E and socilization (please read before moving)!!

[quale]

Before someone starts bitching or closes this thread because it is about E this is a serious question following up the thread on what causes you the most euphoria. I would like to get the opinions of the same general group of people who posted not a bunch of crap philosophy from e-tarded ravers.
Isn't it ironic that all the smart people on BL seem to be heroin users? Whats up with that.
Anyway so many of you said that ecstasy was your most euphoric drug. Now is this a consequence of just e itself being that fucking good or taking it in a party/social context and recieving approving feelings for others? (do you see why I don't want to ask this in the e forum). Before you lost the magic was e when you were alone better than coke or heroin or whatever?
The motivation of this question is to find out whether the euphoriant properties of e are really from the direct action of the drug or through our normal reward system for socialization which is hijaked by ecstasy. As animal studies definatly show cocaine has a greater effect on dopamaine in the VTA this would kill alot of theories about what chemical systems are involved in euphoria. If it is just a result of the socialization then the neurotransmitters released in animal studies aren't analogous to the ones released by your brain during a rave on e.

 

[Genasirus]

Just a second...
"Isn't it ironic that all the smart people on BL seem to be heroin users? Whats up with that."
*Stamps on your head*
*Stamps on your head a little harder*
Is that one of the fucking stupidiest things I have ever read on here?
*Shit sorry I'm still standing on your face*
The only way to compare heroin / cocaine to e is to specifically target 'mdma' as opposed to pills as these can contain anything: Draino, glass, disused wheelchairs, left over sheep from Samoa and other such ingredients.
The most 'euphoric' drug is easily mdma. As this is what it specifically does. It floods your system with serotonin. I think I can honestly say if you got a flashlight and sat your arse in a skip with the lid closed, did a point of pure mdma powder and sat their with your flashlight - you would fall intensely in love with the side of the skip.
Hope that clears it up.
Sorry bout the stamping thing.

 

[zergie]

I think the social context does play a big part. I took E alone one time and it was horrible. My body felt good, but I felt extremely lonely. I wanted to be around people, I couldn't wait for it to be over. I would not consider that euphoric at all. That said, I'm not a heroin user, so my opinion might not be worth much...

 

[superbabydoc]

Considering I am not a heroin user, by your logic I am not smart enough to respond to this thread. But what the hell, I'm going to do it anyway, just to prove you wrong.
You might find this (slightly old) page interesting: MDL7222: a serotonin 5-HT3 receptor antagonist, block's MDMA's ability to establish a conditioned place preference. It says:

it can be concluded that MDMA achieves at least some of its rewarding effects by acting, either directly or indirectly (e.g. by ways of its modulation of serotonin), at the 5-Ht3 receptor. Given that activity following activation of 5-HT3 receptors affects the release of dopamine, this cascade of events may be critical to MDMA's positivity.
Because MDMA affects dopaminergic systems and because 5-HT3 receptors affect the release of dopamine, these data are concordant with the dopaminergic theory of reinforcement. Furthermore, these results support the suggestions that compunds affecting 5-HT3 receptors may be of particular interest in studying the pahrmacology of self-administered drugs.

 

[goahead]

mmm let's see....
The serotonin release caused by MDMA makes you wanna go crowdsurfing. This in turn will also release dopamine and serotonin....
So Yes, you most likely get your best roll when with other people and paul van dijk playing, but optiates can satisfie in the most dull situation because they kill pain/discomfort....
Now being smart is not a matter of substance but if you are able to control it in a way that you
son't waste your health and your financial resources.

 

[goahead]

I DO agree that substances differ in the way they tax your health / financial resources / mess up your life in general. Example: I think it takes a very strong peron to do crack on a recreational basis every now and them, without becoming a dicksucking crackwhore.....

 

[goahead]

Maybe the heroin users on this board are stronger persons because they somehow still managed to have moeny left for paying broadband internet access.
The junkies in the gutter you will not speak on this board, but I NOW that some have been pretty close and some will drop out in the future....

 

[goahead]

Thank God I am a smart GHB user
"Comas ??!! Well I go in and out comas all the... "French toast please".

