My understanding of UK slang is limited, no offense, but are you saying that you got good dope? Real heroin? I am not a user and I am certainly not sourcing.
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EADD Heroin thread v.XXV -- a quarter centuary of threads if not yet a full decade since the 'drought'...
- Thread starter Wilson Wilson
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Señor Moreno
Bluelighter
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- Apr 27, 2022
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Yes, they are saying that, they are getting the real deal. They have indeed good and legit afghan heroin in UK. Good prizes and constant supply, also
AlsoTapered
Bluelighter
The people who bring Afghan H into Europe have been doing so since the 1980s and so supply routes are well established. In the 60s to early 80s (when the market was much smaller) real 'number 4' heroin from South East Asia was the de facto standard being about 90% pure (the rest being caffeine added to make it smokable). I understand their is still a small amount of number 4 reaching the UK but the prices are very high - for people who are in the lucky position of not having to worry about price. It's snortable as well.
While brown H is still available for £10/point (which is has been for 30+ years so in real terms the price has gone down dramatically), people will still be able to sell it.
As I noted, the very bottom of the pile are people who are buying £5 'bits' of H and stone (five for £20) because to these people, price is a much more important factor.
As I understand it, before fentanyl, the Mexicans had been producing and importing H to the USA so no change in the supply chain, just a change of product and crucially, no competition.
Eastern Europe has seen fentanyl derivatives turning up for over a decade but for most of Europe it's the nitazenes that are turning up in some places. I'm GUESSING that people are selling it on the darkweb as it's only turning up in small geographic areas.
What is interesting is in the UK at least, people caught selling H cut with nitazenes were given substantially longer prison sentences. It remains to be seen if that will make any difference.
One worrying thing is that the nitazenes appear to be superagonists. That means that substitution therapy will be less effective. People who DO get into nitazenes are getting into something worse than either H or fentanyl.
While brown H is still available for £10/point (which is has been for 30+ years so in real terms the price has gone down dramatically), people will still be able to sell it.
As I noted, the very bottom of the pile are people who are buying £5 'bits' of H and stone (five for £20) because to these people, price is a much more important factor.
As I understand it, before fentanyl, the Mexicans had been producing and importing H to the USA so no change in the supply chain, just a change of product and crucially, no competition.
Eastern Europe has seen fentanyl derivatives turning up for over a decade but for most of Europe it's the nitazenes that are turning up in some places. I'm GUESSING that people are selling it on the darkweb as it's only turning up in small geographic areas.
What is interesting is in the UK at least, people caught selling H cut with nitazenes were given substantially longer prison sentences. It remains to be seen if that will make any difference.
One worrying thing is that the nitazenes appear to be superagonists. That means that substitution therapy will be less effective. People who DO get into nitazenes are getting into something worse than either H or fentanyl.
AlsoTapered
Bluelighter
While it's only a single, limited study using animal models, it does rather appear that nitazenes are even more dangerous and dependence is potentially harder to treat.
With both classes, it's mainly the simplicity of the synthesis that makes them attractive. BUT I note that China has now made the fentanyl precursors controlled chemicals so now the Chinese are selling pre-precursors.
My own GUESS is that their are now people in Mexico who aren't making fentanyl but are converting those pre-precursors into precursors. Why? Because it then means the telescoped fentanyl synthesis can be used without modification (which means semi-skilled workers can make it) and because while the precursors are illegal in China, they aren't illegal in Mexico itself so potentially splitting the production of precursors off into a LEGAL business enterprise (and no doubt charging a suspiciously large amount for said precursors), the Cartels can make more of the profit in what are technically legal business enterprises.
I am guessing, but it is based on similar things being done in other fields.
I have seen footage of the " chemists" who are making the stuff. They could probably be the same illiterate thugs who make meth. As far as legal, no way. The Mexican politicians would not allow that.
There is no bribe money if it is legal there.
There is no bribe money if it is legal there.
