EADD - Conspiracy Megathread - MONEY+POWER+SICKNESS=

[Sammy G]

Who is, then?

Nato and their Wahhabi bedfellows.

Thank fuck for Iran and Russia, I say.

 

[Dark Side]

So you're saying that "the government" is somehow excluded from this web of illusion due to not being "people"? You sure you're not David Icke on the sly

Fuck knows what you're smoking. Most people don't keep up with current affairs because they're too depressing for them. It's all in front of your face yet you choose to believe in fantasies like conspiracies, while at the same time you fail to acknowledge these fantasies are just the same as a religion, a belief system for people that refuse to think and would rather live in a fantasy because existence is so banal in comparison.

True thinking causes misery and we live for pleasure, so why would you want to think beyond the basic necessities needed to survive in life... which in most of your cases is food and drugs.

It's only due to the arrogance of Human nature that they think believing in a conspiracy is some form of freethought. 8) It's really not

“A zoologist who observed gorillas in their native habitat was amazed by the uniformity of their life and their vast idleness. Hours and hours without doing anything. Was boredom unknown to them? This is indeed a question raised by a human, a busy ape. Far from fleeing monotony, animals crave it, and what they most dread is to see it end. For it ends, only to be replaced by fear, the cause of all activity. Inaction is divine; yet it is against inaction that man has rebelled. Man alone, in nature, is incapable of enduring monotony, man alone wants something to happen at all costs—something, anything.... Thereby he shows himself unworthy of his ancestor: the need for novelty is the characteristic of an alienated gorilla.”
― Emil Cioran

The need for novelty is why we're all here.

 

[Eveleivibe]

That's quite a wise post, Dark Side, I think a lot of your posts are very thoughtworthy and interesting, at late.

The connection with consipiracy thinking and religion is an interesting one. Of course, I have my own religious view, as most know, but thinking objectively yes you've some interesting points.

Personally I don't like the idea of conspiracy. I'd rather be ignorant n believe that everything is as it is. Many a person has been shot trying to uncover a "secret," if the conspiracies are to be believed.

Evey

 

[Allein]

I'd rather be ignorant n believe that everything is as it is.

I could just suggest that it it's own way that the above is just as much a conspiracy, but in that case it's not as it demonstrably just not true.

It' quite clear that things are 'as they are' only for each individual, I'm not even delving into spirituality or any such slipper subjects I'm firmly in the world of scientific fact, we don;t and can't even truly share the moment, time (or space time) is relative to the individual.

As far as what is 'there' or not 'there' have a delve beyond the big stuff and start looking at the particle level and the very idea of something existing in a specific time and location just doesn't work and all the 'rules' we like to think are so concrete just dissolve.

We seem to be able to broadly agree on the big stuff like 'there's a chair in the corner' but the idea that my / your or any other individuals perspective or view of reality bears any great resemblance to anyone else's is, quite frankly arrogant. This is where my fundamental issues with organised religion begins, although it doesn't end there.

For me this is the biggest conspiracy and one we all seem to sign up to in some way or another in order to get by from day to day but it's still BS

 

[Dark Side]

I said this before but when I was younger I used to want to believe in Conspiracies, i used to want to believe in a lot of things... i used to want to believe in Aliens, i love Star trek, Star Wars and all things sci fi. Yet the only person that made me ever actually think was my brother, key word being think and not believe. My bro has used drugs like Acid and DMT numerous times and none of these drugs changed his way of thinking; he has always been the same. If i hadn't taken an interest in Philosophy like he did, well then I would still believe in fantasies and i would probably be more happier living in these fantasies.

 

[Eveleivibe]

I cannot get my head around drugs and spirituality. I guess it may be because I've not consumed them. But, to me, spirituality is more than consuming some substance. It is a way of life. Life, death and beyond. How the hell does consuming a substance give someone a sense into spiritual thinking? Surely its an illusion? I mean if it was such a spiritual moment then why did you have that moment as a result of consuming that substance? Was you always meant to have that moment? And, in that case, were you always meant to consume that substance that would give you that spiritual moment, or a moment into the dimension of spiritual awareness? Why? Why the connection between drugs and spirituality? Did you write a blueprint before coming into this incarnation that specifically decided that one would have some sort of spiritual awakening as a result of a specific substance. Why? Why? Why?

