this is why I think it should be renamed 'The ask a religious a bigot thread'
I'm not aware of displaying any bigotry in this thread. I have only tried clearing up misconceptions about homophobia existing in Christian beliefs.
You, however, are a bigot.
Here is you attempting to target myself with religious abuse, as some kind of personal attack.
By definition you are, demonstrably and undeniably, a complete bigot. A lot of people will disagree with my opinions on here - let's face it, religion is unlikely to be popular on a drugs forum - but only you, could I rightly describe as a bigot. So forgive me for finding the above statement somewhat hypocritical.
If you think I'm a bigot also, fine. But please show me where on this thread I am displaying bigotry, as I have done for you. If you can't, that would make you a hypocrite also and perhaps would be suggestible that you left the thread alone, as I think it's very clear to see that you're just using it as an outlet for your own prejudices/bigotry and not much honest theological discussion is apparant.
Ooh there's one of those stray apostrophes again! :D
So pedantic it's almost funny. It seems, despite trying hard, you can't really find holes in the religious theology I presented, so you're actually turning to my grammar instead. At this point it's clear that discussing this any further with you is a waste of time, it's not even about theology to you - just about scoring a point, whether that be over grammar or the actual discussion is regardless.
Shambles said:
So does god hates infertile couples more or less than he hates gays?
Come on Shammy, stop winding the poor guy up.
It wasn't a wind-up it's a legitimate question given the line of reasoning and quotes he's using to make his point
It's a genuine attempt to catch out the Christian, but not worded particularly favourably and has a reek of his typical attitude of bias/opposition, that I'm quite familiar with.
I've been having religious discussions like this with Shambles, on and off for nearly 10 years. He is one of the more knowledgeable atheists I've met, has a very genuine interest in the subject and I enjoyed discussing his personal experiences in trying to understand and relate to the church. That aside, he still comes across as biased as hell against anything Christian related! Any argument presented as "So God hates gays" simply isn't worth responding too, I can already see exactly the way this one is headed, so am not wasting time over these pedantic questions as I have time and time before.
I said it was bollocks because the bit i quoted was plainly talking about real death of real homosexuals (and whisperers) and not nuanced spiritual death - you've added that by linking it to another bit elsewhere in Romans (funny how you can do this interpretation for death, but not homosexuality).
Nice to see structured theological arguments with scripture references on; I'm enjoying this now. Though I do now feel that you're flogging a horse I've already rebuked to death with this homophobia malarkey. This verse is not referring to death in the form of capital punishment, I thought I'd made this clear in my previous post by quoting Romans 8 : 6
"6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace," where death refers to the spiritual.
As you have not accepted this reply, I will go into more detail by looking at other related verses in the bible.
Death in the sense of capital punishment here makes no sense at all, when looking at the bible in context. You've just been given 4 gospels where Jesus is talking against capital punishment (John 6), and preaching against the "law of Moses" and the barbarism that came with it. Would Paul, who is trying to create a church based on the teachings of Jesus Christ really start to preach of capital punishment?? Could he possibly be that daft, when trying to establish what is later to become the worlds largest religion!?
Common sense tells us it's very unlikely the definition of "death" is referring to an earthly death as punishment. Reading on through Romans and passages throughout the NT, it becomes clear that the use of the word "death" is describing a spiritual death. I already exemplified this in Romans 8:6, other examples in the bible may include
John 8:51 - Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."
Romans 5:12 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
The difference being buddhism went on about that stuff 5 centuries before jesus came along - and as i suggested, there was a definite chance for buddhism and hinduism to have a direct influence on how christianity developed .
A bit besides the point and extremely contentious suggestion. Despite wondering who came up with the idea first, fact remains the principle ideology in religions often has very similar ground, particularly with reference to sexual sin and harm to the soul.
Thanks also Curious and England for commendations, I never expect them here so that came as a welcome surprise.
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