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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

EADD Benzo Discussion V. Waking up in a Wakefield skip

Has anyone read the WEDINOS report for this year? The headline issue is that of samples sent in as valium/diazepam, only 29% had diazepam in them. Obviously etizolam was coming up a lot along with a couple of RCs that were legal in the UK until a couple of years ago. I got some and the WEDINOS test showed them to be alprazolam (which I already suspected, based on a taste test). With that, why not sell them as xanax - it's not like there isn't a market for them at the moment! I guess people want bars, not round pills.

The only good news is UK valium isn't being laced with fentanyl (yet). The report also refers back to some slightly older research they did on the strength of MSJs (spoiler alert: they vary a lot in strength). On a day to day basis that might not be a massive problem for some people, but imagine trying to do an Ashton style steady taper when the pills could be 8mg or 11mg and you have no idea!

Doubtless the WEDINOS sample includes lots of home pressed blues from Scotland, but I think it underlines how important it is to use trusted sources and then test. Like the Russian saying, "trust but verify".

Personally I'm going with Apaurin because I know what I'm getting (even if they are a bit more expensive).
 
I will never understand why dealers mix fentanyl with benzos. Trying to kill their customers is all i can figure
 
Haha kids or benzos @Wilson Wilson?
Just had some Kern pharma diazepam.
Made the mistake of eating 30mg without tolerance and passed out after 45mins. Oops. Theyre just so tiny they look harmless. Only a little bigger than msj.
And I checked WEDINOS and all samples came back diazepam, and they were in blisters. Gonna eat 1 next time...

Kids, benzos are wonderful ;)

Has anyone read the WEDINOS report for this year? The headline issue is that of samples sent in as valium/diazepam, only 29% had diazepam in them. Obviously etizolam was coming up a lot along with a couple of RCs that were legal in the UK until a couple of years ago. I got some and the WEDINOS test showed them to be alprazolam (which I already suspected, based on a taste test). With that, why not sell them as xanax - it's not like there isn't a market for them at the moment! I guess people want bars, not round pills.

The only good news is UK valium isn't being laced with fentanyl (yet). The report also refers back to some slightly older research they did on the strength of MSJs (spoiler alert: they vary a lot in strength). On a day to day basis that might not be a massive problem for some people, but imagine trying to do an Ashton style steady taper when the pills could be 8mg or 11mg and you have no idea!

Doubtless the WEDINOS sample includes lots of home pressed blues from Scotland, but I think it underlines how important it is to use trusted sources and then test. Like the Russian saying, "trust but verify".

Personally I'm going with Apaurin because I know what I'm getting (even if they are a bit more expensive).

Yeah this is a non-surprising effect of the PSA really. The etizolam market still exists (it's still legal in the US for example, who eat fuckloads of benzos) and the same goes for diclazepam and other RC benzos. And Chinese labs don't bother making diazepam because of pure economics. If you are a presser, imagine etizolam and diazepam are the same price. If you press blues with etizolam you need 1mg for users to feel something off 'em. If you press with diazepam you need 10mg. 10x more powder requires 10x more money for each pill you press. If you buy powder by the kilo, what do you choose? It's obvious.

This is also why diclazepam is a common choice, it has a similar half-life to diazepam but only requires a dose of 1mg to be effective. Never mind that the effects are totally different. The clientele they're aiming for is people who don't care what they get as long as it has some type of benzo in it. In Scotland they know "loose blues" are fake. The type of people who buy them don't care as long it they do the job.

Same goes for alprazolam too. The same guys pressing bars think: there is a huge market for diazepam as well, and if we just press some of this alprazolam into round blue pills we sell to both markets. And they often get sent random RC benzos from China instead of alprazolam (same labs make both) and don't bother testing anything, so they end up making etiz bars, etiz blues, etc etc.

