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  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Dysphorogenic drugs?

seep said:
One of the most torturous psychiatric medicines of the 20th century was insulin. Ever seen A Beautiful Mind? The scene where John Nash is writhing in agony in a mental hospital. Something like this.
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I have suffered from severe hypoglycemia (or severe hyperinulinimia, no one can tell) a number of times and can attest to it being one of the most disgusting experiences ever. It is basically a simple overload of aimless fear and dysphoria.
 
No matter how many bad trips I've had though the worst feeling of my life was profound food intoxication from 'rotten' columbian psylocybe shrooms on an empty stomach after smoking a lot of weed.

Simple nausea can extend to a degree where your whole body is saturated with disgust, pain and terror. That time I was about to commit suicide cause I couldn't bare the pain and horror I was going through.

Nicotine overdose is also veeeery disphoric.

If I wanted to inflict a long lasting chemical torture to someone the requirements would be quite simple to find.
I was thinking about 3-400 mls of 70% alcohol + 1.5 grams of caffeine + 7 or more nicotine patches + a few 100mg of THC on an empty stomach. (I would throw in some Para-iodoamphetamine but that would almost surely kill him or her fucking up the whole intent).

Capsaicin injections would also be extremely painfull even if it has no psychological activity.
 
by the way, is there any lethal risk associated with dopamine suppression?
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Hyperprolactinemia.

As for the cruciation,

In those susceptible, a healthy IV of the experimental panicogen, Cholecystokinin Tetrapeptide, should suffice to start, with a side of WAY-1000135, ketanserin, and low-dose metrazol to augment the terror. Once the tachyphylaxis sets in within the first hour, reignite the anguish with an concentrated intraperitoneal injection of the polyhalogenated biphenyl plastic toxins and megadose naloxazone.

After sufficient bricks have been shat by your now-trembling victim(s), bring them promptly down to Earth with a smooth infusion of high-dose haloperidol and tetrabenazine, to be quickly followed by the traumatic 6-hydroxydopamine, Substance P, and superoxide anions.

The sadistic conclusion would likely involve some kind of climactic escalation...perhaps a well-measured overdose of intraventricular phencyclidine+salvinorin+hyoscyamine, followed lastly by a full olfactory bulbectomy and partial frontal lobotomy, to make certain that no effort went to waste.
 
Why exactly is hyperprolactinemia bad for you? I've been trying to find something on this for a while and haven't had much luck.
 
Why exactly is hyperprolactinemia bad for you?
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In males, serious endocrine complications can result, especially pertaining to the androgenic steroids upon which we depend for a variety of biological signaling processes. And sex.

You might also get bitch tits.
 
what about females?
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Waddabaddum? Naw, butsrs, being male, I never actually looked into the potential metabolic consequences of a chronically elevated lactation hormone in the other half of the human species...though I suppose anyone with actual [that is to say, genuinely female] tits might expect a doublestuffed fridge-full of fresh dairy, if you noewaddameen.

Not to mention some serious swelling...
 
Hehe, fair enough. I just found a fairly recent article about it - apparently it seems there is a link with osteoporosis, but not a clear connection with increased incidence of pituitary adenoma or breast/prostate cancer, which I found suggested somewhere on wikipedia and found a bit worrying.
 
P A said:
Hyperprolactinemia.

As for the cruciation,

In those susceptible, a healthy IV of the experimental panicogen, Cholecystokinin Tetrapeptide, should suffice to start, with a side of WAY-1000135, ketanserin, and low-dose metrazol to augment the terror. Once the tachyphylaxis sets in within the first hour, reignite the anguish with an concentrated intraperitoneal injection of the polyhalogenated biphenyl plastic toxins and megadose naloxazone.

After sufficient bricks have been shat by your now-trembling victim(s), bring them promptly down to Earth with a smooth infusion of high-dose haloperidol and tetrabenazine, to be quickly followed by the traumatic 6-hydroxydopamine, Substance P, and superoxide anions.

