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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Effective, non-addictive sleep aid?

arohydro

arohydro

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
75
Hey guys.

Been a while since I've come 'round these parts. I might do so just for the non-drug boards, as I adore the community and feel at home here.

Regardless, I've been mostly off the drug wagon for a while, save for weed and alcohol. Real life and all.

I've come to realize that my previous lifestyle has made things very difficult for me. I was sedentary, and a comp-addict, so my whole body has been pretty tight and it's made working out difficult. I have a repetitive strain injury in my upper body that I'm overcoming, and my sleep issues are making it more difficult to heal or feel *ok* throughout the day.

I'm also gonna throw in a few bonus questions at the end that have nothing to do with the topic, but maybe could be answered anyway.

I need a way to help myself sleep through the night. Ever since I quit weed two weeks ago, from heavy daily smoking, I've slowly been recovering my capacity to do so. Even still, I used pot to help me sleep in the first place, so there's some other issue besides its absence causing me to have sleep problems that I am working on tackling.

TL;DR starts here:

While I begin a sleep hygiene regimen, exercising more, and getting my diet under check, I was wondering if there were any non-habit forming drugs that don't affect cognitive abilities (like benzos) that I could use to help me get some really deep, restorative sleep until the aforementioned changes kick in. The problem is, I don't want to have the same problem with weed all over again once I quit the next sleep-aid.

My mom recommended flexeril, but I'm not so sure about it. I don't know if it has any permanent side effects, especially since my body and mind are particularly important to me. Being able to perform very fine motor functions is something I'd prefer not to jeopardize, and due to my complete ignorance (I admit it, I could be worrying for no reason at all), I am timid around muscle relaxants.

Thanks guys.

Bonus round:

1stly, if you are familiar with physiology, how badly do you have to overstretch a tendon or similar part of the body before it's permanently affected? That is, it forms some scar tissue and you will not have the same range of motion or will have issues pushing your body to its ABSOLUTE limit with strength training?

2ndly, I abused alcohol for a couple months after I turned 21. Not super, super heavily, but I WAS polishing off at least 750mL every week, getting drunk most nights, and sometimes going harder. I woke up with many a terrible hangover, wretching bile into the toilet for hours at a time and feeling shitty all day, and sometimes bleeding into the next.

I'm wondering if I've done any real damage to myself with it; I've barely drank since then and it seems like a short enough duration for my body to bounce back. Keep in mind I'm not the healthiest individual barring all those things, though I do have a solid set of genes if I do say so myself.

The information isn't particularly useful and I don't lose sleep over it, but I'm just curious.
 
My main three are as follows (in order of efficacy):

1) Mirtazapine (Remeron) - Prescription only but not scheduled. Antidepressant though I never found it very useful in this realm, though not an SSRI. Not habituating in my experience.

2) Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) - Over the counter. Cycle with Remeron for best results as it will stop working eventually.

3) Melatonin - Same as benadryl.


Cycle all three for maximal efficacy.


Also exercise and a healthy diet is useful as well, though obviously not pharmaceutical.
 
Thank you kindly!

I've been on remeron, took it, woke up the next day and realized I slept 18 hours straight. I'm a bit hesitant to try it again for that reason, though I still have some in the house (to abort bad trips :) ). Maybe a lower dose is in order? Or maybe continued use will level out its effects? I assume it's quite safe with regards to cognition and everything.

I REALLY don't mix well at all with benadryl, though I do keep it as an emergency sleep aid. I'd rather stay away from it altogether.

Melatonin is something I take every night but seems to stop working toward the morning.

The bottomline is that I always feel tired, even after having slept 12 hours. I feel like I have this massive sleep debt that I don't know how to overcome.
 
I suffer from hypersomnia myself. It's a part of ADHD that really is a horrible thing.

I would try cutting down the dose of remeron quite a bit, like split it into quarters or eighths even. You'll find you'll become tolerant to it eventually (hopefully as is was my case) and then you can use it all you like. Might even help depression.

I'd try sublingual melatonin and cycling it on and off with the remeron.