AlsoTapered
Bluelighter
By 'stuff' do you mean the precursors or fentanyl?
I've seen footage of a group of guys making fentanyl in the middle of a field. They most certainly appeared to be 'cooks' i.e. people who are taught a single synthetic step by rote but don't actually know what is going on in the reaction vessel.
I presumed they were simply adding propanoic anhydride to 4-ANPP (or homologue). They noted that a faint 'popcorn' odour was the sign that all was well (not very scientific). Makes sense as at low concentrations, propionic acid (a product of the synthesis) does smell like popcorn (I am told).
How Fentanyl Is Synthesized in Mexico
China, India, and other chemical hubs are most likely still producing fentanyl, but Mexican criminal groups are producing it as well.
insightcrime.org
As I mentioned, I believe 4-ANPP is now controlled in China and so 1-boc-4-AP are being imported along with 2-phenylethane-1,1-diol (easily converted to phenylacetaldehyde which when reacted, form 4-ANPP.
To the best of my knowledge, 4-ANPP isn't controlled within Mexico but it's synthesis ISN'T something one would perform in a field. So while the final synthesis IS rather simple, converting those pre-precursors into 4-ANPP ISN'T. I may be out of data but I know Mexico has traditionally been slow in legally controlling precursors.
AlsoTapered
Bluelighter
God knows what is in that black sludge. I'm presuming it undergoes some form of purification but that wasn't filmed.
I've noted the same pattern in European amphetamine production. I've seen images of labs in six or seven nations that all looked like they had been set up by the same person. No glass, stainless steel with beer barrels as reaction vessels.
I think someone is going around setting up the labs and showing the 'cooks' how to do the job and moving on. If you are sat in a lab for weeks or months... it's not a case if IF you are caught, merely a case of WHEN.
I've noted the same pattern in European amphetamine production. I've seen images of labs in six or seven nations that all looked like they had been set up by the same person. No glass, stainless steel with beer barrels as reaction vessels.
I think someone is going around setting up the labs and showing the 'cooks' how to do the job and moving on. If you are sat in a lab for weeks or months... it's not a case if IF you are caught, merely a case of WHEN.
There are plenty of unemployed/underemployed former Soviet block chemists. Also as far as meth, even illiterate hillbillies can make meth. There are also plenty of foreign " advisors" from all over who could teach them. There are global crime syndicates, who can teach people.
Besides Putin and the Chinese have plans to build a new Silk Road( not the darknet drug markets).
Weaken the western democracies. Then they can have more control. Putin can rebuild the Soviet Empire sans the communism.
Fent will be able to fund the greedy ruthless organized crime groups as the west crumbles. Like I have said before making fent does not depend on opium cultivation.
Then there are other conspiracy theories.
But also there are no shortage of chemists who need/ want money. Besides if one man can help countries build nukes, making drugs would be like teaching people to make Jello molds.
Get a bunch of guys who need/want quick money and give them each one job. Assembly line, kind of like Detroit in the past. ( Yes there are still auto plants in metro Detroit).
People are disposable to the Cartels and other groups and do you think they care about polluting?).
Political corruption and all that; the future is bleak.
AlsoTapered
Bluelighter
But as long a H is still able to fulfil the market, it's going to be much more of a struggle to try to get fentanyl (or nitazenes) accepted.
Don't forget, fentanyl has been seen in Europe (make in the Baltic nations) but it's a much worse product.
While H is still available, people will choose H. It's only if you already controlled the H distribution and could simply swap product and thus give people no option that it will be accepted.
H is NOT that expensive to produce. The bulk prices have been crashing for the last few years which MAY be in response to fentanyl, but the fact remains that fentanyl is a DLR.
I've mentioned it before, but compared to the size and profitability of the cocaine market, H is not a huge moneymaker.
A smart chemist would be looking for a synthetic alternative to cocaine, not heroin.
