EADD Benzo Discussion V. Waking up in a Wakefield skip

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

The temazepam I've had recently seemed pretty underdosed, not sure what brand it was but the text on the script was in Urdu, I think

I've got some Martin Dow diaz coming, judging by Wedinos it's a coin flip as to whether it will be legit or a paracetamol/bromazolam combo

 

[50shadesofDave]

Hi Bleaney, I'm sorry to hear you have been going through this too, it's a fucker to pin down, I've been on a knife edge of withdrawals for months now, must be random dose pills playing a part also, and I'll admit to breaking a pill in half in the early hours due to waking between 3-4am, messing my own tolerance, although this is a handful of times.

I did a fair bit of digging last night and I'm sure I'm dealing with tolerance withdrawal, so much so I made myself really anxious and fell off the wagon (booze) Not moved off the sofa all day.

As you say 'it is what it is'.

Take it easy fella.

 

[Bleaney]

Hi Bleaney, I'm sorry to hear you have been going through this too, it's a fucker to pin down, I've been on a knife edge of withdrawals for months now, must be random dose pills playing a part also, and I'll admit to breaking a pill in half in the early hours due to waking between 3-4am, messing my own tolerance, although this is a handful of times.

I did a fair bit of digging last night and I'm sure I'm dealing with tolerance withdrawal, so much so I made myself really anxious and fell off the wagon (booze) Not moved off the sofa all day.

As you say 'it is what it is'.

Take it easy fella.

We all have our reasons for using benzos, and I guess we have the choice of continuing down the same path, or stopping, or finding some middle ground, of having days/weeks/or months off, which obviously should help with the tolerance and dependence issues. Option 3 would be ideal for me. But I cannot do it at present, due to needing to hold down a job, and the working environment would send my anxiety and sensory issues off the scale.

The 2020 lockdown and 3 months of furlough allowed me to do a full abstinence reset. It was very easy as I didn't have to mix with any people. Which was so helpful, although my use was already much lighter at that time, as it hadnt been too long since I'd fallen off the benzo quit wagon, and got back on them at very low doses.

I know my reasons for use are grounded in the social anxiety and sensory issues my Autism causes me, it's become an ingrained and conditioned response by now. (It feels over dramatic and snow-flakey to call it PTSD - compared to the PTSD that some people have due to the horrors that they have seen, or the terrible things they have experienced, or had done to them. But continual lower level issues can add up in a similar way. and I believe it is a form of that, and it is commonly referred to in the Autism community.) No amount of CBT or therapy, walks in nature, or any of the other usual tips, are ever going to change that.

Things are already difficult even with benzos, but without them, the only way I could do it would be to give up work and become a total recluse. Or only use when I'm going to meet people, and only when their opinion of me matters. Ie people I;m going to be seeing regularly.

I guess I dont care anymore what strangers in the street or supermarket think of me any more, and that all pervasive fear of just stepping out of the house is absent with benzos. I feel it when I havent taken any. I guess this might fade in those situtations in time, to some extent.

I'll find out when I retire or loose or quit my job, because I cant think of any way I'll be able to quit benzos until any of those things happen.

In the meantime I could either give up work and live in poverty and stop taking benzos, or continue working and keep taking them. These seem to be my only 2 options atm.

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

We all have our reasons for using benzos, and I guess we have the choice of continuing down the same path, or stopping, or finding some middle ground, of having days/weeks/or months off, which obviously should help with the tolerance and dependence issues. Option 3 would be ideal for me. But I cannot do it at present, due to needing to hold down a job, and the working environment would send my anxiety and sensory issues off the scale.

The 2020 lockdown and 3 months of furlough allowed me to do a full abstinence reset. It was very easy as I didn't have to mix with any people. Which was so helpful, although my use was already much lighter at that time, as it hadnt been too long since I'd fallen off the benzo quit wagon, and got back on them at very low doses.

I know my reasons for use are grounded in the social anxiety and sensory issues my Autism causes me, it's become an ingrained and conditioned response by now. (It feels over dramatic and snow-flakey to call it PTSD - compared to the PTSD that some people have due to the horrors that they have seen, or the terrible things they have experienced, or had done to them. But continual lower level issues can add up in a similar way. and I believe it is a form of that, and it is commonly referred to in the Autism community.) No amount of CBT or therapy, walks in nature, or any of the other usual tips, are ever going to change that.

Things are already difficult even with benzos, but without them, the only way I could do it would be to give up work and become a total recluse. Or only use when I'm going to meet people, and only when their opinion of me matters. Ie people I;m going to be seeing regularly.

I guess I dont care anymore what strangers in the street or supermarket think of me any more, and that all pervasive fear of just stepping out of the house is absent with benzos. I feel it when I havent taken any. I guess this might fade in those situtations in time, to some extent.

I'll find out when I retire or loose or quit my job, because I cant think of any way I'll be able to quit benzos until any of those things happen.

In the meantime I could either give up work and live in poverty and stop taking benzos, or continue working and keep taking them. These seem to be my only 2 options atm.

