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Ecstasy and the Law - Possession vs Trafficking

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xerionx

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
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Just wandering how many pills is considered trafficking in Victoria if found in one's posession?
 
3g in Victoria but i dont know if that includes binders etc. or they have to lab test it to get the purity and go by that.
So if it goes by weight of the pills, probably 12, considering most pills are 250mg wholel, but could be 9 or 10.

In the cases of people getting caught with an ounce of speed that is severley cut with an inert substance, or of very low purity/yield, their sentences were less harsh when the purity was asked to be found out in court, if it was say 5% pure etc. They should do this will pills. With LSD hits, they have their own seperate laws for divsersion vs possession vs trafficking
 
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Damn guys, I just spent 20 minutes researching the answer to that one...I was just about to come in here and post...

Just to add, from s 73(2) of Drugs Poisons and Controlled Substances Act:

"Where a person has in his possession, without being authorized by or licensed under this Act or the regulations to do so, a drug of dependence in a
quantity that is not less than the traffickable quantity applicable to that drug of dependence, the possession of that drug of dependence in that quantity is prima facie evidence of trafficking by that person in that drug of dependence."

Which in most jurisdictions means that you have to prove that you're innocent.
 
Thanks for that guys, now just need to find out how much on average a single pill weighs. I imagine it wouldnt take much to add upto 3grams, as far as I can understand from the Act. is that it includes the binders aswell, so itd go off the net weight.
 
An average pill is probably about 250mg (including binders). So it's only about 12 pills, maybe 10, maybe 15. Not a lot.
 
Each state has different laws but it is generally the weight of the admixture, regardless of purity, that is the relevant weight of drug possessed.

This can often have quite unfair consequences for MDMA. Given that it almost always comes in tablet form, the weight can get pretty high even though the number of tablets (i.e. hits) is quite modest. This unfairness is compounded given that the dose for MDMA is higher than methylamphetamine, yet most jurisdictions have the relevant threshold quantities for these two drugs as the same.

The purity of MDMA tablets is meaningless, it is of course the dose per tablet that is the relevant quantity. For powdered drugs the higher the purity the more serious it is considered by the courts, not only because it can be cut down but because high purity implies that the person is closer to the source of ultimate manufacture or importation. We know the latter is not always true, particularly given the explosion of crystal methylamphetamine.

Which in most jurisdictions means that you have to prove that you're innocent.
Click to expand...
These laws do not mean you must prove that you are innocent, but rather that the drugs were for personal use only (you may have meant that). It must still be proved beyond reasonable doubt that you were in possession of the drug. Possession requires you to have control over the drugs and the knowledge that you are in possession of them. It must be shown that you knew that the substance was a prohibited drug, or at least believed it to be (you need not know exactly what type of drug you have).

Once possession of more than a certain threshold amount is proved, then the person in possession of it must prove that it was only for personal use to avoid an intent to sell/supply or trafficking charge. Different states use different language and labels but I am pretty sure all would have laws of this sort. It makes sense, as proving intent is difficult, so the governments make you prove you did not have the requisite intent.

That is why it is so important, even if you do have more than the threshold amount, that you say nothing about any intention you had to share your drugs with friends or return them to the actual owner etc. Even though you might have considerably more than the threshold amount, you can still satisfy a Magistrate or a jury that any drugs possesed by you were for personal use only - particularly if you are not in possession of any other items indicative of drug dealing (e.g. bags, scales, cutting agent, lots of cash, SMS messages talking about sorting out friends!!) and can afford to purchase that quantity of drugs. Clearly the more you have the harder it becomes to do this.

Moral of the story is do not deal drugs and avoid being in possession of much more than the threshold amount at any one time. If you are, and you are caught, say nothing and you might get off with just possession.
 
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It is wise to add here I thought that if you are caught giving a pill to a friend, free or just hooking them up from your 5 pack or whatever, you get charged for Supply. In Queensland this means Supreme court, even if its like half a pill.
 
Wow... be careful over summer at the festivals kids. Just cause the drugs are everywhere doesn't mean you're not standing next to an undercover when you give your mate his next pill...
 
