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EADDs - Heroin the great debate

i personally have never really gone overboard with any other drug than MDMA and that fucked me up to the point that i could not see any point in life at all (talking from a chronic depressive perspective, not this, oh i've sudden gone all malaise). i wish that period never happened. at this point i was 6 months since first doing h. bought a g of really good shit aiming to kill myself, railed a line and was like "well fuck it, everythings ok, what was i getting ma nickers twisted up for?" and from then addiction is simple.

psychologically, if you go beyond every few months, you're fucked. it's just on your mind too much and you want it too much. due to the MDMA induced crazyness i'm currrently living with my parents and my grandpa is visiting in a week and the first thing i thought? "that motherfucker has a temegsic script! some of that gonna go in a pin!". obviously i feel bad about that. obviously i feel bad about making my parents question themselves (they aren't the types to kick me out whilst i'm paying them rent and have a job to pay for shit). i'm not running from anything. the high of heroin is just fucking good and blows any hours of therapy or anti-depressants out the water.

physically, you've got to work to get bad wd's. due to finances i'm currently say, week on, week off, iv, smoked. the worst i get is running nose, shits, cramps, full body pain, and i get thru half g every couple days. nothing to write home about. and i'm a year in, probably only 3 weeks without any opiate.

addicts have no one to blame but themselves, background obv has an influence on who will get hooked (e.g. my ex had fucked up treatment since birth, and would get other people hooked to control them), but some people just like to get fucked up. i know in my heart of hearts that i should quit all this shit right now or i'm going to throw all my potential into a syringe and push it into nowhere but i'd rather get high.

heroin addicts relationship for some reason seems similar to masta ace's relationship to hip hop. which is a similie i guess only certain people would understand
 
^^

Professor Nutt(sac) was saying addicts have some kind of gene or substance in their brains that react more strongly to drugs than in other people.
 
BecomingJulie said:
I reckon if you can go through a full cluck with a wrap of gear in your bedside drawer, you've little to worry about.
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I dont know if I'd be able to resist the temptation if I had a bag in arms reach (or anywhere at all about the local), however I have upon many instances done a cluck with money about my person, also whilst ignoring incoming calls begging me to buy their 'dynamite-rocketful-knockout-gear'...which generally tended to disappoint.

Question: I wonder, how many of you who have IV'd prefer to smoke instead? Considering the preference is based upon actually favouring the comparibly low-level sensation one gets from smoking rather than the smack of the rush one recieves from the pin. I always found the rush to be over far too fast; leaving me wanting to buy another bag 1-2hrs later and just whack it onto some jimmy following a few tinnies or a fine wine...
 
charlie clean said:
. It takes at least 9 months of pretty determined use to develop a physical habit and, if you leave it 72 hours between doses often enough so you can leave it 72 hours, even then you avoid actual dependency. Certainly in the early stages, 'addiction' is psychological and you can argue it's mainly those with an 'addictive personality' who wind up strung out.
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I'm not sure if this is one of the 'controversial views' about heroin that atm wanted to be posted in this thread. I have to say straight away that ive never even seen heroin in person, let alone even tried it, the closest ive been to it, is having met and known a few addicts, so have no idea about the time it takes to become dependant on heroin, so maybe im not 'qualified' to post in this thread at all.

Maybe this was a deliberate 'troll' post, designed to stir things up, and 'get the thread going' ? I would think that if that has been your experience Charlie, then you must have a fortunate psychological and physical 'make up'.

Whilst i have never used heroin i have used other opiates, so i hope that at least partially 'qualifies' me to post here.

I started using o-dt last year, (many people, usually those who have never tried it, dismisss this substance as weak shit, but i can directly compare it to oxy, having 'dabbled' a bit with that, and IMO o-dt is only slightly weaker than oxy, and oxy is regarded as a strong opi ? I used to need 150 mg of o-dt to get a good buzz going and 120mg of oxy to do the same - so their strength is very simillar IMO).

I very quickly became psychologically and physically addicted to o-dt. I planned to use it only once or twice a week, but very quickly i was using daily, at first i would use in the evenings only for a week or so and then stop. I experienced mild flu like symptoms for a day or two after these short binges. When it became clear that o-dt wasnt going to be around for long i started to stockpile as much of it as i could. I ended up with enough to last me a few months.

As i didnt like the withdrwal symptoms of stopping, mild as they were, i decided that i would continue to use daily until my supply ran out, rather than stop and start every week or so. This way i would only have to go through one withdrawl at the end, when my stash ran out. So this went on for a couple of months. Before long i was waking up with withdrwal symptoms, and had to dose 100 mg first thing in the morning, and then top up again at mid day, and then use more in the evenings to get so properly and joyously high, that i would be singing and whistling my happy heart out at top volume all evening long. It was such a great time. I loved that i didnt give a shit 'what will the neighbours think'...