Textbook addiction spiral, buddy. And you're justifying the continuation of said addiction by saying that the alternative is unemployment and fear of leaving the house.

It isn't easy to break through that kind of dysfunctional thinking, but until you do, you're a slave to the pills. And the cognitive impairment will only get worse, so you're progressively making yourself stupid. Not that I think you're stupid, but I imagine you're a different fella when sober. And I mean consistently free of benzos in the medium to long term, not just the odd temporary reduction.

 

[Bleaney]

Textbook addiction spiral, buddy. And you're justifying the continuation of said addiction by saying that the alternative is unemployment and fear of leaving the house.

It isn't easy to break through that kind of dysfunctional thinking, but until you do, you're a slave to the pills. And the cognitive impairment will only get worse, so you're progressively making yourself stupid. Not that I think you're stupid, but I imagine you're a different fella when sober. And I mean consistently free of benzos in the medium to long term, not just the odd temporary reduction.

It's easy to come to such conclusions when you don't have the full background. I just don't have the energy or inclination right now to go into more depth or to explain myself further. But in a nutshell I would not be able to cope with my current working environment without benzos. I would have to quit on mental health grounds, due to the overwhelming stress and anxiety the environment would cause me. Benzos definitely help improve my social skills and reduce my Autistic presentations. Self presentation is a challenge for many Autistic people, and the more Autistic your presentation, the more unacceptable that is to other people, and the world becomes more and more hostile or just turns it's back on you.

Unless you've experienced that, then you have absolutely no idea what it's like to have debilitating social anxiety on top of difficulties with self presentation caused by Autism and anxiety. The world does not understand, accept, or accommodate such differences. Maybe in 50 years there will be an increased level of awareness and acceptance, but we are currently a very long way off.

Since starting benzos I've had 6 months total abstinence, preceeded by the most gradual taper, so it was probably 12 months with either no benzos or extremely low doses that were next to nothing.

Life was so difficult. Every aspect about being around other people. The only way in which my life was better without benzos is that all aspects of my home management and finances were a lot better managed. The former is now a constant struggle. But I also have ADHD on top, so that's relatively normal.

I'm not asking for violins, or saying "poor me". I know there are worse things than what I live with. Besides severe physical disabilities or injuries, and illnesses, some people have schizophrenia, or bipolar, on top of the cluster of conditions I have. I'm thankful I don't have that extra level of difficulties, but trust me, things are already on ultra diffficult mode. If life was a computer game., For those with the most serious mental disorders on top, I have no idea how they manage to survive. Others have various forms of personality disorders on top.. I don't think I have any of those.

I don't believe my thinking is dysfunctional, it is an adaptation to the reality I live with.

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

Perhaps I know more than you think.

And whatever rationalisation you tie yourself up in, you're basically admitting defeat here and resigning yourself to a future where you're either dependent on benzos or completely withdrawn from society. Outside of a carefully supervised NHS benzo script (which isn't happening, as you probably know), the situation you're in isn't sustainable, and you probably haven't even been thinking clearly for the entire duration of your addiction.

Hideous and insidious. Benzos, that is.

 

[Bleaney]

Around 80% of diagnosed Autistic people do not work. The struggle is real.

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

Maybe so, but I've encountered many who do. And 'autistic' is such a broad word to use; you're lumping in nonverbal, low-functioning individuals with people who display far fewer or comparatively mild symptoms. And those in the middle.

Not saying it's a walk in the park even with 'milder' symptoms, but I do have a lousy condition myself, and I work because it gets me out of the house and it's genuinely beneficial for me.

Obviously it'd be easier to sail through the working days vallied up, but it ultimately backfires. And anyway, why not aspire to be one of the 20%? Surely that's an achievement?

 

[Bleaney]

I am one of the 20%, and have been for most of my working life.

I understand where you're coming from. If I could find a working environment that could accommodate my unmasked Autism, then I'd do that, and get tapering off benzos asap.

Unfortunately, I don't think such a place exists at this moment in time.

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

Don't think it'll ever exist. The lines may be redrawn when it comes to certain matters such as gender, but 'the other' will always be 'the other'. Chimpanzee social dynamics are still the model when it comes to the modern workplace.

 

[BadBoy377]

I am one of the 20%, and have been for most of my working life.

I understand where you're coming from. If I could find a working environment that could accommodate my unmasked Autism, then I'd do that, and get tapering off benzos asap.

Unfortunately, I don't think such a place exists at this moment in time.

Massive respect for you @Bleaney .

So, if you could pick and do any job you wanted what would be your ideal career that would be a good working environment for you?

 

[50shadesofDave]

How much are they? I just picked up 50 x 5 mg legit diazepam for $6.20 aud.

I've just purchased 40 5mg for £50 ish from a clearnet vendor.