Then there's the crazy mystery batches like those Neliz blisters which contained a mix of etizolam, diclazepam, and alprazolam. Maybe the pressers got a sample pack from China and just mixed it all up into one big metal drum for the pill press? It's very strange when the boxes and blisters looked legitimate and professional, then they just mix a bunch of random benzos together in various combos and quantities per pill. Even more curiously, the latest WEDINOS results now show the latest batches of Neliz do contain diazepam! I wonder what the story is there? I'd still be vary of them though. Even the legit pharma company that makes the real ones looks a bit dodgy to me.

Regarding fentanyl, this is luckily one thing UK pressers do very much care about. I watched this BBC Three doc about counterfeit goods and part of that was looking at some guy pressing bars. He did not test his powder to make sure it was alprazolam. However, he did put some in a fentanyl test kit to make sure it tested negative for fent. If it tested negative for fent he pressed it.

Those people are happy to press RC's into everything, but they really really don't want to go anywhere near fent. The reasons are obvious. If their customers start dying, not only is it bad for business, but when fent OD's are discovered it attracts police attention very quickly. Police don't give a huge shit about low level drug dealing but they do give a massive shit about fentanyl. Which is a very good thing imo. This is one time where I can say I'm happy police are being tough enforcing drug laws (of course this enforcement wouldn't be needed if there was no prohibition in the first place, but I digress).

In the US, pressing benzos and pressing fent are almost as risky as each other anyway, either way it's the DEA who will come after you. Which is why the good quality pressed bars in the US are actually shipped over from Canadian pressers, where the law is less strict. And in the UK too, there is a huge difference legally between pressing class C's and class A's, especially if it's fent.

That's why fent is rare in the UK. It is growing as a cut in H, but it's nowhere near the level it is in the US (and many European countries too) where it's assumed most H is actually fent, not so in the UK where most H is bad quality but still not cut with fent. Likewise it's not in pressed benzos in the UK, and that's a big reason why.

Pressing RC benzos and pressing fent is the difference between risking getting raided for production of class C's if something slips, and having the police actively going after you for causing fatal OD's on a class A, where you are getting serious charges and it becomes a case of not if they catch you but when.

That said, in rare occasions pills pressed with fent do sometimes exist in the UK...

https://www.addaction.org.uk/news/fake-percocet®-tablets-may-pose-huge-fentanyl-threat
 
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Hey @Wilson Wilson I think that's a very good insight and ties up with a few bits I've heard. As you say the difference between class C and class A, when it has probably come to light because someone is dead, is huge. The way some people gobble diazepam, there would be more deaths, rather than deaths in combination with other substnces that depress breathing.

On the cost of 10mg of diazepam vs 1mg of something that feels similar enough for the pill not to be considered a dud, I'm sure that's true. I doubt getting white powder through UK customs is very easy. This cuts the weight by 90%, so yet enother reason for them to press something stronger at smaller doses.

Despite fent being rare in the UK, I always test for it to be safe. I never buy street valium. I realise some people have no choice and I'm not criticising anyone. But I'm hoping to start a very long and (hopefully) smooth taper. The last thing I need is other substances with different half lives, or variable strength like the MSJs, So I'm having to go to a totally different route and get Apaurin for consistency, despite costing more.

Those Neliz made me curious as well - no idea what is going on! Makes me wonder if they changed owner/management? Maybe the person responsible for the pressing changed. They got a reputation for being fake really quickly, so it is just possible they changed their business plan (i.e. actually sell diazepam). Could be more than one operation using the name...?
 
@barq thanks for the kind words man. I do like to keep my ear to the streets when it comes to this type of stuff. It is often very strange and interesting what goes on with these pressed pills.

You are absolutely right, these people do just gobble up blues especially the Scots, if they contained fent the death count would be huge and police would very quickly work out the common denominator.

Same goes for the kids popping bars to be all cool, they wanna show off how much they can handle (stupid but it is what it is) so again there'd be deaths all over if they were pressed with fent.