Anyway, when my supply ran out, i experienced definate physical withdrawls. The first day without was the longest, most depressing day of my life. I had no energy whatsoever, could barely move, felt light headed and weak, hot and cold at the same time, slept for hours thanks to copious etizolam and pregabalin. Second day i think the pissing shit began. This lasted days and days. What was that all about, if there is no physical withdrawl. Still continued to feel very weak and energy-less. After 3 or 4 days i was physically well again. I had regained my energy, but the frequent pissing of shit, lasted several more days.... The next thing to hit me was the severest of depression i had felt for years. This was so bad i couldnt cope with it for more than a day or 2, and began desperately searching for replacement opis. I got burned several times trying to score oxy and morphine off some dodgy websites. My depression would be immediately relieved when i knew i had found a reliable dealer that would deliver. Even before i had the substance in my body, my depression would be lifted by just knowing some lovely opis were on their way....

I then discovered poppy pods. I know they are a weak source of opi. But if you take several grams of them, i was up to 90 grams a day at one point, and then i would re-use that 90 grams of mush, which might have yielded another 10-30 grams of opis (not sure about that.)

Anyway, sorry if this is tldr;

in summary i dont believe that "It takes at least 9 months of pretty determined use to develop a physical habit" is true. As well as from my own experience with other opis, charlies view goes against the vast majority of other sources of info ive encountered , that usually agree that people can get physically dependant on opis very quickly.

It even says on those packets of co-codamal that contain 8mg of codeine per pill "do not use for more than 3 days as physical addiction can occur" although that is a bit of a joke, and the direct polarized opinion of Charlie's view. Although i cant be sure and it may be like Charlie says, and i may just be one of 'those with an 'addictive personality' who wind up strung out'.....
 
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I think a big problem is when you dabble, so know how nice it is, then put it to one side. Maybe for years, Until something really shitty happens in life and you bump into your old friend again. Your defences are low, you're low, you don't have the presence of mind to monitor usage rates or tolerance, you just want to get high. And then you've got your habit.

You can't turn to something your not aware of, so really it was that first non habit forming dabble that led to the second encounter, maybe years later.
 
we are talking about smack here aren't we? Not opiates in general...one of the big issues for us gear heads is the draw of the needle or the ritual of chasing the dragon, it's so fucking grimy but fun as hell=DPlus you can pop into any public convenience and fix. Loves it
 
Heroin came in2 my life at a time when i had lots of money & was very emotionally vunerable . Within a few months i was doing it every day .
My problems really started when i sought treatment. but that be a whole different story.
 
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today i acquired some pharmaceutical diamorphine. basically, it didn't feel as good as average street gear (iv'd), felt too clean. anyone else had the same experience? not sure if i didn't do enough or if it just doesn't have the same balance of alkaloids, or if it's purely a mental perception.

also, anyone know the best way to cover up track marks? i'm currently living with my dad (i'm 21, got kicked out by my gf few months ago, got mad depression, couldn't work etc. moving out in a month tho woo!) who knows about my heroin use but who i've agreed to stop iv'ing for, i prefer to smoke brown anyway, but had an unexpected binge of IV ethylphenidate which gave me a load of marks (20+ injections in 24hrs of that corrosive shit, none of them missed but reused rigs etc).

i used to just wear long sleeve t shirts but whenever i do now he gets suspicious, i've found that antiseptic cream + moisturiser + concealer works ok to hide the marks, any other suggestions (besides wear a jumper) to cover up the marks for a couple days til they go themselves?
 
i against i said:
today i acquired some pharmaceutical diamorphine. basically, it didn't feel as good as average street gear (iv'd), felt too clean. anyone else had the same experience? not sure if i didn't do enough or if it just doesn't have the same balance of alkaloids, or if it's purely a mental perception.
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I've read and heard similar from those who've had the pleasure of real diamorphine. Just doesn't feel quite as warm, cosy and itchy apparently. I'd say you might be on to something with the alkaloid-balance hypothesis, though it could be the difference between freebase and hydrochloride. Or even purely psychological, as you suggest.

Then again, alprazolam and barbs show up regularly in contemporary street 'heroin', so that could also be a factor.

Re: use becoming habitual far easier during bad times - absolutely spot-on. The last time I got a habit (and I don't for one second consider my experiences on the same level as the long-termers on this forum) was when I was being evicted and splitting up with my girlfriend. And the scariest thing was I didn't even notice it happening. I'm sure that's a story familiar to many.
 
i against i Vitamin E is supposed to be good, I've used it for other things but I understand it works well for healing of all sorts, In used to just cut open a gel cap and apply the oily solution, worth a try.
 
SamhainGrim said:
Re: use becoming habitual far easier during bad times - absolutely spot-on. The last time I got a habit (and I don't for one second consider my experiences on the same level as the long-termers on this forum) was when I was being evicted and spliting up with my girlfriend. And the scariest thing was I didn't even notice it happening. I'm sure that's a story familiar to many.
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Hell yeah. My most recent case of this involved nailing 5 g of methoxetamine in about a week (the previous 5g batch lasted 6 weeks and the stuff i did in the single week was consumed after the ban!). Under sudden unexpected circumstances i was thrown out of my house (broke) and found my self living with some nutbag (who metamorphosed as my stalker when i escaped from that place at the end of the week. Obviously Methox isn't the same as gear but i figured i'd tell it anyway as i have enjoyed reading peoples personal experiences in the thread but haven't posted in a bit. That said, they both kill pain and send you off into dreamland for seeming eternity (though methox obviously wears off a hell of a lot quicker, leaving nothing but sore teeth and insomnia while heroin just has you lying on a bed/couch/floor somewhere with the inability to piss for fucking days - or thats what it felt like anyway).
 