D's are starting to stick out less and less. They are young and wear branded new rich clothes and brand new caps etc.. it can be a dead givewaway sometimes, but when your intoxicated you won't notice. Watch out for anyone with a bumbag I have been told. Theres also paid informants all over the place, normally drug addicts who co-operate with police, maybe get a little something from evidence on the side.....
 
true, but the cops also use it to hide their notebook, badge, cuffs and pepperspray
 
Biscuit said:
These laws do not mean you must prove that you are innocent, but rather that the drugs were for personal use only (you may have meant that). It must still be proved beyond reasonable doubt that you were in possession of the drug. Possession requires you to have control over the drugs and the knowledge that you are in possession of them. It must be shown that you knew that the substance was a prohibited drug, or at least believed it to be (you need not know exactly what type of drug you have).
Click to expand...

Quite right, yes: I meant "innocent of trafficking", e.g. drugs for personal use only. My point was that the burden of proof becomes reversed - the prosecution doesn't have to prove that you were trafficking, you have to prove that you were not.

I'd suggest everyone re-read Biscuit's full post, which is excellent :)
 
I think a sticky explaining the possession vs trafficking laws as to each state would be nice :)
 
Maybe the thread should be the new trafficking thread for pills? I'm sure there are many threads in the past, maybe even with more info, but these links are all active so if someone wants to dig through the links finding recent updates, feel free :)


Info i got from the NDARC Study - Important results you should all read thread:

ruski said:
We have listed the gram amounts in each state for MDMA that can be judged "traffickable" amounts (i.e. drug dealing). We have also listed the websites in case you want more information regarding drug quantities and possession in each state and territory in Australia:


"Traffickable" amounts of MDMA across Australia

NSW: 0.75g or 5 pills [Link]

ACT: 0.5g [Link]

Victoria: 3g [ Link]

Tasmania: 10g [Link]

South Australia: 0.5g [Link]

Western Australia: 4g results in a court trial [Link]

Northern Territory: 0.5g [Link]

Queensland: 2g [Link]
Click to expand...



Tronica said:
Let's say a pill weighs 250 to 300 mg (to be on safe side)

NSW: 0.75g or 5 pills

3 pills could weigh more than 0.75g, and thus would attract a trafficking charge. Although we'd have to look into it more, I'd say this rule would be applied so that if you have more than 0.75g OR 5 or more pills, traffickable charges could be applied. 4 pills would have to weigh less than average to fall under 0.75g.

ACT: 0.5g
Wow, 2 pills would easily be enough to weigh 0.5g!

Victoria: 3g
(This is 10 pills at 300mg each. )

Tasmania: 10g
This is 33 pills at 300 mg each!

South Australia: 0.5g
Same as ACT, only 1 pill could be carried without attracting a trafficking charge.

Western Australia: 2g (according to Tribesman?) to 4g
2g = 8 250mg pills or 6.67 300mg pills. It looks like carrying a 5-pack would not attract trafficking charges in WA.

Northern Territory: 0.5g
Same as ACT, only 1 pill could be carried without attracting a trafficking charge.

Queensland: 2g
Same as WA, 5 pills could be carried without attracting a trafficking charge.


*disclaimer* of course you still risk possession/use charges carrying any amounts. Hopefully these numbers of pills will be a sobering reminding of how little drugs people have to have on them to potentially deal with a trafficking offence - which is much more serious than possession/use!

Be aware of your state/territory's rules for your own protection
Click to expand...
 
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There is a fact sheet for Victoria drug laws here

The definition of “drug trafficking” includes preparing, manufacturing and selling a drug of dependence, as well as exchanging, agreeing or offering to sell, arranging for someone to sell to another person, buying on someone else’s behalf and possession with the intention of selling the drug. Making a gift is not considered a trafficking offence.
Click to expand...

So you could be charged with trafficking with only one pill in your possession, if you met any of the other criteria above - normally because you can't keep your trap shut and you admit to something...
 
Out of curiosity what kind of penalties would a first time offender be looking at if they were caught trafficing anywhere from 3g to 100pills etc. Know so many kids moving gear so casually, do they just get a warning or is prison time a posability?
 
Depends on the state and priors, if they get a lawyer, the judge. Too many variables. If they don't goto court well presented and represented you could see jail time. However a Trafficking Record doesnt look too good either. Even if you got a suspended sentence with probation / community service, or weekend prison. Better hope they're not just your average drop kick derro meth head. The judge takes into account pleads of guilty, co-operation with police, your story, education, bsuiness/work (present or future), overseas travel (say for working) etc. If they have no priors in violence, rape or drugs, then they may skip jail, but if you drag it on and on the penalty might be quite harsh. Remember the max penalty is like 10-25 years depend on the state. But no one gets that unless they've been pinched doing the same shit multiple times and is just a no-hoper.
 
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