break and had a little more recently, got another couple grams put aside for a special okkasion.

My bladder ain’t great. The main issue I have is extreme need to go. The time between the first urge and the dancing on the spot is barely existent any more.

And when I need to go I need to go. Cannot hold it and will piss myself if I’m not able to find a toilet/bush/whatever in very short time.

Not requiring nappies or owt… but honestly could see it happening somewhere down the line

Heavy ket use is no joke. It’s great and all - I still think of it as one of my closest chemical friends - but definitely has some major issues when abused.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

It won't stop me taking it again though as it gives me a noticeable mood lift lasting a couple weeks at least, but if I feel the bladder thing again I'll probably desist altogether with the K

That was my experience. Mold pressure that would go away.

One day it went from 0 to 100 and was never the same again and my life was pretty much destroyed after that.

I made the mistake you’re making of thinking that I would gradually worsen….nope, one day it was barley anything and the next week it was life changing.

Also that pain you feel is already permanent damages. You aren’t healing when you become asymptomatic, the inflammation is just dying down to where you don’t feel the pain anymore but your bladder wall is still damaged and that’s cumulative the more and more you use.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

What points do you feel are contradictory?

I'm not in any way saying your aren't telling the truth, merely noting that while I only posted one link, obviously I did read a couple of dozen. It is a case study so considered low-quality evidence, it does cite other works

So it's entirely possible for someone to present with different symptoms, but urinary incontinence does appear to be used as a diagnosic tool. That is ALWAYS a problem for doctors. Almost nobody will exactly fulfil the criteria or will present with other symptoms. The fact that bladder infections occur also asks the question if it was the K or an infection that produced the symptoms in any given case study?

But 'this didn't happen to me so it isn't true' isn't very scientific. Present a meta-analysis such as this:

https://www.hkmj.org/system/files/hkmj209194.pdf in which the symptoms of 4921 patents were compared and it does appear that cystitis is the term they chose and bladder urgency is genrally an accepted symptom.

So while you may well have experienced different symptoms - I can't pee if I consume tramadol. So does that mean everyone who consumes tramadol will suffer that symptom? It IS known, but quite rare. So would it be helpful to tell people my experience extends to them?

I’ve never heard of any of the hundreds of patients I’ve talked to on Reddit (mostly women with naturally occurring cystitis) having incontinence. So I don’t know. Maybe it’s a symptom for some people. OAB and Benign prostate hyperplasia and pelvic floor dysfunction and pudential neuralgia are all diseases with very similar symptoms that get confused with eachother, cause eachother, and are misdiagnosed as eachother and maybe some ppl have different issues there vs being able to piss or not.

Urgency doesn’t mean there’s actual urine in the bladder either. It will be totally empty on infrasound but since the nerves are so insulted it creates the feeling of urgency even though there is nothing in the bladder to empty

 

[4DQSAR]

https://www.baus.org.uk/_userfiles/pages//files/News/Newsletters//W22%20-%20BJUI%20consensus%20article.pdf

Well, I provide citations of acadamic papers... not personal experience (weak evdence but case studies are evidence so fine) and then hearsay. Because who knows who posts to Reddit? We have absolutely no idea if they are a representitive group. Often people are not honest about embarassing symptoms. So their is an entire basket of biases built in to self-reporting on social media.

I'm using data where medical proessionals have provided everything from case studies to meta-analyses and above is a link to a paper issued by the British Association of Urological Surgeons 'Consensus statements on the management of ketamine uropathy'.

So while I absolutely stated that a single person could present with totally unexpected symptoms and that one sympton alone wouldn't be used to provide a diagnosis, it appears to be widely accepted as a symptom used in diagnosis.

But come on, really? You BELIEVE Reddit is a reliable source?

Because you are totally at libery to present academic papers that asserts that urinary incontinence is not used in diagnoses. I WILL read it. I'm lead by the data I read. MAYBE the entire establishement is wrong and although an uphill struggle, that would be important to make clear. But cite me something begins by exclusing cases due to comorbidities and such details. Because that meta-analaysis explained how they systematically removed cases where such issues existed.

Because with Reddit - you only get subjective information, not objective information. Yes we do use survays but we actually have to design them to remove bias. I get told 'no' for almost any survay because members of my family are journalists... not me, but members of my family. But evidently we are biased because we MAY just parrot whatever the newspaper our family members work for is saying. It's hard.