I know what you mean about pharm diamorphine I Against I - although I gotta say I still love the feeling of it. It's a cleaner high for sure and I found I could only do so much before it became too intense with nausea and feeling on the edge of slipping out. Street heroin does seem to have as more 'complete' stone, physically and mentally BUT... once you get used to the pure stuff it's just as enjoyable. I guess it's a bit like someone who loves beer switching to whisky - very bad comparison but you get what I mean.

When I first got hold of a load I only did up to 25mg in a shot, any more would be, as said, nauseating and just too intense. I remember doing 25mg then about 5mins later I did another 5mg and almost passed out. Further down the line I got some more once my habit had increased and could easily shoot 40mg+, definitely+ over an evening! Was fucking lovely.

I'm guessing street H has a fair amount of other psychoactive chems in there whereas diamorphine is just that. However, I'd still take the sterility, cleanliness and mental comfort (plus the relief of every problem/worry you ever had!!) of diamorph over "what the fuck's in that?!" street gear.
 
My 2 cents..... '9 months of using to get a habit??? - 2-3 weeks of daily use and you will cluck like a good un

Pharm - DM is IMO not as good as heroin probably because street smack has other opiates in it thebaine, codeine, morphine depending on how it was maufactured where as DM is pure.
 
blondin said:
My 2 cents..... '9 months of using to get a habit??? - 2-3 weeks of daily use and you will cluck like a good un

Pharm - DM is IMO not as good as heroin probably because street smack has other opiates in it thebaine, codeine, morphine depending on how it was maufactured where as DM is pure.
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i guess it depends on how quickly you go from occaisional to daily. it was a few months after the first time before i had any physical withdrawal. got it nice now tho, the not sleeping is the worst for me.
 
blondin said:
My 2 cents..... '9 months of using to get a habit??? - 2-3 weeks of daily use and you will cluck like a good un
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Easy. Bad enough after a couple of weeks the first time you experience what withdrawal really feels like. Nothing you've ever read up about it really prepares you for it and still relatively minor symptoms at that stage. Month, two months? Seriously bad. Most will not be able to bail at that point IME. Of my circle who started dabbling with H, 8 out of ten went on to long-term habits. The two that escaped were never daft enough to do it daily. Once in a blue moon, take it or leave it.

BecomingJulie said:
The thing about clucking is, it won't actually kill you. Although there may well be times when you won't actually consider this to be a benefit.
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Hahaha! Yes, exactly! :)

i against i said:
i guess it depends on how quickly you go from occaisional to daily. it was a few months after the first time before i had any physical withdrawal. got it nice now tho, the not sleeping is the worst for me.
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That's what always broke me. I'd get through the 5 days, did it many times, CT and everything but there comes a point when you're just so desperate for a sleep all the resolve with the best of intentions just breaks down and evaporates. 7, 14, 21 days with no sleep whatsoever your head's just inside out, don't know what you're fucking doing with yerself anymore. It's just pure mental torture plain and simple, absolutely fucking relentless.
 
I've never withdrawn of heroin, though i've been around other people coming of it, but i've withdrawn off quite heavy combos of tramadol and benzo's/ gbl at the same time. Never again have i let myself to use too much of both those at the same time - now, worst comes to worst i can briefly switch all to one if i suddenly run out the other.
Its intetesting that there seems to be a bit of variation in duration of use leading to heavy withdrawals. From what i've learned in pharmacology books it seems that tolerance and withdrawal are two sides of the same coin, so one of the most important indicators would be how much the use has escalated. I got so sick of going CT on all those benzo's etc that i changed tactic and started keeping a drug diary instead. It worked wonders for me - energy came back, tramadol overuse headaches improved. The point though is that i probably only reduced my weekly usage by about 30% over 3months or so before levelling out, but that 30% turned out to be a "big 30%" if you get what i mean. I have to say though that everytime i did one of my four sleepless night tramadol CT's i kept thinking how glad i was that i never got hooked on heroin instead, especially not as my first addiction and still being fairly young at the time as well.
 
From what i've learned in pharmacology books it seems that tolerance and withdrawal are two sides of the same coin, so one of the most important indicators would be how much the use has escalated
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Yeah definitely, this is why the whole 'how long you can be on opiates before suffering w/d's when you stop' thing can vary so much. When I first started I could go for weeks on end and just feel slightly grumpy and sore when I ran out. But within a few years, I got to the point where even 4 - 5 days of heavy use would leave me feeling like shit for 2 or 3 days afterwards. Not full blown trainspotting craziness, but nasty aches and pains, sweaty, chills, nose running all over the place.

Thank god for bupe.
 
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