ECT for treatment-resistant depression? Experience??

[KiwiQflyer]

Wondering if anyone here has any experience with ECT for depression therapy--personal or second-hand. Have you or someone you know tried this as a treatment option for depression or depression-resistant therapy? What were the results?

I'm asking because I've been reading a lot about it lately and to be honest, it sounds like a feasible option. I'm enrolling in a clinical trial, but to be perfectly honest I don't hold out that much hope that I'll experience any effective results with the meds even if I don't end up in the placebo group. I've been dealilng with depression since I was a kid, but only started trying meds a few years ago. I know there are certainly people on here with more of a laundry list of attempted meds but I've tried multiple doses and combinations with Celexa, Wellbutrin, Prozac, Zoloft, Lamictal, Abilify, and Remeron. I've been in a pretty desparate state for a while and feel like it's a matter of when, not if. Ideally I'm happy to keep trying different medications and combinations, but if I'm to be realistic I don't know how long I can hold out hope and keep waiting for a solution with meds. I know typically most medications take a period of 30 to 60 days to reach efficacy levels and realistically I don't know that I can keep holding out for experimenting with that.

From what I've read there's been pretty good success with ECT resolving offering more immediate relief for suicidal ideations and major depression and then usually moving onto managing medication to prevent a future down-swing.

Any experience or thoughts?

 

[michael]

personally, the laundry list of possible side effects is enough to scare me away from it.

much love and light to you. i remember when you were a frequent poster in the lounge picture threads and happiness seemed to radiate from you. i hope you find your way back there.

 

[KiwiQflyer]

Thanks for the encouragement. If I'm to be honest, I've managed to portray that image to a lot of people irl as well, but it's always been a struggle. I've only recently started reading up on ECT but when it comes down to it, I'm really not that worried about any of the physical side effects about which I've read so far. I'm only asking about it because I feel like I'm running out of options. Having short-term or even temporary long-term memory loss doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me as opposed to the current alternative. Plus, I've already dealt with numerous physical and mental side effects from medication without any therapeutic benefit. There's always the risk with anti-depressants or anti-psychotics of increased suicidal ideation, but so far from what I've read that's not an immediate side effect of ECT.

 

[michael]

for me, the chance of memory loss is a real deal-breaker. i completely understand and empathize with the way you feel about it, though.

 

[Ody]

I have no concept of contemporary ECT, my family had negative experiences with it within the Twentieth century.

 

[JessFR]

Wondering if anyone here has any experience with ECT for depression therapy--personal or second-hand. Have you or someone you know tried this as a treatment option for depression or depression-resistant therapy? What were the results?

I'm asking because I've been reading a lot about it lately and to be honest, it sounds like a feasible option. I'm enrolling in a clinical trial, but to be perfectly honest I don't hold out that much hope that I'll experience any effective results with the meds even if I don't end up in the placebo group. I've been dealilng with depression since I was a kid, but only started trying meds a few years ago. I know there are certainly people on here with more of a laundry list of attempted meds but I've tried multiple doses and combinations with Celexa, Wellbutrin, Prozac, Zoloft, Lamictal, Abilify, and Remeron. I've been in a pretty desparate state for a while and feel like it's a matter of when, not if. Ideally I'm happy to keep trying different medications and combinations, but if I'm to be realistic I don't know how long I can hold out hope and keep waiting for a solution with meds. I know typically most medications take a period of 30 to 60 days to reach efficacy levels and realistically I don't know that I can keep holding out for experimenting with that.

From what I've read there's been pretty good success with ECT resolving offering more immediate relief for suicidal ideations and major depression and then usually moving onto managing medication to prevent a future down-swing.

Any experience or thoughts?

My mother had ECT when I was a kid, she was still depressed until the then relatively new SNRI's came out, only now she has permanent damage to her memory and time perception. She's always told me to avoid it like the plague.

I've also talked to a bunch of people who've had it done when I myself have been in mental institutions. Word of mouth was it does work for some people sometimes, but there's serious and often permanent side effects. My strong recommendation is to use it only as a last resort life or death option.

Part of the problem is, at least with my experience. Psychiatrists on the whole are not to be trusted. They misrepresent the currently known risks, always pretend they know everything and that every bad thing psychiatry is known for throughout history was simply "we didn't know as much back then" while never admitting that people 30 years from now may say the same thing about modern practices.

I'll be honest and say, my opinion on modern psychiatry is that the entire field should be disbanded and rolled into neurology and other real sciences. There is the occasional good psychiatrist but the majority I've seen tend to be utterly convinced of how godlike and unquestionable their knowledge base is and almost completely devoid of real science.

Anyways, ECT probably does help some people sometimes, but my view is it's a last resort option. You are taking a risk if you undergo it, and the risk of permanent side effects is significantly higher than most alternatives.

 

[KitCat]

Personally, I would never do it. During my hospital stays I spoke to quite a few people who had it... all of them said it didn't help them much for depression, if it did it was only temporary, for a week or two... and ALL of them had serious memory side effects. Like forgetting their child's entire growing up, not remembering their wedding day, to forgetting their friends names. That's not mild memory loss in my books, that's pretty horrible. I also spoke to a few people who were given ECT involuntarily (they do it in Australia) and they were so angry because of that. One lady told me she got PTSD due to involuntary ECT. She told me how she struggled with the staff every morning and they had to sedate her to subdue her and put her on a bed. Then after a couple of sessions she focused all her energy into pretending it was helping her just so they would stop giving her more treatments because she felt she was getting more and more brain damaged after each. Otherwise the people I spoke to told me they don't remember the treatment itself because it's done under anaesthesia and you don't actually feel any pain, you just wake up groggy and with a headache.