The sadistic conclusion would likely involve some kind of climactic escalation...perhaps a well-measured overdose of intraventricular phencyclidine+salvinorin+hyoscyamine, followed lastly by a full olfactory bulbectomy and partial frontal lobotomy, to make certain that no effort went to waste.
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the "partial frontal lobotomy" would probably relieve the victim of everything
 
apparently it seems there is a link with osteoporosis
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Forsrs?

increased incidence of pituitary adenoma or breast/prostate cancer
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That's unsurprising, given its penchant for warping sex steroid systems. I think prolactin also has some relevance to myelination processes, though I'm not sure what an excess of the hormone would entail for otherwise healthy human brain-sheaths.
 
There's not a clear connection with pituitary adenoma/cancers. I'll just paste the relevant part (PMID: 20455888 ):
Chronic effects of hyperprolactinaemia
Osteoporosis

Studies of people with prolactinoma have demonstrated that chronic hyperprolactinaemia is associated with reduced bone mineral density (BMD) and a 2-4.5 fold increased risk of osteoporotic fracture [36,37]. The degree of osteopaenia is related to hyperprolactinaemia duration, especially where the onset was during adolescence, rather than absolute prolactin concentration [38]; treatment of the prolactinoma improves BMD [39].

Longstanding gonadal axis suppression is the most important mechanism linking hyperprolactinaemia with reduced BMD [40] but prolactin may also have a direct inhibitory effect upon osteoblasts, at least in rats [41]. The molecular mechanisms underlying these direct effects are not fully understood but may involve activation of nuclear factor κ B ligand (RANKL), an important regulator of osteoclast differentiation and function [42].

Fractures occur 1.2 - 2.5 fold more frequently and at a younger age in people with SMI [43-46]. The underlying reason for this increase is multifactorial as risk factors for reduced BMD are common in people with SMI. Nevertheless, antipsychotic treatment probably contributes to this risk. A UK study found that hip fracture occurred 1.73 fold more commonly in people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia but 2.6 fold more commonly in those prescribed an antipsychotic [43]. Similarly a Dutch study found a 1.68 and 1.33 fold increased risk for hip fracture for current and past users of antipsychotic drugs respectively. FGAs but not SGAs were associated with increased fracture risk [46], possibly explained by a lower mean BMD in people receiving FGAs and risperidone compared with olanzapine [47,48].

Prolactinoma

An increased prevalence of prolactinoma has been reported in people receiving risperidone and haloperidol, but not ziprasidone, olanzapine, clozapine or quetiapine [49,50]. To what extent this reflects a true increase in incidence is unclear as these data are almost certainly subject to surveillance and reporting bias [51]; people receiving risperidone and haloperidol appear more likely to receive prolactin screening, more likely to obtain a diagnosis of hyperprolactinaemia and more likely to have pituitary imaging than people receiving other antipsychotics. When a tumour is then found, clinicians are more likely to report this because of its rarity.

There are a few case reports of enhanced prolactinoma growth in people treated with antipsychotics [52-54] but it is unclear whether this is related to treatment as prolactinoma growth rates are variable between individuals. While the human epidemiological data are of uncertain significance, D2 receptor blockade by antipsychotics in animals induces lactotroph proliferation and transgenic mice with D2 receptor deletions develop large prolactinomas [55]. While caution is needed in extrapolating these data to humans, there is a theoretical basis for concern and further vigilance is needed.

Cancer

Although a controversial area, recent human epidemiology and molecular biology findings suggest that increasing serum prolactin concentrations may be associated with human breast cancer, and possibly prostate cancer [56]. A detailed description of this debate is beyond this review’s scope and so the subsequent discussion focuses on studies of people with SMI and in particular studies of the effects of antipsychotics.