Also reading a good book is a great way to fall asleep after you've taken your sleep-aid of choice.
 
Hey, that's something I haven't considered... hypersomnia, maybe it's another part of my ADHD? I am prescribed adderall that I take quite sparingly, and have done the ritalin thing up and down. I am trying to use behavioral changes to treat the symptoms rather than drugs.

Might explain a lot... Might explain why I'm always tired, have bags under my eyes, and feel behind all of my fellow 20 somethings and their seemingly INFINITE FUCKING ENERGY.

I'll take a look at the remeron and try a much smaller dose. It seemed very, very effective at inducing sleep, lol.

Thanks : )
 
Melatonin, Zolpidem, Doxylamine are probably your heaviest hitters. Some evidence suggests that occasional moderate doses of alcohol are also effective, even if it has been shown to effect sleep architecture.
 
I'd personally avoid the z-drugs. They have a terrible tendency of causing serious amnesiac episodes. They are also related to benzodiazapines in a way that would make them habit-forming in a similar way, as well as exhibiting cross-tolerance with traditional benzos.

And no problem.

Good luck. :)
 
Nately's Whore said:
I'd personally avoid the z-drugs. They have a terrible tendency of causing serious amnesiac episodes. They are also related to benzodiazapines in a way that would make them habit-forming in a similar way, as well as exhibiting cross-tolerance with traditional benzos.
Click to expand...

I'm not the biggest fan, but they do have a pretty solid safety record for long term use in clinical studies. Also, I don't think it would negatively impact at least the anxiolysis from a traditional benzo because it works on a rather different sub unit of the GABA-A receptor.
 
Another vote for mirtazapine. The first week on it kind of sucks but after that the next day grogginess goes away, quarter a pill if necessary. I always loved the dreams I had on it.
 
Rozereem is a new non narcotic sleep aid, its a strong version of melatonin somehow and it works pretty well
 
Remeron (mirtazapine) a hypnotic AD that knocks me out good, but sometimes leaves you groggy and you wanna sleep forever. Makes me hungrier than weed munchies, when in combo with marijuana it's crazy lol.

I like the idea Nately's Whore had, cycling the Remeron with seadative first-generation antihistamines: DPH and doxylamine succinate.

Always take your hypnotics alongside Melatonin for better REM sleep!
 
Cycling meds, even sleep meds, is generally not a good idea if one wants a stable psyche.

From my reading, I've concluded that Melatonin is overall the best sleep medication, assuming the condition isn't too severe.
 
I hate to play devil's advocate here, but the pot will probably cause less side-effects and sleep disruption than nearly all pharm sleep-aids. Nearly all of them, with the exception of temezepam, disrupt natural REM sleep cycles, so you're generally not going to get 'restorative sleep' whilst taking sleep medications.

5 mgs Melatonin + 500mg chelated magnesium + 100mg diphenhydramine might do the trick for easy to obtain otc meds, but I wouldn't keep it up for too long, at least not with the benadryl.

Do you have trouble falling asleep, or staying asleep? Do you wake up often during the night? These are relevant questions, as different meds will have different benefits and drawbacks insofar as treating your insomnia.
 
I'd suggest melatonin for two reasons:

1 Its an organic molecule made in your body, and has been studied and used MUCH longer than these other synthetics which CAN cause dependence (though rarely/never really addiction)

2 It works! And if you go low doses (1-5mg depending on your body) you wont wake up groggy

The others one this list are good as well but cause more dependence and can make you "forget" things that happen before you fall asleep, where melatonin just makes you really tired before you sleep. Diphenhydramine would be my second suggestion as it has been used longer and by more people than just about everything on this list, and has very low toxicity/side effects at the doses you would take for a sleep aid.

Hope this helps :)
 
Drinking a single 750 ml fifth per week for a couple months is practically nothing, dont you worry about lasting damage from that. Ive drank at least 5x as much per week for years, it took about 3 years for health problems to manifest for me at that dose (roughly a 750 ml fifth a day).

Awesome news regarding your sobriety. Im jealous:)
 
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