 

[Technical User]

I agree with what your saying quale. I myself now am what anyone would consider a junkie, but GOAHEAD, Guess What?, I'm a Junkie with Broadband!! And I still have money in my pocket, so that has nothing to do with anything!!!!
But in my hay days of MDMA expierementation,(I use every 6 months or so now- but very large, for the most part, unenjoyable doses) It sucked doing it alone. For the enjoyable part and the empathy was pretty much extinct.
The reation of the drug was far greater with loud intense sometimes frightening music, lights, and people. I feel that much of the anticipation of empathy and sometimes gratifying element is brought on by interaction and also the unrelated reators put into the equation.
For MDMA itself isn't the high, It acts to the already set chemical passages in your brain, accelerating seratonin in a way that cannot be done without this excact combination of molecules (whether in the brain or in the dose of the drug). It doesn't mask inside elements but lets them flow out as feeling, but with no interaction at all, feeling would be pretty much useless.
---

 

[*KANE*]

I don't feel smarter because I use dope , but I do think it has something to do with the fact that I experimented with most shit and settled down with one class , which is costing me too much , but I find the most useful. To me , that would be like saying that all pot smokers are stupid which many are especially the ones who listen to phish or led zepplin just because they smoke , but not all are dumb.
I really don't know what your question is though , sorry....

 

[quale]

Okay, I didn't mean to suggest that their weren't smart non-heroin users on BL nor that heroin makes one smarter. Just statistally they are doing way better than the e users.
My question is in short is MDMA as euphoric (as say IV coke) if you do it alone.

 

[SovietContin]

Anyway so many of you said that ecstasy was your most euphoric drug. Now is this a consequence of just e itself being that fucking good or taking it in a party/social context and recieving approving feelings for others? (do you see why I don't want to ask this in the e forum). Before you lost the magic was e when you were alone better than coke or heroin or whatever?
It's not just because it's euphoric alone, IMO.
While I was one of the weird people who enjoyed rolling alone, the experience was pretty different. It would amplify feelings of loneliness. I think the attraction to rolling alone for me was just for the sake of having a very introspective experience.
Something about social stimulation would allow you to really focus on the euphoric and physical effects. When using it alone, the effects on the emotions it had would be much more prominent almost to the point that it would drown out the euphoria and physical sensations.
As for the heroin comment, you all missed it. If he had tried to ask this in the ecstasy forum, it's unlikely he would have had any intelligent or thought out or even understandable answers. OD is known for having a lot of regulars that are junkies. Most of the regs in here are capable of writing intelligent answers that are thought out and full of information. Considering the general stereotype of heroin addicts, it is ironic.
He wasn't saying that you have to be a heroin addict to be smart. He wasn't saying heroin addicts are the smartest people.

 

[C21H23NO5]

^^^ Right on sovietcontin. I preferred to roll alone as well. When rolling with others, it would feel like masturbation, just senseless pleasure, etc, but when rolling alone, I would always get something from the deeply introspective, emotional roll that was produced. I would always make connections and structure my thought during the roll, it helped a lot, i'm sure.

 

[Genasirus]

"Okay, I didn't mean to suggest that their weren't smart non-heroin users on BL nor that heroin makes one smarter. Just statistally they are doing way better than the e users."
My only question is where in gods name you have the statistical information to back up a claim like that ?

 

[drab4]

Yeah for me personally MDMA is the most EUPHORIC drug no matter what the setting. Sure it's better with loads of other pill heads but the euphoria is still there for me on my own. Although when on my own I often don't want to feel euphoric, so I'll take other drugs instead.

 

[quale]

> Although when on my own I often don't want to feel euphoric
I just don't understand this. How can one not want to feel euphoric. I thought euphoria was almost defined to be a pleasurable experience.
Thanks for the detalied response soviet.
Jesus christ people lay off the heroin comment. I am not trying to insult you not make scientific claims about statistical populations. I was only explaining why I was posting it in otherdrugs and sharing what I thought to be an amusing thought on the issue which as soviet pointed out is amusing because it is at odds with our common expectation.
I agree I should not have used statistical in the previous post it implied a claim stronger than the one I wanted to make which simply was it is funny that the 'junkies' in otherdrugs often have more intelligent conversations then the college kids in the e discussion. This only reflects personal observation and is of course a generalization that does not hold all the time.

 

[fairnymph]

I will comment more later, but I just wanted to note that...
A greater percentage of the population uses MDMA (when compared to how many use heroin)...thus you naturally get more stupid people using it...and then take into account the fact that heroin is extremely addictive, and so it's more likely that users will become junkies (and junkies to such an extent that they can no longer afford internet access, let alone care about such things)...well then of course, all the heroin junkies left are going to have to be moderately smart. But that does not mean that heroin users are smarter than MDMA users to begin with.
Seeing as I foolishly chose to experiment with the nasty weed plant last night, I am not being too lucid at the moment, but hopefully I made *some* sense.

 

[NoriegA]

If only the smart people do dope does that make you stupid...

 

[CuriousCub]

Soviet--cheers on your clear explanations of everything herein. i couldn't agree with you more on it all.

I am not being too lucid at the moment, but hopefully I made *some* sense.
u made plenty, at least to me.

 

[toastyroachy]

heroin is definetly no where near as euphoric as E..... i dont find heroin very euphoric at all.... crack and coke is a lot better in the short term