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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

EADD Heroin thread v.XXV -- a quarter centuary of threads if not yet a full decade since the 'drought'...

specialrelativity said:
I have an idea what heroin is like, but have yet to try it personally.. it's the only drug I have NOT tried personally yet. looking forward to it, though, some day. :)
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I would also advise you give it a wide birth, it's not worth the risk of liking it too much. People often trick themselves into thinking about using sporadically but end up fully fledged addicts. It's seriously not a good idea to try it.
 
Drugs like crack and H definitely deserve their reputations as life destroyers.
Stick with party drugs like MDMA - you'll get as much euphoria, it's just different. With heroin you get that peace and loved up feeling, but it's a dreamy downer. The people you may end up socialising with will often be out to rip you off. You can't trust heroin addicts - when you're nodding out, theyre probably rifling through your shit and stealing. Using alone poses the risk of OD, less so with smoking.

One thing is that there's a technique to smoking which takes repeated attempts to master and get a good nod. This makes using once underwhelming cos you burn or don't suck up enough smoke, so you'll want to try again to hone your skills.
There's a bizarre sense of achievement when you get good at smoking, and this feeling makes it more addictive. Similar to taking pride in washing up powder coke into good crack.

There's no glamour to that life at all. I know people have written beautiful music about it, but it's always cautionary at heart. The needle and the damage done.

Friends and family find out - that's it you're a fucking junkie to them forever, the stigma is so bad.

Please reconsider. If you get injured and prescribed codeine or a shit of morphine, heroin is pretty much the same. It's just another opiate. I got as high taking a high dose of codeine when I had zero tolerance. If you've had any opiate painkiller, you've got the heroin experience. It's just strong and can be injected for a rush.

It feels very nice, but the suffering outweighs the highs by a massive margin. Reconsider @specialrelativity

It could save your life. That's my 2p anyway, there was no telling me when I was young and arrogant enough to believe I could handle opiates, but I fell in love so fast and it's fucked up my life in so many ways.
 
axe battler said:
I would also advise you give it a wide birth, it's not worth the risk of liking it too much. People often trick themselves into thinking about using sporadically but end up fully fledged addicts. It's seriously not a good idea to try it.
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I wouldn't exactly say that as a blanket statement. I don't generalise from my own experience or that of other addicts, because that gives a skewed picture of 'this drug is somehow MORE addictive than all other drugs, try it once and you're doomed for life'. As a matter of fact it was precisely this implicit belief which landed ME in addiction, because nowhere did I hear the message that it's even POSSIBLE to use this drug in a non-addictive manner, or that it didn't instantly get you hooked.

Imagine how many more alcoholics we'd have if we told people the same about alcohol -?
'one drink and you're done.'
'it's impossible to use alcohol in moderation.' etc
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
I wouldn't exactly say that as a blanket statement. I don't generalise from my own experience or that of other addicts, because that gives a skewed picture of 'this drug is somehow MORE addictive than all other drugs, try it once and you're doomed for life'. As a matter of fact it was precisely this implicit belief which landed ME in addiction, because nowhere did I hear the message that it's even POSSIBLE to use this drug in a non-addictive manner, or that it didn't instantly get you hooked.

Imagine how many more alcoholics we'd have if we told people the same about alcohol -?
'one drink and you're done.'
'it's impossible to use alcohol in moderation.' etc
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Heroin is a different drug than alcohol. It is far more pleasant I'm effects, and it's illegal status makes it likely to have adulterants that can kill you. Different beasts. I know a couple of people who tried it once and didn't get much from it and that was it, but they didn't really get a good smoke as they didn't know what they were doing. I persevered and got hooked. You yourself habve been heavily addicted and ODd many times, you have to admit heroin is a different animal than booze.
I'm not saying he'll definitely get hooked, just that the risk isn't worth the reward. Are you suggesting he tries it? I'm not judging, just warning him that he could get hooked, especially as he seems so keen to try it. Most want to try it again, then again, and naseum, then that's that.
 
Heroin is more addictive than booze if you like heroin better than booze. I've done heroin and oxycodone quite a few times, and while they were quite pleasant, I just didn't find them anywhere near as fun as getting pissed, so I don't really have much desire to try them again.
 
GulpingBatteryLiquid said:
Heroin is more addictive than booze if you like heroin better than booze.
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On a strictly non-psychological level I would agree. I think, in large part, this is due to opioids being non-toxic and not having a comedown or hangover.

On a societal level, I'd say alcohol is more addictive. This is mainly because of its extreme availability and social acceptance.

I was on heroin for 9 years and then switched to alcohol for 10 years. I would switch back to heroin in a heartbeat... if it were still around. Only fentanyl now in the US.

Also, if alcohol was not toxic, and did not produce a hangover, I think society would crumble and it would be immediately outlawed. People simply would not stop drinking. Half the population would become raving drunks.
 
Quasimoto said:
On a strictly non-psychological level I would agree. I think, in large part, this is due to opioids being non-toxic and not having a comedown or hangover.

On a societal level, I'd say alcohol is more addictive. This is mainly because of its extreme availability and social acceptance.