I've seen a lot of scare stories about fent bars from the UK media. Fent bars have been found in the US and occasionally in Europe, but nowhere have I seen evidence of them being found in the UK. Pressers have a huge incentive - both in terms of pure business and LE risk - to be sure their bars do not contain fent. If they contain etiz or whatever they don't care. But they don't want to end up selling fent.

And yes what you say about customs is exactly right. Actually most of the packages do get through fine. The Chinese are masters of stealth. However the occasional pack will get seized. So as you rightly point out, this is further incentive to make sure they can make the most out of the product they get.

It's sensible to test new batches to be on the safe side for sure. Any time I get bars (which I only ever do as a last resort, I prefer blister packs even if they're only 0.5mg, still would rather have proper pharma) I will send one into WEDINOS so I know exactly what I'm taking. I do the same if I get a new brand of diazepam, but there I only ever get blisters because they're far easier to come across, and recently my guy has been selling Martin Dow blisters which are legit. But even some blistered diaz is fake these days, Neliz being a perfect example, so it is always smart to send one off to WEDINOS if it's a new brand. Fake Ranbaxy blisters containing etizolam and melatonin have also been doing the rounds.

Finally as for Neliz, it seriously is a mystery! I have a theory (and this is just pure speculation on my part, so take it for what it is) that the actual company itself was set up to divert benzos across Europe to make easy money in a country with corruption and loose regulation. They came out of nowhere, no one had heard of them before they suddenly flooded the DNM's and the streets, the packaging was proper professional and looked as if it came out a proper pharma factory. You can usually easily tell fake blisters, like I have seen fake Actavis blisters which were extremely obvious, not only were the details all wrong but the foil itself just peeled right off the plastic! Yet the Neliz blisters were of a professional grade despite the dubious contents of the pills themselves.

And now for the strangest twist of all, suddenly they have real diazepam in them. So if that fake batch (or batches) had never existed, and the new ones with real diazepam were all we'd ever known, we'd have no reason to be suspicious of them at all.

My speculative theory is that someone set up a pharma company as a front to distribute benzos to the European black market. The company is Spanish and it's possible in its poor economic state someone with the right contacts could have paid off the right people to look the other way and not check anything. Initially they tried to get their supply from China but got sold a bunch of RC's instead. They didn't bother testing before hand because they were sloppy, but they had pharma grade equipment for pressing and packaging.

After realising they'd been making fakes, either they started buying the API (active pharmaceutical ingredient) elsewhere - e.g. from an Indian lab instead of a Chinese one, India is a huge producer of API's and is again pretty lax on regulations while also being more reliable than the clandestine Chinese labs - or they started synthesising their own diazepam, which isn't hard to do as a pharma company at all.

Maybe they knew the initial batch would be dodgy, but the Chinese labs are cheap so they used it to make big initial profits which they invested back into the business to begin producing real diazepam tablets, knowing that once lab tests were done and word spread that the new batches were legit, benzo heads would happily buy them. Or maybe they simply gambled on the fact that their customers wouldn't care as long as the pills contained some type of benzo, same as the home pressed blues all over Scotland.

I would be very interested to see an EC lab test for the new Neliz batches, as that would show the dosage. I'd be curious to know if they're bang on 10mg or if they're more like the MSJ's where the dose varies.

One thing is for sure. The fact they now contain diazepam shows that whoever is now making them has access to legit pharma API's. China does not produce diazepam. So they're getting it from a real pharma supplier. My guess is India assuming the pills are still being banged out by a dodgy operation (seems more likely than everyone suddenly getting legit ones). But the curious question is where are they coming from? My theory really is just a guess... but it is possible.

Oh and one more very interesting development which frankly I'm surprised did not happen sooner:

cZelji4.png


Pressed bars now containing flualprazolam. There's been multiple results like this popping up on WEDINOS recently. This actually makes a lot of sense, as flualprazolam is from everything I have read practically identical to alprazolam in effects but about twice as potent. It even has the same bitter taste as regular alprazolam! So again, less needed per bar, but the effects are almost identical to genuine alprazolam. I am just surprised it took this long for someone to come up with the idea. Flualprazolam has been around in the US and available from China for over a year at this point. It makes perfect sense to press it into bars.

