E + 5 HTP - Should I be worried about serotonin syndrome?

[Pensive]

Since this is my first ever post, I'm going to tell my little story before getting to my question. If you haven't the time, or cannot be arsed, to read it, I won't blame you in the slightest - just skip to the bottom. Either way, hi there

Ok, so basically I started rolling last September, having only ever smoked pot before. I fell in love with E, it helped me discover who I am and who I want to be. I started going out once or twice a week with a close friend. We only ever dropped one pill and tolerance developed pretty quickly, but we didn't mind. I used to drink heavily on nights out - rare were the times when it didn't end up in vomit and blackout. On E I was a completely different person to when I drank, I was so much friendlier and had the confidence to act as I wanted, as opposed to being crippled by anxiety and drowning my thoughts and fears. So yeah, whilst tolerance grew and our experiences became less magical, I still much preferred a slightly watered down version of E to a night out drinking and being an ass. This lasted until the end of December. Sadly I had been blind to the impact this was having on my physical and mental health. Realizing how much weight I'd lost and how dumb I'd been abusing this beautiful drug, I had a massive breakdown over Christmas. I subsequently went completely clean and focused on getting my health back, starting with nutrition.

Six months down the line, I'm doing a lot better. I did E a couple of weeks ago and it went quite well. I was really nervous about it which didn't help on the night, but I'm feeling much better about doing it in the future, albeit with much more sensible regularity than before. I'm really eager to limit the damage I cause to my serotonin and dopamine levels and receptors - I'm sleeping well, stopped smoking pot and eat insanely healthily with a focus on foods high in the amino acids Tryptophan and Tyrosine, the former serving as a precursor to serotonin, the latter known to raise dopamine levels. As of next week I'm going to start taking 5 HTP.

This brings to my question - the next time I roll, should I space out 5 HTP and dropping E? As in, if I go out on a Saturday, can I take 5 HTP that morning and not worry about serotonin syndrome? Or should I stop taking it for a few days before? I don't really understand a lot about serotonin syndrome and how it works, all I know is that I'd rather avoid it, haha. I'd also be interested in anyone's experiences with 5 HTP and the impact it has on their daily lives. I've also read it can alter your roll, but I've got no idea how and whether this is in a positive or negative way.

I know this is a fair bit of text and I've waffled on, but any response would be much appreciated. If there's a thread on this already feel free to simply redirect me. I figure it's best to find out and try and be as safe as possible rather than worrying about nasty possibilities which could occur

 

[Folley]

5-HTP is best taken after, not before, MDMA use. 48 hours is a good amount of time in between the two

 

[Pensive]

Thanks! Just to clarify though, I plan on using 5 HTP as a daily supplement rather than just to make my comedown better. Should I skip my dose for a couple of days before and after I roll, just to be safe?

 

[Folley]

Yeah, don't use it as a daily supplement. L-Tryptophan is much better for you. 5-HTP is only supposed to be used after MDMA

 

[xx001]

I have taken 5-htp about 7 hours before dosing the mdma on one occasion and was just fine. This is referred to as pre-loading. I personally don't think it really helps that much and there is a risk if too much is in your system, this being said, taking a responsible dose of mdma is the most important thing. 5-htp is good for recovering from the post-mdma crash though, but the best method of "preloading" is just to let your serotonin levels recover naturally by taking at least 2 month breaks in between uses.

 

[JWills20]

Its absolutely fine and there is no strong rationale to suggest it would cause Serotonin Syndrome.

 

[futura2012]

Or should I stop taking it for a few days before?

I would say its good to take before rolling but best stop 24 hours prior to be 100% safe. However, in reality the chances of getting serotonin syndrome by taking 5HTP on the day of a roll are very slim. Some argue there is still a small risk.

I have heard of a few users claiming they had caused problems to themselves from mixing the two.

I have also heard of people taking it during rolling and had no issues.

Best not to risk it i think.