Drugs and spirituality? Illusion or reality? State why.

Dreams, prophetic dreams, dimensions..... ok that's enough for now....

Evey

 

[Allein]

I said this before but when I was younger I used to want to believe in Conspiracies, i used to want to believe in a lot of things...

I would still believe in fantasies and i would probably be more happier living in these fantasies.

Again IMHO is there is a fantasy it's the idea that it'sin any way likely that we are the only life in the universe, again how arrogant are we ???

If you mean Aliens in terms of visitations by space craft, abductions and tin foil hats, that whole subject is so mixed up in the largely accepted idea that in the US at least such rumours were positively encouraged to cover up military aircraft development that it's become impossible to separate conspiracy from government cover up to theer being a possible thread of truth in any of it.

It's still quite possible that life will be found under the surface of Mars, and the theory that life on this planet may have originated there rather than on earth is far from mumbo jumbo, we may be Aliens.

 

[Dark Side]

Im not saying there isn't, the possibilities are infinite and there could be infinite versions of me. Im talking about tin foil hat society, i'm not sober i'm a blue lighter and i'm drunk. It's like star trek first contact pal, the aliens wont visit us until we develop a Warp drive. We're not worthy of being visited without one because we are not advanced enough to handle visitation; without pulling out a loaded gun and shooting them dead out of fear.

All the tin foil hat society taught me was the power of belief.

 

[joe90]

Fuck knows what you're smoking. Most people don't keep up with current affairs because they're too depressing for them. It's all in front of your face yet you choose to believe in fantasies like conspiracies, while at the same time you fail to acknowledge these fantasies are just the same as a religion, a belief system for people that refuse to think and would rather live in a fantasy because existence is so banal in comparison.

True thinking causes misery and we live for pleasure, so why would you want to think beyond the basic necessities needed to survive in life... which in most of your cases is food and drugs.

It's only due to the arrogance of Human nature that they think believing in a conspiracy is some form of freethought. 8) It's really not

“A zoologist who observed gorillas in their native habitat was amazed by the uniformity of their life and their vast idleness. Hours and hours without doing anything. Was boredom unknown to them? This is indeed a question raised by a human, a busy ape. Far from fleeing monotony, animals crave it, and what they most dread is to see it end. For it ends, only to be replaced by fear, the cause of all activity. Inaction is divine; yet it is against inaction that man has rebelled. Man alone, in nature, is incapable of enduring monotony, man alone wants something to happen at all costs—something, anything.... Thereby he shows himself unworthy of his ancestor: the need for novelty is the characteristic of an alienated gorilla.”
― Emil Cioran

The need for novelty is why we're all here.

Outstanding post DS.Filling the void.When there are unresolved issues in the body the mind can wander and get lost.It's difficult to have a clear view of reality if you are numb in some way. My thoughts are that conspiracy theories are unclear thinking.

I don't normally read this thread because I run a mile when I see the word conspiracy. Hopefully no one takes offense as I haven't read more of the thread.

 

[Allein]

Im talking about tin foil hat society, i'm not sober i'm a blue lighter and i'm drunk.

I'm both sober, drugs or drink if you like to make a distinction and a BLer, although either of those things are permanent either

All the tin foil hat society taught me was the power of belief.

I'm with you to at least an extent, the conspiracy theorists that can be seen to be trying to present their interpretation of events as some how the truth, the whole truth and nothing but ( which is why I reference religion ) are as much part of trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes as 'the power' that tries to control us with their lies of permanency and shallow certainties.#

All that said I personally try not to devote too much time t dwelling on nature of my reality or the tangible flux of it all, it became quite central to my view of things for a while and I had to get a grip of it before they would let me back out of that particular medical facility

 

[Eveleivibe]

Again IMHO is there is a fantasy it's the idea that it'sin any way likely that we are the only life in the universe, again how arrogant are we ???
.