You can press a bar with 1mg flualprazolam and it would feel virtually identical to ~2mg alprazolam. Drug feels the same, tastes the same, and requires less active ingredient. Flualprazolam itself is also an RC being pumped out of China in large quantities, so would be cheap, and I believe it's non-controlled in the UK too (it would obviously fall under the PSA, but the substance isn't specifically controlled under the MoDA). The fact it's legal in China also makes it cheaper to buy from the labs and you are much less likely to get sent the wrong benzo if you buy a legal RC, not alprazolam. It's also really easy to get flualprazolam powder from European RC sites, which is easier and safer compared to dealing directly with China labs.

I'm not sure if it's just me but those two presses look different as well. Slightly different font and detailing. If so, it looks as if multiple pressers are using flualprazolam in their bars now. I hope this trend continues. Considering its similarity to alprazolam, it is much better than mystery bars containing fuck knows what like doxepin. And I'd actually be curious to try flualprazolam, it's meant to hit harder than regular alprazolam with that extra potency etc.
 
@Wilson Wilson
That's really interesting. Your theory about the Neliz sounds totally plausible.

I've not done any research into flualprazolam, although from the name I guessed roughly what it was and noticed it had started appearing quite recently. People say the half life is longer than xanax as well as it being approx twice as strong. Xanax isn't really my thing, unless I have something super stressful to cope with. But you are right that it is better that it be flualprazolam rather than random crap. I cannot believe some of the stuff WEDINOS finds... antipsychotics, antihistamines (ok both those could make someone feel drousy and a bit like they'd had a benzo, albeit it shit one). What amazes me is when it is a drug that goes in the opposite direction like caffeine. That's not great either for those who take handfuls of blues, caffeine is stronger than cocaine, gram for gram (so they taught me when I studied psychology) as it could cause a panic attack or even a heart attack beyond 2g.

It seems that of the fakes we have people who make something either very close (e.g. flualprazolam) or swapping in etiz into xanax that will definitely give an effect. The average punter isn't going to demand their money back, so they've potentially got repeat business. Then you've got the really dangerous "we'll just press anything" lot who sell total crap and leave it for others to argue about.

What we don't have are regular instances of anyone putting something really dangerous like fent into bars or pills. That said, I test for it just in case... the fent test kits work out less than a dollar each and could just possibly save my life. I agree with what you've said that it would be dangerous for them, assuming everyone is behaving rationally about it. There would be deaths and the police would follow up. I doubt people would knowingly press it in the UK for the reasons you've given. Two things scare me, 1) if the pills were made somewhere else, shipped to UK and then sold as generic blues or something, and 2) that fent is so strong it needs to be mixed incredibly well. What does a blue weigh? 150mg? 10mg are supposed to be diazepam, so that takes a reasonable amount of mixing to get it even, but now think about the levels at which fent is active or even lethal. I just hope some idiot doesn't lay their hands on fent and try the cement mixer method on that shit! (Actually, if they weren't wearing a mask they could OD themselves.)

But this pressing god knows what (sometimes ok, sometimes not) is why I keep to things like Apaurin. I'm doing a very slow and steady taper, so it really matters that is is diazepam in the correct quantity. Anything home pressed just throws a random factor into that, which I don't want to deal with.

BTW I think the two presses shown look very slightly different.
 
Today I am thinking about difference between alprazolam and lorazepam and coffie. When I take alprazolam with coffie I feel something like "little speedball" (sedation+stimulation), but when I take lorazepam with coffie, coffie destroy sedation effect of lorazepam. Why? What is the pharmacological's reason?
 
Has anyone tried the Galenika Clonazepam? Hoping there are no fakes about.
 