I don't really understand a lot about serotonin syndrome and how it works

This is the best diagram I could find to illustrate a bit about what goes on. This infact shows the mechanism of SSRIs how they are blocking the reuptake of serotonin but its a nice easy to follow diagram.

Serotonin Syndrome is caused by excess Serotonin Activity

MDMA binds to the Vesicle transporter which is Number 3 in the diagram. Through various mechanism this causes a flood release of serotonin into the synaptic cleft which is the gap between the Post Synaptic Neuron and the Pre Synaptic Neuron (as per diagram).

Once the serotonin has transmitted its signal into the Post Synaptic Neuron via the Serotonin Receptor (5) it is then recycled and makes its way back to the Pre Synaptic Neuron via the reuptake transporter. This recycling of serotonin performs a vital role in regulating how much serotonin is left in the Synaptic Cleft.

As you can see MDMA interferes with quite a complex mechanism of serotonin movement and if you introduce more 5HTP at position 2 in the diagram there is a risk of you bringing more serotonin into the mix to what is already a compromised system. The rationale now being if you bring more serotonin into the mix you create more serotonin activity and thus Serotonin Syndrome could result. You could infact cause serotonin syndrome by just MDMA alone as it still has the potential to cause excessive serotonin activity but once again the chances of this happening seem very slim.

That is the theory in a very superficial nutshell. In reality it seems the brain has quite tight control over how much 5HTP is converted to serotonin so although 5HTP may be present it wont necessarily become serotonin. Also it is argued a lot of the 5HTP you take is very quickly absorbed by the liver before it even gets to the brain.

When you look at this diagram you can see how the "blue cloud" represents how the area of reuptake is blocked. This prevents the serotonin from being recycled. By blocking this recycling effect it has a massive effect on the effects of rolling. This is why if you are taking SSRIs during taking MDMA then the roll is totally nullified.

 

[swedger77]

This is always a bit of a hot topic on this forum with hugely differing opinions. There are arguments on both sides of the 5-HTP discussion.

I am a huge fan of the supplement and take it as a sleep aid 300mg before bed. However as an aid to ease the low mood following a good MDMA binge, I think 5-HTP is an unbelievable product. FOR ME it really does eliminate the Tuesday blues. I can compare multiple occasions of taking 5-HTP after MDMA against multiple occasions of not taking 5-HTP and everytime with out fail the low mood aspect of a comedown is eliminated.

2 years ago in Ibiza I was taking MDMA (and Ket and coke ) most days of a 7 day holiday along with 5-HTP and continued with the 5-HTP the following week. No real problems apart from the fatique expected after putting your body through the mill.

Last year in Ibiza I ran out of 5-HTP towards the end of the holiday, the following week, even 2 weeks was the worst comedown I have ever had. Brutal. Felt totally depressed. - pretty anecdotal, but I can only tell you my experience.

Needless to say I'll be making sure I have plenty 5-HTP.

As to your question ...should you space it out? Possibly is the answer. No one really knows. I wont be spacing out 5-HTP in Ibiza this year, I'll take 300mg to aid before bed and possible another 100mg in the day. At the end of the day the jury is out on 5-HTP causing serotonin syndrome so its your call.

 

[JWills20]

I would say its good to take before rolling but best stop 24 hours prior to be 100% safe. However, in reality the chances of getting serotonin syndrome by taking 5HTP on the day of a roll are very slim. Some argue there is still a small risk.

I have heard of a few users claiming they had caused problems to themselves from mixing the two.

I have also heard of people taking it during rolling and had no issues.

Best not to risk it i think.



This is the best diagram I could find to illustrate a bit about what goes on. This infact shows the mechanism of SSRIs how they are blocking the reuptake of serotonin but its a nice easy to follow diagram.