Totally agree! It's mad how many people, and how quick people are to assume that aliens don't exist, and that possibly any person assuming aliens are real must be delusional. Why? We are arrogant in believing that we are the only one in such an, assuming, endless universe. And it's also mad that people, who do believe in aliens being real, seem to assume that these aliens would automatically be a threat to us. Again, why? WHY, WHY, WHY? Because many TV programmes have led us to believe that they are green things, in flying saucers, ready to attack?

If we were able to "make contact" then, personally, I feel that would be an amazing thing. There are assumptions that aliens helped with the pyramids due to the timing and intellect. Now, of course, this may be rubbish.... But again, why?

Evey

 

[Shambles]

Im not saying there isn't, the possibilities are infinite and there could be infinite versions of me.

If this is the case then there are also infinite versions of this world just as we know it, and inifinitely more just the same with tiny differences, and inifinitely many of these worlds will be exactly as tinfoilery would have us believe, and infinitely many will have bigfoots but not UFOs, and infinitely many where 9/11 was an inside job, and infinitely many where it was not, and...

We'd would also have no way of knowing whether we lived in a version of our world where some, none, many or all of the various conspiracies were true anymore than we would know now due to the nature of conspiracy theories.

I'd also take issue with the "it's all just another form of religion" thing. To an extent I would agree - when you get to the "True Believers" which we all know and... love? The credulous dullards who jump on to every passing conspiratorial bandwagon and - quite frankly - just make shit up as they go along. This is the highly speculative (to put it politely) end which is the conspiratorial equivalent of a Westboro Baptist or some such - the group who shout loudest and are easiest to mock and reject without feeling any great need to delve too deeply into what they are saying because it is simply ridiculous.

At what point along the continuum do you decide people are no longer conths (yes, am still using that for now - if said out loud it will give folk the chance to pronounce it in ways that may please them so may take off yet )? Conspiracies are facts of everyday life. Almost every event in history has involved conspiracies of one form or another and this is not in any way controversial. Why would current events and more recent history be an exception to this historical norm? What has changed? Seems to me conspiracy is an intrinsic trait of humanity and the more complex society becomes the more opportunities there are to find new angles to take, new ways to obfuscate, more opportunities to control... and more opportunities for the opposite in all these areas too.

The explosion of interest in conspiratorial matters is simply because there is so much more information available to people and it is so much easier to access these days (comparatively anyway). Of course there is plenty of shonky information and plenty conclusions jumped to and plenty godawful conspiracy theories barely worthy of the name they're so moronic. But to toss baby with bathwater as a result of focussing purely on the laughable extremes to be found you are going directly to the opposite and equally laughable extreme without passing GO! and without taking £200. You seem to be rather black and white in your thinking. A bit all or nothing. This seems less than ideal as an approach to me as there are very clearly shades of grey (and considerably more than fifty of 'em at that) in all (or perhaps almost all) things which means you are unlikely to be getting a very full picture of anything no matter how satisfying it may feel to have big, bold, solid monochrome blocks of supposed sureity to admire.

 

[Vurtual]

I'm with you shambles, but at the same time conspiracy theories (true and otherwsie) have been used by elites as a manipulation tool since we've had civilisation (gunpowder plot and papists to the elders of zion) so the water is muddy. And this has got even more sophisticated in the 20th century, from john birch onwards; i don't think the explosion of modern conspiracy theories is entirely accidental or market driven - consider how the bulk of them happen to dovetail with the very political views of the captains of industry at the top of american society who probably fund many of them (like the kock brothers: 'get rid of gubberment', or 'the commie un are trying to take my guns'). As far as i remember the intial surge in the 90s of modern conspiracies was partly coming from the neoconservatives and their attacks on clinton - it seems obvious that they continued and increased this method of meme-manipulation.

I do think there is an element of religiousness about the overarching, explain everything type of conspiracy theories - how you (not you ) the special person has the secret answer which explains everything about the world (which for some reason the elite just left easily accessible on the internet); and like fundamentalists, any evidence given to the contrary is somehow further proof of the conspiracy. I think this is the type of conspiracy theory that is encouraged and promulgated by the elite (like fundamentalism generally) because it fosters a helplessness in people in the face of such dominant forces, and reduces the likelihood of them becoming politically active in meaningful ways ('there's no point cos the rothschilds (or whoever) control everything').