I was on heroin for 9 years and then switched to alcohol for 10 years. I would switch back to heroin in a heartbeat... if it were still around. Only fentanyl now in the US.

Also, if alcohol was not toxic, and did not produce a hangover, I think society would crumble and it would be immediately outlawed. People simply would not stop drinking. Half the population would become raving drunks.
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This.

Alcohol abuse is somewhat self limiting due to its toxicity. How many times have we woken the next day after a session and said "I'm never drinking again"? Unfortunately, if you're really determined, this can be overcome, but most people don't push it that far.

Whereas heroin never makes you feel shit - until you wake up one day in withdrawal...
 
@Quasimoto
Heroin is more physically addictive because it produces physical dependency much faster. With alcohol you have to be drinking heavily for YEARS to get to that stage.

Psychologically I think any drug is as potentially addictive as any other, in the sense that feeling like you NEED it wholly depends on how you individually respond to a particular drug and whether it gives you what you're looking for. Like somebody wanting fireworks in their brain is gonna be much more likely to get hooked on something like crack, and probably will find heroin extremely underwhelming.
 
Drinking heavily for a week or two will cause shaking / insomnia / paranoia / depression, possibly some mild visual and audio hallucinations

I doubt heroin withdrawals are going to be terribly heavy after a week or two of use.

Plus alcohol withdrawals can actually kill you, unlike heroin
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
@Quasimoto
Heroin is more physically addictive because it produces physical dependency much faster. With alcohol you have to be drinking heavily for YEARS to get to that stage.
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This is not true. For the average drinker it's maybe true.

Physical alcohol dependency develops significantly faster than opioids and benzos if used in extreme excess. Most people do not drink this much, but about 10% of alcohol users do.

Go drink 20+ beers per day for 3-5 days in a row without stopping. Drink beer for breakfast until you sleep. You will experience immediate, significant physical withdrawal after only 72 hours. I'm not talking about a hangover, or hangxiety. Full blown withdrawal, tremors, hallucinations, skincrawling, etc.

You will certainly feel the metabolical "sickness". You don't feel like you have the flu like heroin wds, you feel like your body is shutting down, because it is, and your mitochondria cells are freaking out unable to properly turn sugar into cellular energy.

I am not trying to belittle heroin withdrawals, they last a lot longer than alcohol withdrawals, but it takes 2+ weeks to develop physical withdrawals from heroin. Alcohol withdrawals are almost immediate, if you drink enough.
 
Quasimoto said:
This is not true. For the average drinker it's maybe true.

Physical alcohol dependency develops significantly faster than opioids and benzos if used in extreme excess. Most people do not drink this much, but about 10% of alcohol users do.

Go drink 20+ beers per day for 3-5 days in a row without stopping. Drink beer for breakfast until you sleep. You will experience immediate, significant physical withdrawal after only 72 hours. I'm not talking about a hangover, or hangxiety. Full blown withdrawal, tremors, hallucinations, skincrawling, etc.

You will certainly feel the metabolical "sickness". You don't feel like you have the flu like heroin wds, you feel like your body is shutting down, because it is, and your mitochondria cells are freaking out unable to properly turn sugar into cellular energy.

I am not trying to belittle heroin withdrawals, they last a lot longer than alcohol withdrawals, but it takes 2+ weeks to develop physical withdrawals from heroin. Alcohol withdrawals are almost immediate, if you drink enough.
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I think it definitely also depends on the type of alcohol you consume -?

Most alkies I spoke to said that it was hard spirits in high quantities that led them to dependency /potentially life-threatening WDs, and that with less alcohol-per-volume beverages you'd have to go much harder at it.
 
Lets not overegg the pudding too much, 20 beers a day for three days in a row would not have me hallucinating

Things start to get rough about a week or so in, and that's after I've probably fucked myself over with kindling multiple times
 
Yeah, I have bad kindling at this point, but that's literally my experience.

I typically drink 12 units per night, I do not withdrawal badly from this amount.

But if I switch to 20 beers per night for just one or two days, I wake up shaking and hallucinating.
 
GulpingBatteryLiquid said:
You've got to work your way up to it, man. Those of us who can drink 20 pints without being on the toilet all day have spent a lot of time and effort to get to this position
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This will never happen, I got a bladder the size of a pea.

It's actually the thing that stops me drinking too much at times because after pint no. 6 I'm just constantly pissing every 20 mins while not getting much more effect, and it just stops being fun then.
 
Quasimoto said:
When I drink that much beer I also drink 4 or 5 liters of water minimum.

Your body adjusts to it. Idk. I'd also rather piss 3 times in the night than wake up hungover.
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Mine doesn't.

I've also pretty much stopped getting hangovers unless I'm doing an outrageous amount on an empty stomach, which I reckon is not a good sign.
 
... Also just in case one of these things factors into the other somehow, it took me a good 2 months of daily injecting to get my first habit. Saw some other guys taking roughly the same amounts as me get hooked much quicker.
 
about 20% of people purportedly don't get hangovers at all... I'm glad that's not me, I'd probably be dead by now if I didn't get hangovers.

I get them badly every time if I'm careless, which is why I'm so religious about drinking so much water.
 
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