Serotonin Syndrome is caused by excess Serotonin Activity

MDMA binds to the Vesicle transporter which is Number 3 in the diagram. Through various mechanism this causes a flood release of serotonin into the synaptic cleft which is the gap between the Post Synaptic Neuron and the Pre Synaptic Neuron (as per diagram).

Once the serotonin has transmitted its signal into the Post Synaptic Neuron via the Serotonin Receptor (5) it is then recycled and makes its way back to the Pre Synaptic Neuron via the reuptake transporter. This recycling of serotonin performs a vital role in regulating how much serotonin is left in the Synaptic Cleft.

As you can see MDMA interferes with quite a complex mechanism of serotonin movement and if you introduce more 5HTP at position 2 in the diagram there is a risk of you bringing more serotonin into the mix to what is already a compromised system. The rationale now being if you bring more serotonin into the mix you create more serotonin activity and thus Serotonin Syndrome could result. You could infact cause serotonin syndrome by just MDMA alone as it still has the potential to cause excessive serotonin activity but once again the chances of this happening seem very slim.

That is the theory in a very superficial nutshell. In reality it seems the brain has quite tight control over how much 5HTP is converted to serotonin so although 5HTP may be present it wont necessarily become serotonin. Also it is argued a lot of the 5HTP you take is very quickly absorbed by the liver before it even gets to the brain.

When you look at this diagram you can see how the "blue cloud" represents how the area of reuptake is blocked. This prevents the serotonin from being recycled. By blocking this recycling effect it has a massive effect on the effects of rolling. This is why if you are taking SSRIs during taking MDMA then the roll is totally nullified.

Nice post. One thing that I don't understand, with regard to SSRI's & MDMA, is why it actually nullifies the rolling experience? If MDMA's proposed mechanism of action is, primarily, frontal - whereby serotonin is released into the synapse and then reuptake is blocked - why does initially blocking 5-HT reuptake, with SSRI's, affect the amount of Serotonin situated within the synapse during MDMA? Intuitively, that would cause a stronger rolling experience. I.E. MDMA binds to 5-HT receptors, releases Serotonin into the synaptic cleft, which is then blocked from re-cycling by both the SSRI & MDMA. I feel like I must be missing something!?

Unless, alot of MDMA's serotonergic actions occur from the reversal of the reuptake transporters theory. Thus, SSRI's blunt the reuptake transporters response to MDMA's reversal action and thereby limit the amount of MDMA in the synapse.

It all looks pretty complex - am I missing the main reason why SSRI's blunt the MDMA experience?

 

[futura2012]

If MDMA's proposed mechanism of action is, primarily, frontal - whereby serotonin is released into the synapse and then reuptake is blocked - why does initially blocking 5-HT reuptake, with SSRI's, affect the amount of Serotonin situated within the synapse during MDMA? Intuitively, that would cause a stronger rolling experience. I.E. MDMA binds to 5-HT receptors, releases Serotonin into the synaptic cleft, which is then blocked from re-cycling by both the SSRI & MDMA. I feel like I must be missing something!?

Good question. I have two possible theories.

The SSRI blocks the reuptake and as a result causes the Neuron to sense a lack of serotonin and produces more. Also as a result of this more serotonin is also left in the synaptec cleft but I think the main AD action is to promote further production of seretonin.

When MDMA comes along it binds to the Vesicle (3) and then promotes a huge burst of what serotonin is there. Because the vesicle has been emptied and the reuptake is blocked then nothing can recycle. Only serotonin is left floating around the synaptec cleft. It seems the recycling process plays a vital part in the transport of messages. I guess you could also argue why does this recycling process take place at all why not just leave a pile of serotonin in the synaptic cleft. I think you need a certain proportion of serotonin back in the presynaptic Neuron to make the electrical impulses to flow. Or alternatively in the case of an SSRI where reuptake is blocked it pulls its supply by making more.

The other possibloe theory I have read which seems to make sense is the MDMA enters the Neuron via the reuptake transporter and as a result is actually blocked all together from entering the Neuron. As a result it cannot have any effect.