The elites would love everyone to think they have this perfect global control of everything, but the reality is they haven't - it's a system on the edge of chaos which they're just as clueless about how to control as the rest of us - they've got a tiger by the tail, but they don't want us to realise that we are the tiger (that's the biggest 'conspiracy' in my eyes - the 'cure' is socialism).

The 'real' conspiracies are usually messy and complicated and need loads of ancillary explanation i've found and so don't function as well as overarching cosmologies (some prefer the term 'parapolitics' or 'deep politics' to distinguish themselves from the 'conth' herd (eg Peter Dale Scott).

 

[Sammy G]

The elites would love everyone to think they have this perfect global control of everything, but the reality is they haven't - it's a system on the edge of chaos which they're just as clueless about how to control as the rest of us - they've got a tiger by the tail, but they don't want us to realise that we are the tiger (that's the biggest 'conspiracy' in my eyes - the 'cure' is socialism).

Beautifully put.

Don't necessarily agree with 'socialism' as the solution, but as you're aware, I tend to adopt the socialist position naturally a lot of the time.

 

[Vurtual]

Ta. That's not to say 'they' don't try and have that sort of global control, and sometimes even think they've got it, until the next black swan comes along and humbles them. There are provably 'conspiratorial' elites of various stripes knocking about that strive for that very control; some hidden, some not - and they have some control obviously. Some would argue that it's the very actions of groups and individuals thinking they can control something as nebulous and complex as a society that create most of the problems in the first place. I go along with Kropotkin's ideas that society is a self-organised system (he was ahead of his time) that runs best with no central control - 'anarchy is order' (that's what the A in the circle stands for).

The secret elite cabals spring naturally from class power - getting rid of any particular cabal without addressing and adjusting class power is useless (three others spring in it's place hydra-like) - that's why i think socialism is the answer (but i suppose it depends how you define socialism (ot?))

 

[Sammy G]

Control controls Control.

 

[Vurtual]

(not sure if that's an agreement or a grammar criticism)

Here's a real life conspiracy going on right now: Nicholas Wilson has been trying to whistleblow on HSBC for years - a £1 billion fraud on store credit cards - he's been shat on by all authorities he tried to take it to. Now almost the entire media won't touch it (except a very brief appearance on the Big Questions with Nicky Campbell, where he didn't even go into the details).

This article by Nafeez Ahmed goes through this and various other dodgy 'conspiracies' that hsbc got up to. This is what i call conspiracy research:

https://medium.com/@NafeezAhmed/death-drugs-and-hsbc-355ed9ef5316

And there's also this one about the far right extremists knocking about in the heart of whitehall (people like the odious racist neocon douglas murray):

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/white-supremacists-heart-whitehall-789183852

As mentioned before, Nafeez also did an excellent book on 911 and 7/7.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Will have a read when I've a mo n get back to you. Without looking, I'd assume that the bank have decent lawyers to back them.


Evey

 

[pinkpapaver]

Yes Vurtual. That is right. The powers that be are happy to have people believe they are capable of some of these big secrets. It isn't always about the big stuff. Here is a link about a sad story. Basically a little old lady was being dropped off by the ring and ride and there was no one home coz they were early. The driver of the mini bus BROKE INTO HER HOME to let her in. Whe her daughter got back she made a complaint and then a web of cover up began... threatened by the police and intimidated. http://www.sheilaoliver.org/alice-through-the-broken-glass.html

this is where the conspiracy is worrying on this local level cover up stuff. Government agencies not admitting when they are wrong. It is very sad.

There are so many secret societies and clubs in academic institutions that turn out the "top" people in politics, business, sports and all that so that a certain type of person and people are doing the controlling.

I like the way that chief Bromden in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest refers to the "combine"

 

[Eveleivibe]

If there's truth in that then I agree that it is very sad.

Evey