Has anyone tried the Galenika Clonazepam? Hoping there are no fakes about.

Used it many times and it's always been legit.

The vast majority of those Galenika benzos are legit. I've even had some of their alprazolam EC tested at the correct dose. I am scripted clonazepam and the Galenika stuff is the same quality as what I get from the pharmacy.

I have seen the odd fake going around a year or two ago but not recently. Those fakes still contained clonazepam but they were 0.5mg not 2mg. You'd figure this out pretty quickly though since that's only a quarter of the dose.

In all likelihood they're sound. Galenika as a general rule is reliable.
 
Has anyone tried the Galenika Clonazepam? Hoping there are no fakes about.

I have been using the Galenika 'Rivotril' for over 3 years and consider their 2mg tablet as identical in every way to Roche's effort, which I always preferred to the Auden generics. While the Auden tablets are fine and have a satisfactory effect I considered them to be somehow not quite as rocket as the Roche efforts, which I had for direct comparison (this was about 2012 when the generics first appeared on my radar) and after the introduction of the PSA in 2016 I became reliant on the Auden clonazepam as my basic supply (I usually grab a box of 100 every 2 - 3 months or so). As my Balkan based contact is currently unavailable and may never come back on, I have not been able to get hold of any Ksalol, Bensedin or Hemofarm for the Christmas period, which means the 2mg Galenika 'Rivotril' is a non starter as well.

Luckily, having just grabbed a box this week I have enough 500ug clonazepam tables to get me through until Jan, a stash that while hardly containing much choice, has as its only novelty 2 strips of Roche 'Rivotril' (15 pieces in each) which although still only beginner strength is as good as I need, accompanied by my final 40mgs of diazepam.

So, without any further access to these drugs, coupled with the uncertainty that Brexit brings to the whole shebang, it is looking more and more like;y that I will have to make a real effort come 2020 to get out of the habit of using such items all of the time (I managed to go a full 5 days without for the first time in months back while the Congressional Intelligence Committee was being televised). But do not fear the Galenika 'Rivotril' tablets they are, IMO, as good as the Roche.
 
My pharmacy always serves me Roche Rivotril 2mg but it's imported from Spain. It's hit me that after Brexit I might only get Auden generics! :eek:
 
My pharmacy always serves me Roche Rivotril 2mg but it's imported from Spain. It's hit me that after Brexit I might only get Auden generics! :eek:

Same here, I know they are only the 500ug jobbies but they are the first UK dispensed Roche Rivotril I have come across in ages.
19196

As pathetic as it sounds, one of the reasons I voted remain was due to my dependence on the largely reliable continental purchases of RC's and the like, which is why I fear I have had my last Galenika splurge among other things...

@Wilson Wilson - if you can give your prescriber a valid enough reason, they can specify the brand of a particular drug if necessary on the Rx. Most prescriptions are automatically honoured using generics if available, unless otherwise stated...
 
And you voted Tory, right? ;)

What have I done? Corbyn save us from cheap generic benzos! :cry:

Same here, I know they are only the 500ug jobbies but they are the first UK dispensed Roche Rivotril I have come across in ages.
View attachment 19196

As pathetic as it sounds, one of the reasons I voted remain was due to my dependence on the largely reliable continental purchases of RC's and the like, which is why I fear I have had my last Galenika splurge among other things...

@Wilson Wilson - if you can give your prescriber a valid enough reason, they can specify the brand of a particular drug if necessary on the Rx. Most prescriptions are automatically honoured using generics if available, unless otherwise stated...

Galenika is Serbian and Serbia isn't in the EU. I happen to know with decent certainty that the supply of imported benzos we get does largely come from Serbian suppliers, so it's already coming from outside the EU. Truthfully I don't think Brexit will have a large effect on the black market benzo supply. High risk countries already get scrutinised more heavily EU members or no, for example NL. Low risk countries like Serbia barely get looked at despite not being EU members.