Im not sure which theory is correct a nudge to an ADD mod might be able to help us figure this out. Ebola always helps us in ED. Swampfox might also have a clue.

Unless, alot of MDMA's serotonergic actions occur from the reversal of the reuptake transporters theory. Thus, SSRI's blunt the reuptake transporters response to MDMA's reversal action and thereby limit the amount of MDMA in the synapse.

Thats another thought perhaps MDMA also tackles the reuptake transporters which is part of the roll. Once you put an SSRI in the mix then it prevents any adjustments to reuptake transporters being made.

MDMA is also listed as a partial 5HT1 and 5HT2 agonist. How this comes into play then my understanding starts to dwindle.

It all looks pretty complex - am I missing the main reason why SSRI's blunt the MDMA experience?

Its mega complex considering this is just one of the neurotransmitters then theres all the hormones it tackles and the enzymes. You also have all the various types of receptor 5HT1, 5HT2, 5HT3, 5HT4 etc etc.

No your not missing anything in my attempts to simplify I havent really explained a valid argument for why SSRIs block the roll.

 

[JWills20]

Good question. I have two possible theories.

The SSRI blocks the reuptake and as a result causes the Neuron to sense a lack of serotonin and produces more. Also as a result of this more serotonin is also left in the synaptec cleft but I think the main AD action is to promote further production of seretonin.

When MDMA comes along it binds to the Vesicle (3) and then promotes a huge burst of what serotonin is there. Because the vesicle has been emptied and the reuptake is blocked then nothing can recycle. Only serotonin is left floating around the synaptec cleft. It seems the recycling process plays a vital part in the transport of messages. I guess you could also argue why does this recycling process take place at all why not just leave a pile of serotonin in the synaptic cleft. I think you need a certain proportion of serotonin back in the presynaptic Neuron to make the electrical impulses to flow. Or alternatively in the case of an SSRI where reuptake is blocked it pulls its supply by making more.

The other possibloe theory I have read which seems to make sense is the MDMA enters the Neuron via the reuptake transporter and as a result is actually blocked all together from entering the Neuron. As a result it cannot have any effect.

Im not sure which theory is correct a nudge to an ADD mod might be able to help us figure this out. Ebola always helps us in ED. Swampfox might also have a clue.



Thats another thought perhaps MDMA also tackles the reuptake transporters which is part of the roll. Once you put an SSRI in the mix then it prevents any adjustments to reuptake transporters being made.

MDMA is also listed as a partial 5HT1 and 5HT2 agonist. How this comes into play then my understanding starts to dwindle.



Its mega complex considering this is just one of the neurotransmitters then theres all the hormones it tackles and the enzymes. You also have all the various types of receptor 5HT1, 5HT2, 5HT3, 5HT4 etc etc.

No your not missing anything in my attempts to simplify I havent really explained a valid argument for why SSRIs block the roll.

Fair enough. I'd be intrigued to hear what some of the ADD guys have to say about this topic.

 

[ebola?]

I think that Futura has a good handle on most of the processes at hand, but there are a few needed clarifications.

However, in reality the chances of getting serotonin syndrome by taking 5HTP on the day of a roll are very slim. Some argue there is still a small risk.

Right, and I'd say the additional risks are nigh negligible compared to the chance of SSyndrome caused by MDMA taken alone (this happens rarely...with SSRIs too), though I wouldn't recommend dosing super high on either compound. While 5htp bypasses the usual rate-limiting factor (hydroxylation of tryptophan), much will metabolize to 5ht outside the brain where it can't do too much good (it's stuck behind the BBB). But the whole synthesis process is slow in general, hence the amount of recovery time required between uses.