Don't forget, fentanyl has been seen in Europe (make in the Baltic nations) but it's a much worse product.
While H is still available, people will choose H. It's only if you already controlled the H distribution and could simply swap product and thus give people no option that it will be accepted.
H is NOT that expensive to produce. The bulk prices have been crashing for the last few years which MAY be in response to fentanyl, but the fact remains that fentanyl is a DLR.
I've mentioned it before, but compared to the size and profitability of the cocaine market, H is not a huge moneymaker.
A smart chemist would be looking for a synthetic alternative to cocaine, not heroin.
Methamphetamine has replaced cocaine in many areas. Crack also has been replaced by it in many areas of North America.
I disagree a smart chemist would make something that he could patent and sell for a lot of money legally. Also something needed and useful. Nobel prize and something they could sell the patent for serious money. Money and respect.
AlsoTapered
Bluelighter
There are some VERY good targets that would be extremely potent (400-600 xM) with a long duration and similar subjective effect to desomorphine. BUT it cannot be patented. Or, rather, any patent would be extremely narrow.
A new medicine takes on average 13 years to receive a ML after patenting and generally their will be a couple of years (at least) development of a new candidate drug. Oh, and an average cost of $2.8 billion. ONE chemist does not develop a totally new medicine from scratch. It's teams of people. Just because only one or two names appear on the patent doesn't mean only one or two people worked on it.
But exactly why would you think that such a design would ever be developed? Why on earth would another opioid find clinical use let alone win a Nobel prize?
So no - a single, SMART chemist would work out holes in the laws of their target markets and produce something highly euphoric (NOT what is wanted in a medicine) and highly potent (so a single person in a small lab can produce enough).
Coke is still MASSIVE worldwide. In Europe especially. In 2021 it's estimated that 2306 metric tonnes of cocaine were consumed compared to 340 tonnes of heroin,
Don't forget - the VAST majority of the world's population doesn't live in the USA. Europe is a larger consumer, Russia is a consumer and so is China (although figures for both are largely unavailable). Yes, all these places have meth, but cocaine is where the money is.
A new medicine takes on average 13 years to receive a ML after patenting and generally their will be a couple of years (at least) development of a new candidate drug. Oh, and an average cost of $2.8 billion. ONE chemist does not develop a totally new medicine from scratch. It's teams of people. Just because only one or two names appear on the patent doesn't mean only one or two people worked on it.
But exactly why would you think that such a design would ever be developed? Why on earth would another opioid find clinical use let alone win a Nobel prize?
So no - a single, SMART chemist would work out holes in the laws of their target markets and produce something highly euphoric (NOT what is wanted in a medicine) and highly potent (so a single person in a small lab can produce enough).
Coke is still MASSIVE worldwide. In Europe especially. In 2021 it's estimated that 2306 metric tonnes of cocaine were consumed compared to 340 tonnes of heroin,
Don't forget - the VAST majority of the world's population doesn't live in the USA. Europe is a larger consumer, Russia is a consumer and so is China (although figures for both are largely unavailable). Yes, all these places have meth, but cocaine is where the money is.
Zopiclone bandit
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2018
- Messages
- 12,155
Zopiclone bandit
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2018
- Messages
- 12,155
Sounds like what is around here off one guy I know well.
Its fucki g ridiculously strong no sleep last night, itching like a thousand mossy bites, I very rarely give 10 blondins but do so on this occasion. Had .6 24h ago still got a point left.
@AlsoTapered always been .2 for a tenner here unless it's a street shooter.
Zopiclone bandit
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2018
- Messages
- 12,155
LMAO
I've been around here for long enough to know how old you are & your experience in this game so that must be better than I had.
You had decades in the game when my mom was wondering if she should have given my Dad a blowjob instead.
I was referring to products other than recreational drugs when talking about a smart chemist. Chemists don't have to be criminals to make money or be responsible for more drugs to abuse. There are other products chemists make