It's great having the best taper available down on paper, but it's down to the quality of what you can purchase, I've found this out recently.
I had been maintaining 30mg diaz, usually bensedin, however, feeling they varied in dose I bought some 5mg last month to see if I can establish exactly where I'm at tolerance wise, 25mg for the last five days with no wd's etc.
See what happens.

Take care folks.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Hi Bleaney, I'm sorry to hear you have been going through this too, it's a fucker to pin down, I've been on a knife edge of withdrawals for months now, must be random dose pills playing a part also, and I'll admit to breaking a pill in half in the early hours due to waking between 3-4am, messing my own tolerance, although this is a handful of times.

I did a fair bit of digging last night and I'm sure I'm dealing with tolerance withdrawal, so much so I made myself really anxious and fell off the wagon (booze) Not moved off the sofa all day.

As you say 'it is what it is'.

Take it easy fella.

Research pretty much proves benzodiazepines are neurotoxic to a degree; it might be trivial for some but significant segment of people do develop some neurotoxicity even on moderate therapeutic daily dose of diazepam, it is only a matter of time. This possibly contributes to phenomenon; nervous system is not working properly anymore even if it is helped with these positive allosteric modulators.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

And you're justifying the continuation of said addiction by saying that the alternative is unemployment and fear of leaving the house.

I am not intending to argue about whatever you want to argue otherwise, but I could have never quit benzos if I hadn't become unemployed while suffering of PTSD and stuff. Because my ability to function was already so thin, and it was before getting into benzos, withdrawals while having the job would have at least forced me to very long sickness leave or I would have been forced to quit. I was actually so broken of trauma that I started benzos in order to be able to keep on working. It took 3 and half years to get into better place.

I can not realistically keep on doing society stuff without at least weed in most evenings either. 27 hour circadian rhythm and other insomnia factors.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I am one of the 20%, and have been for most of my working life.

I understand where you're coming from. If I could find a working environment that could accommodate my unmasked Autism, then I'd do that, and get tapering off benzos asap.

Unfortunately, I don't think such a place exists at this moment in time.

it is fucked up, over here in Finland also everything is ruined so bad that it can be hard to earn enough to live without working full hours and it is often only contract that is offered also and there is competition of jobs. I am student on three different income support models and if I earn ANY salary, it is ALL removed from my income supports. It is disgusting, our societies are iterating towards really high and exclusive standards for person that can be granted respect and human rights.

sry for three consecutive posts, I would merge them otherwise but quotes make it too difficult.

 

[Bleaney]

Research pretty much proves benzodiazepines are neurotoxic to a degree; it might be trivial for some but significant segment of people do develop some neurotoxicity even on moderate therapeutic daily dose of diazepam, it is only a matter of time. This possibly contributes to phenomenon; nervous system is not working properly anymore even if it is helped with these positive allosteric modulators.

I don't recall seeing or reading of any specific neuro-toxicity than benzos can cause. Although I can believe it may be possible, and will look into it.

To me, the main problem has always seemed to be that the brain down-regulates it's own GABA levels in response to regular use of benzos. And I believe that most people who are drawn to benzos generally already have something amiss with their GABA levels in the first place. So the combination of those 2 things can become a pretty severe problem in time. And the only solution to it, for those that wish to quit benzos, is a long and gradual taper, and a lot of time. 6 months post taper completion is average apparently, but it can take up to 5 years in the worst cases!

GABA re-upregulation is literally a painstakingingly slow process. Research suggests that Autistic people have low/deficient/ or otherwise abnormal GABA levels. So if that is the case it suggests that it's never going to be right for some with ASD.

It only feels right in my experience, when I first start using benzos, until tolerance catches up, and then I need to increase the dose. Which leads to even further down-regulation. Or take a break, and then re-start.

 

[Bleaney]

Massive respect for you @Bleaney .

So, if you could pick and do any job you wanted what would be your ideal career that would be a good working environment for you?

I dunno. Lighthouse keeper on some remote island?

With just some dogs to look after and keep me company, and an internet connection. That sounds pretty good.

 

[BadBoy377]

Lighthouse keeper sounds like a cool job.although having seen The lighthouse I'm not so sure. Good film though. Would recommend. Anyone want to hazard a guess about what happens at end?

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

Lighthouse keeper sounds like a cool job.although having seen The lighthouse I'm not so sure. Good film though. Would recommend. Anyone want to hazard a guess about what happens at end?

errr,
the house lit up?
The lighthouse keeper nicked the massive lighthouse bulb to make a meth vape out of it and because of that a fleet of pirate ships crashed into a rubber dinghy in the darkness?
The lighthouse was revealed to be a Martian rocket ship in disguise and threw itself into the sea in shame?
@Zopiclone bandit was found in the lighthouse mumbling never-before heard curses entrusted to him by Kali while hunched over the almost-dead body of Ganjacat?

Am I close?

 

[BadBoy377]

Erm, like all art it's open to interpretation.

I'd say your close. If not bang on. You're fond of me lobster, aye? The lobster being the old dudes cock which is scaled and smells a bit fishy from no washing. Mystery solved. I can sleep easy now. Ta.