Some people report that taking 5htp concurrent with MDMA attenuates the roll. I see how this could happen with regular dosing beforehand over a long period, as increased synthesis of 5ht could induce receptor-downregulation. I wouldn't worry about this much though. If I understand correctly, you are about to start supplementing 5htp to try to correct a suspected lack of serotonergic function following prior use of entactogens. Maybe you should wait until the 5htp supplement seems unnecessary to dose MDMA. This might also give some time for unwanted receptor-downregulation to abate.

When dosing 5htp as a post-load, I try to aim for near the end of the plateau of the roll, but I usually forget. It also doesn't seem to make much of a difference for me.

The SSRI blocks the reuptake and as a result causes the Neuron to sense a lack of serotonin and produces more. Also as a result of this more serotonin is also left in the synaptec cleft but I think the main AD action is to promote further production of seretonin.

I don't think that this is right. The primary function of SSRIs is to increase intersynaptic 5ht by blocking reuptake. Indeed, this will reduce presynaptic concentrations of 5ht temporarily, but the endogenous synthesis for 5ht is severely rate-limited by hydroxylation of tryptophan, so reduced concentrations of 5ht shouldn't strongly accelerate its synthesis. And then the anti-depressant effect stems from some complex chain of downstream effects that is not yet well understood.

When MDMA comes along it binds to the Vesicle (3) and then promotes a huge burst of what serotonin is there. Because the vesicle has been emptied and the reuptake is blocked then nothing can recycle. Only serotonin is left floating around the synaptec cleft.

I thought that it was more significant that MDMA binds to SERT (and VMAT2), causing enzymatic alteration of the transporter, leading it to transport 5ht in the opposite direction. However, when an SSRI binds to the transporter, it's usually with a higher affinity for SERT than MDMA, thus preventing MDMA from altering transporter function.

You make a good point about releasers having a secondary mechanism, whereby they diffuse past the presynaptic membrane and into the vesicles' walls, altering the ion gradient, causing leakage of monoamines. As to what extent this is the case with MDMA at SERT expressing neurons I'm not sure.

However, releasers function as reuptake inhibitors as well, because when a releaser-ligand binds to a transporter, that transporter can't function to reuptake either. So either way, prominence of '5ht cycling' can't explain the interaction between SSRIs and MDMA.

MDMA is also listed as a partial 5HT1 and 5HT2 agonist. How this comes into play then my understanding starts to dwindle.

Some study suggests that 5ht2b agonism is key in mediating entactogens' 5ht release. If you look to a schematic of the downstream effects, even just the intracellular ones, there's something complex going on that I don't understand well.

ebola

 

[JWills20]

I think that Futura has a good handle on the processes at hand, and I don't think that I have much to add.



Right, and I'd say the additional risks are nigh negligible compared to the chance of SSyndrome caused by MDMA taken alone (this happens rarely...with SSRIs too), though I wouldn't recommend dosing super high on either compound. While 5htp bypasses the usual rate-limiting factor (hydroxylation of tryptophan), much will metabolize to 5ht outside the brain where it can't do too much good (it's stuck behind the BBB). But the whole synthesis process is slow in general, hence the amount of recovery time required between uses.

Some people report that taking 5htp concurrent with MDMA attenuates the roll. I see how this could happen with regular dosing beforehand over a long period, as increased synthesis of 5ht could induce receptor-downregulation. I wouldn't worry about this much though. If I understand correctly, about to start supplementing 5htp to try to correct a suspected lack of serotonergic function. Maybe you should wait until the 5htp supplement seems unnecessary to dose MDMA.

When dosing 5htp, I try to aim for near the end of the plateau of the roll, but I usually forget. It also doesn't seem to make much of a difference for me.




I don't think that this is quite right. The primary function of SSRIs is to increase intersynaptic 5ht by blocking reuptake. Indeed, this will reduce presynaptic concentrations of 5ht temporarily, but the endogenous synthesis for 5ht is severely rate-limited by hydroxylation of tryptophan, so reduced concentrations of 5ht shouldn't strongly accelerate its synthesis.