The RC market could be affected with those easy EU vendors sadly, and I am concerned also about my kratom supply which I get from NL, as I suspect NL packs will be even more risky after Brexit. This might also mean a bump in prices for MDMA if more packs end up getting seized.

I don't foresee much disruption of benzos as a direct result of Brexit though in all honesty as they already come from outside the EU and from a low profile country. But anything that goes through NL will become more risky unless the routes get changed.

Actually afaik the MDMA already goes through France first then to us. If that's the case, MDMA supply may not be disrupted too much. Brexit would likely mean VAT checks but those are surprisingly lax and China already bypasses them constantly. France is not high profile so would probably remain safe.

Have to wait and see I guess, but I suspect we'll still have a supply of benzos, I don't see our customs getting Aussie level just because Brexit happens.

Oh and yeah those are the same blisters I get except mine are 2mg. I know you can ask the pharmacist for a specific brand but I'm not sure if Star Pharma will keep importing brand name meds from Spain in the first place when we have British generics. Depends on how economical it ends up being once we have a trade deal in place.

y4BhzTi.jpg
 
How many Clonazepam would people say is equivalent to 10mg diazepam? I tend to think of 10mg diazepam as equal to roughly 1mg alprazolam, maybe a bit stronger, but I always struggle with the equivalent amount of clonazepam. It's the one drug where those online benzo calculators don't quite make sense for me. Thoughts?
 
How many Clonazepam would people say is equivalent to 10mg diazepam? I tend to think of 10mg diazepam as equal to roughly 1mg alprazolam, maybe a bit stronger, but I always struggle with the equivalent amount of clonazepam. It's the one drug where those online benzo calculators don't quite make sense for me. Thoughts?

The Ashton manual says 0.5mg clonazepam = 10mg diazepam. Personally 0.5mg only hits for me if I've just had a tolerance break, I tend to find 1mg is more like it in most cases. Whereas alprazolam feels stronger to me and 0.5mg feels like 10mg diazepam even with some tolerance.

Remember those equivalence tables are always estimated and always differ by individual. I remember discussing with someone here on BL (I think it was CH) about alprazolam possibly having higher binding affinity for GABA receptors compared to clonazepam which makes sense to me.

Clonazepam is still potent though. I'm scripted 4mg but if I ever actually took that I'd black out on the daily.
 
The Ashton manual says 0.5mg clonazepam = 10mg diazepam. Personally 0.5mg only hits for me if I've just had a tolerance break, I tend to find 1mg is more like it in most cases. Whereas alprazolam feels stronger to me and 0.5mg feels like 10mg diazepam even with some tolerance.

when you say 'hits for you' what kind of effects are you describing?


My note of caution about Benzos - I've been a little reckless of late. Took too much Clonazepam, blacked out and banged my head on my desk. That was after doing a similar thing with Xanax a while back. Don't know how long I was out for but came to lying on the floor. I've been mixing Benzos with Pregabalin too. Preg on it's own doesn't seem to do much. I place cushions and pillows on the floor around my desk now when I use Benzos just in case

It seems pretty hard getting the quantity right with Benzos - either they don't do anything much at all, or you black out, with little in between. Finding that 'sweet spot' is difficult. Of course I'm not looking to black/pass out at all, just get a bit sloppy-brained and have some fun listening to music and doing shit/getting on with work, but I guess they're not really that type of drug, unlike alcohol where you can measure how tipsy you're becoming and judge if you should take more. I presume mixing Benzos with alcohol is a big no-no? :?

I'm usually pretty cautious, in that I'll start off low to test the waters and see how I respond, guess I went a little overboard this time
 
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Suck it and see. Are they actually jellies?

Presumably they'll be anti-abuse, but potentially a very interesting find there if they're not (if you're an IV user anyway). Not that you should ever inject pharms not designed for injection, but you know...
 
If I had the source and I had used it before for something else I would definitely have a little tester and see what they were like anyway, just don't buy 100s straight up.
 
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