 

[Mariposa]

Kiwi, my mother was subjected involuntarily to ECT with high doses of benzodiazepines as anesthesia. Her brother, an anesthesiologist MD, ordered it. It was done to shut her up. I was removed from my mother's care by the state as a result.

I cannot recommend this treatment for a healthy, young, vibrant woman such as yourself. I am also not in a position to recommend anything as I don't have a medical degree. I have chosen a different path to deal with my depression - the path of least resistance. My diagnoses are panic disorder, PTSD, major depressive disorder. I have been sworn at in group therapy by veterans of war because they wanted their PTSD to outdo mine. No, I haven't seen combat, I had it in my own life, and I'm not in therapy to deal with problems I do not own. I dealt, and am continuing to deal with, my anxiety and depression through speaking with a competent professional. I recommend this course of action. It may have saved my life.

I think that ECT should be an absolute last resort. You are a young and active woman. My informal recommendation would be to talk to your friends and trusted family about your problems. ECT can downregulate several processes in a healthy brain. Memory loss is actually the least of it. Your brain is too much of an asset to shock into submission.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I know what it's like to battle suicidal ideation. And I'd rather keep having to battle it, even if I lost the war, if it meant I'd have to endure ECT (what a stupid name for it, it's no therapy!) to save my life.

Kiwi, my mother was subjected involuntarily to ECT with high doses of benzodiazepines as anesthesia. Her brother, an anesthesiologist MD, ordered it.

Again, wtf?! I thought being a doctor to your own family members was against the law!

...maybe it's just highly immoral.

Mariposa, I am so sorry what your mother had to go through, that's truly horrible, and it sounds like you did everything in your power to try to save her from such horrible suffering.

I have been sworn at in group therapy by veterans of war because they wanted their PTSD to outdo mine.

First, group therapy isn't really helpful, I don't recommend anyone do group therapy.

Second, wow, I'd have said "sir, do you enjoy having PTSD? Why don't you just live through your flashbacks by yourself if you enjoy it so much? We're here to get the fuck over this shit. Clearly, you are not."

 

[cook]

Yeah, the meds kind of suck, I've been there too. I don't know about ETC but have you thought giving ketamine a try? It's safe and easy, maybe trying it before ETC, I'm not saying you shouldn't do ETC if you have a chance maybe it's just a bit more risky than K but not too much. Hang in there.

 

[herbavore]

Kiwi, out of many friends that have had it--both involuntarily in the old days and "voluntarily" more recently---everyone except one has seen it as beyond useless; in other words, damaging as well as ineffective for the actual depression. The one friend that says it helps her to "reset" has done it voluntarily 3 times over her life. It does not cure anything but in her case she says it offers a very temporary relief when she is at her emotional flat-line.

Have you tried any other radical out-of-the-box experiences? (A wilderness trek?) Have you tried bio-feedback? That seems to work better with anxiety than with depression, but the two often go hand in hand. It is not instant and can take a while to master from my understanding but the reward is that you have actually changed your brain (not to mention the empowerment from seeing it is possible to do that).

Keeping up appearances of happiness and buoyancy can really work against you. It is so difficult because we can often see in others eyes how uncomfortable it is to not mask our unhappiness, but it is a no win situation. I find that letting others know our reality leads to more satisfying connections with people. The ones that can't handle it drop away and the ones that can go deeper and that is what we all crave.

Depression has so many roots. For me, it has always come back to fear of being myself. That may sound simplistic but when I really dig, that is what I find. Answering yes to myself instead of no, despite my often very rational fears, has been a lifelong struggle but one that gets easier as I try to practice it. Is there anything that is making you feel trapped or stuck besides the actual depression itself?

 

[onechance]

I had a course of 12 earlier this year. I would never have it again. "Memory loss" sounds so innocent but it's scary not knowing what's going on. Some of my memory has come back however a large chunk is gone for good. I'm not sure exactly how beneficial it was, I stopped having constant images of my death in my head but I still become suicidal at times, huge improvement though. My depression isn't completely gone it Just lifted me out of a really bad and unbearable situation. The effects apparently don't last longer than six months so it's not a cure you have to take meds or have maintenance ect afterwards.
I would strongly recommend against it if you have work/study/school or anything that requires you to know anything, interact with anyone or remember anything (conversations, people and situations included).
One thing that I think helped me is the break I got, it gave me an excuse to defer uni and take a break from everything for a few months, even being in a public psych ward had it's benefits (if you've been in one you know how shitty they are).
After my ect I went to Europe and hiking in Nepal for a month each and let me say that was a million times more beneficial so if you have the money... or find anything at all that forces a complete change in your life for a bit (can't escape yourself but a holiday can do wonders).
I started taking meds reliably on holiday, that made a huge difference.
Got to emphasise again, I'm better than before but I still have a lot of difficulty functioning due to depression.
Everyone is different but I think my experience is fairly typical.