I thought that it was more significant that MDMA binds to SERT (and VMAT2), causing enzymatic alteration of the transporter, leading it to transport 5ht in the opposite direction. However, when an SSRI binds to the transporter, it's usually with a higher affinity for SERT than MDMA, thus preventing MDMA from altering transporter function.

You make a good point about releasers having a secondary mechanism, whereby they diffuse past the presynaptic membrane and into the vesicles' walls, altering the ion gradient, causing leakage of monoamines. As to what extent this is the case with MDMA at SERT expressing neurons I'm not sure.

However, releasers function as reuptake inhibitors as well, because when a releaser-ligand binds to a transporter, that transporter can't function to reuptake either. So either way, prominence of '5ht cycling' can't explain the interaction between SSRIs and MDMA.




Some study suggests that 5ht2b agonism is key in mediating entactogens' 5ht release.

ebola

Thanks for your input. From what I gathered, the actual mechanism that causes the blunting of an MDMA experience is unknown, but probably due to the reversal of uptake transporters being inhibited by SSRI's. Then again, the proposed mechanism of MDMA's serotonergic function is the frontal pathway of 5HT release, and the reversal theory is more downplayed/not even mentioned (at least on layman friendly sources, such as dancesafe.org). I don't suppose there are actually any studies examining MDMA co-administered with SSRI's to actually validate any of this?

Once again, cheers for commenting.

 

[ebola?]

the reversal theory is more downplayed/not even mentioned

Odd. Historically, that has been the best favored explanation. If it is wrong, then we have to account for why more selective 5ht2b agonists or vmat2 substrates don't cause serotonergic release.

And I bet such studies exist, but I unfortunately don't have them on-hand.

ebola

 

[ebola?]

Yeah, don't use it as a daily supplement. L-Tryptophan is much better for you. 5-HTP is only supposed to be used after MDMA

Tryptophan is opulent in diets with adequate protein, and endogenous enzymatic hydroxylation is slow, so it's unlikely to be a useful dietary supplement. The case is similar with tyrosine. Now if you eat a shitty diet (or in particular just eat way too little food) or want a tiny, marginally relevant boost, these supplements might be slightly worthwhile.

ebola

 

[Folley]

Typically I mean diets high in L-Tryptophan.. but he seems determined to take pills to make his pills work better

 

[JWills20]

Odd. Historically, that has been the best favored explanation. If it is wrong, then we have to account for why more selective 5ht2b agonists or vmat2 substrates don't cause serotonergic release.

And I bet such studies exist, but I unfortunately don't have them on-hand.

ebola

I have not, extensively, examined the actual literature. Like I said, on the 'Ecstasy's effects on the brain' sites they quite simply explain the mechanism as a frontal serotonin release - probably because its simpler and easier to understand. SSRI's, MDMA & nullified subjective experiences are easier explained with the reversal theory. Then again, it would not account for why some warn against SS with SSRI's & MDMA as surely SSRI's limit the amount of synpatic serotonin present as a result of MDMA. I guess this is just fear-mongering not grounded within science.

 

[Pensive]

Typically I mean diets high in L-Tryptophan.. but he seems determined to take pills to make his pills work better

This isn't true at all, although I guess I didn't make explicit what I actually am determined to do so I don't blame you for assuming this. I've been seeing a nutritionist to regain my health (and try to improve my visual snow that I've had since childhood, but that's a whole other matter) and when I discussed serotonin with her, she is the one who recommended 5 HTP to me. I am already eating an extremely healthy and nutrient dense diet which is very high both Tryptophan in Tyrosine. What I am trying to do is get healthy, all the while indulging now and then in safe (well, as safe as possible) ecstasy use. I am aware using ecstasy will set me back and, as a toxic substance, is an extra load on my liver, but at the end of day I see the pros as outweighing the cons. So to do this I'm both eating plenty of foods high in Tryptophan and Tyrosine, AND now taking 5 HTP. It's not even a case of wanting to make my rolls better but rather to make sure that my daily life and future remains as unaffected as possible. Well, unaffected in terms of negative aspects, because the therapeutic side of ecstasy can be really beneficial.