A recent meta-analysis of six studies found a 12% increased risk of breast cancer in people with schizophrenia compared with the general population [57]. While this study cannot prove causality or determine what aspect of schizophrenia conveys the risk, it was suggested that this may partly result from antipsychotic induced hyperprolactinaemia [57]. There are surprisingly few studies specifically examining the association between antipsychotics and cancer. A US study comparing 52,819 women who had received dopamine antagonists (both antipsychotics and anti-emetics) with 55,289 controls found a 16% increased risk of breast cancer in those who had received treatment [58]. Amongst women with prolonged treatment (>6 years), the risk was increased 2.4 fold. Although the power was limited, it is noteworthy that breast cancer risk was increased in those taking phenothiazines (e.g. chlorpromazine, perphenazine) but not butyrophenones (e.g. haloperidol), despite both classes increasing prolactin by a similar amount. A Danish study
of a population-based cohort of 25,264 antipsychotic users, however, found no increase in the risk of breast or prostate cancer [59]. Further research is needed to assess the extent, if any, to which antipsychotics contribute to the increase in breast cancer in women with SMI.
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Edit: Yeah I didn't get that either
melange said:
how is this "doubtful"?

you are destroying pleasure/reward zones, and totally reducing the persons intelligence as a whole
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you are destroying pleasure/reward zones, and totally reducing the persons intelligence as a whole
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In what way does this undermine the goal of maximum dysphoria? And in what way would making them morons for life and permanently fucking up their sole connection to anything other than the basest emotions post-drug treatment 'relieve the victim' of the preceding torture at all? I fail to follow your logic.

Perhaps your're groping at the archaic use of the lobotomy to relieve depressive states (an indication, by the way, for which it had tenuous support, at best)?

There's not a clear connection with pituitary adenoma/cancers.
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Sorry. Misread your post.
 
they cannot even comprehend the emotions duhhhh
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...no. That's just in the movies, brutha. Still - lol.

my point is this - after your "surgery" the person is left in a better feeling state
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Nopelol. Not what happens when you rip an isolated chunk out of the prefrontal cortex. Maybe removing the whole damn thing...but I doubt that even that degree of cerbral mutilation would leave somebody completely unable to experience emotion of any kind, no matter how base.

Either way, none of that addresses the acute effects of the drugs administered before the lobotomy, prompting me yet again to ask how such a procedure would eliminate past drug-induced suffering ("relieve the victim of everything"). To be clear, I definitely wasn't implying that you would administer all the treatments at once. Hence the indexicality of my terms: "after," "then," and "conclusion." Still confused.

Also, since when does intelligence have anything to do with the capacity to suffer from the pharmacological induction of unrelenting [pending half-life] misery? I seriously doubt that higher-order thought processes play any major role in the dysphoria induced by drugs that are well known for their additive propensity to dull the intellect. Apropos, we could consider the dog, whose experience of physical pain likely differs little from that of the human. Similarly, I would wager that a dog's experience of, say, a phencyclidine overdose, Substance P injections, or massive neural oxidative stress, while lacking in the existential import that would be typically impressed upon a more 'sophisticated' mind, would retain the essential horrid characteristics, especially once you consider the utterly debasing impact of severe torture of any kind (and especially torture of this sort) upon rational thought and the human mind as a whole .
 
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Anticholinergics would be good, maybe mixed with other unpelasant things. As long as you can provide supportive care, you'd be able to keep them alive yet fucked up and dysphoric. You could play some brutal games here when they're semi-lucid (ex, telling them that they've been imprisoned for years, instead of days. Maybe put the lights on a fast timer so it looks like days are flying by, and so even if they ever get out they'll be an old man, etc.

Also, how bout opiates while they're sleeping (start working them toward physical dependence w/out them getting high)? Forced addiction to opiates has been used as a form of torture historically - but usually when you want information out of them.

Kappa-opoid agonists are good ones, too.

Or, if you have a really demonic person to "interview" them, keep them on a psychedelic for long periods of time while your torturer interviews them and tries to create lasting phobias, personality disorders, or unnatural aversions/attractions. Sort of like reverse psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. This would work best if they didn't realize what was being done though.
 
IV MDMA every time they fall asleep :) AFter a couple days im sure theyd be completely psychotic.
 
I used to dream of getting revenge on my enemies by tying them down and giving them salvinorin-a via IV drip. Just enough to send them on a trip, without the passing out. The akathesia and dysphoria caused by the older anti-psychotics is totally miserable, as well. It happened to me when I was younger and raided my friends dads med cabinet. I took Haldol, and it was one of the worst feelings I've ever had.
 
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