Thanks to everyone for responding, this seems like a great forum! Futura2012 your first post was really enlightening and accessible to me as a sociology undergraduate with very little prior interest in science, so big hugs to you

Does anyone know if regaining and maintaining good serotonin and dopamine levels can lead to receptors repairing themselves? Assuming, that is, that mine have been subject to damage.

 

[JWills20]

This isn't true at all, although I guess I didn't make explicit what I actually am determined to do so I don't blame you for assuming this. I've been seeing a nutritionist to regain my health (and try to improve my visual snow that I've had since childhood, but that's a whole other matter) and when I discussed serotonin with her, she is the one who recommended 5 HTP to me. I am already eating an extremely healthy and nutrient dense diet which is very high both Tryptophan in Tyrosine. What I am trying to do is get healthy, all the while indulging now and then in safe (well, as safe as possible) ecstasy use. I am aware using ecstasy will set me back and, as a toxic substance, is an extra load on my liver, but at the end of day I see the pros as outweighing the cons. So to do this I'm both eating plenty of foods high in Tryptophan and Tyrosine, AND now taking 5 HTP. It's not even a case of wanting to make my rolls better but rather to make sure that my daily life and future remains as unaffected as possible. Well, unaffected in terms of negative aspects, because the therapeutic side of ecstasy can be really beneficial.

Thanks to everyone for responding, this seems like a great forum! Futura2012 your first post was really enlightening and accessible to me as a sociology undergraduate with very little prior interest in science, so big hugs to you

Does anyone know if regaining and maintaining good serotonin and dopamine levels can lead to receptors repairing themselves? Assuming, that is, that mine have been subject to damage.

MDMA is extremely light on the liver of which any damage is, probably, negligible. Considering you're an undergraduate (I've just graduated), I'd limit your alcohol intake if you're really worried about that.

The assumption you made is probably not valid. I'd highly doubt your serotonin and dopamine receptors are damaged - unless you have a history of drug abuse. If they were damaged, you'd probably be feeling differently to how you did before. Occassional MDMA consumption is very unlikely to cause any chronic damage of which, while debatedly, can repair with time.

If you truely feel like you have damaged your brain, try and improve your lifestyle. I.E. Eat healthier, exercise more frequently, drink less, smoke less etc. But, in reality, it is probably unneccesary. Like yourself, I have indulged in occassional MDMA consumption for about 1 year and a half now. I have yet to experience one negative side effect, not to say they don't exist, yet, with harm reduction techniques, you should be fine. I've brought 5-HTP, multivitamins, anti-oxidants and often rarely even consumed them because I just feel fine. It probably boils down to moderating usage, keeping doses at an average range and ensuring that you're in fact taking MDMA everytime.

 

[futura2012]

I have finally figured out why SSRIs totally block the effect of rolling.

Thanks also to Ebola and coming in to ED from ADD and helping us all out with this.

You can see from the write up I am about to submit his comments were on the nail

The answer was my second theory which is that due to the strong inhibition of the Reuptake Receptor / Transporter from the SSRI then this prevents MDMA from even entering the Presynaptic Neuron. The MDMA is literally left floating around the Synaptic Gap/Cleft and is dispersed away.

This confirms that if you are on SSRIs then taking MDMA is literally pissing the MDMA up against a wall :D

Listed below are sections from a book I found that is the best MDMA Pharmacology information I have ever seen. It takes a little while to get your head aroud it but if you read this chapter slowly you will have a full insite into how MDMA actually works. This book is really well written and very easy to understand.

The last thing I want to discover is why taking an SSRI 2 hours into a roll prevents Neurotoxicity. I will post that in here if I can figure it out.

I would advise you that before reading this you have another look at the diagram I posted above then it makes it easier to follow: