• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion

    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: andyturbo

DXM / depression

B

berocca

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
67
Had an interesting scenario repeat itself recently in two completely separate environments. Basically I was in a couple of situations where I mentioned that I use DXM as an antidepressant and the third party in question mentioned that they'd come across this highly unusual scenario before. This means there's someone somewhat local to my vicinity in a similar situation to me and I'm hoping they post or at least browse here.

It appears I'm not alone in this - anyone else on here doing the same or aware of someone who is?

Disclaimer: I'm not recommending anyone else try this as there's no reputable data on the long term effects and perhaps even more importantly there are serious (i.e. people have died as a result of) interaction consequences with commonly prescribed antidepressants (e.g. SSRI's, SNRI's), some antihistamines and some other drugs plus a there's potential issues related to metabolisation/enzymes (inefficient ones, complete lack of or possible suppression of).
 
havent heard of DXM being used as a way to relieve depression. I guess it is possible though.

I should reiterate your disclaimer. DXM and SSRIs can cause some very serious complications in the way of serotonin syndrome. It is a potentially fatal.
 
What sort of dose are you using to gain anti depressant effects from DXM?

From what i have read NMDA antagonists have been used a fair bit in the research field of depression treatment although the tests i have read about have been using ketamine rather than DXM.
 
Hmm, will have to come back to this one. Methoxetamine has some really interesting anti-depressant properties but ever-so-slightly harder to get than DXM ;) It's also still pretty addictive when you're taking it regularly (in sub-dissociative doses). As noted, and I'm glad you mentioned it in the original post, taking DXM along with other anti-depressants is very dangerous!

What doses are you talking about, how regularly, are you on any other medications?
 
There have been a few trials of slow (i.e. over the space of about 40 minutes) intravenous infusion of ketamine as an antidepressant, with apparently quite promising results. Unlike traditional anti-depressants, the onset of anti-depressant effects has been in minutes or hours, rather than weeks, and a single dose of approximately 0.5 mg/kg bodyweight has been shown to have effects lasting days, or possibly even weeks, which is greatly extended with dosing repeated every few days. The (small number of relatively small) trials also seem to suggest that the magnitude of the effect, and the proportion of people who actually have a substantial response, is quite impressive compared to traditional antidepressants.
 
dxm feels kind of dirty and clouded and confusing for me but that could be because ive only had it as syrup
dxm also slows down time quite a bit for me so that would be frustrating for school/uni

mxe however raises my spirits
 
belarki said:
Hmm, will have to come back to this one. Methoxetamine has some really interesting anti-depressant properties but ever-so-slightly harder to get than DXM ;) It's also still pretty addictive when you're taking it regularly (in sub-dissociative doses). As noted, and I'm glad you mentioned it in the original post, taking DXM along with other anti-depressants is very dangerous!

What doses are you talking about, how regularly, are you on any other medications?
Click to expand...

I'm taking quite high (3rd plateau) doses slightly less often than once a week. I'm well aware antidepressants are typically prescribed to be taken in small doses every day but find it more manageable (and interesting) this way. I'm wary of both tolerance and side effects (read a couple of reports where people taking it daily for months at a time ended up with long term gastrointestinal issues - not from the DXM, but from the other stuff in the cough syrup they were using). Instead of trying to manage mild 'side-effects' on a day to day basis into a normal life (don't think its entirely a safe thing to do) I instead trade off a small time window where I'm completely incapacitated for 8 or so hours.

Been taking this dose (typically 10-13mg/kg) for close on 2 years now (adjusting dose slightly with time/weight loss). Taking it in syrup form as after some investigation it seems to be the only reasonable option I have.

Currently on no other medications. In the distant past I have (non-concurrently) been prescribed 2 different SSRI's, an SNRI, a tricyclic, an anti-psychotic and even a benzo. None of them had any particularly strong positive effect and what little effect there was was not sustained. It was whilst researching withdrawal effects of the last SSRI I was on I came across a mention of DXM working for someone way better than their prescribed drug so I figured I'd give it a shot (did _a lot_ more research on it first online though) and basically took a Shulgin-like approach to things and found that once I crossed over the sub-active threshold

a) it worked and continued to work - unlike previously prescribed drugs and
b) I actually enjoy the side effects - also unlike previously prescribed drugs (e.g. libido, weight, insomnia issues)

I'm aware of studies related to ketamine/depression and also aware of MXE - no personal experience with either substance and I haven't actively pursued them for a number of reasons. Although if they worked I think they'd be preferable simply from a duration perspective and I can't deny I'd also be interested to find out what the subjective differences were as well.

I do already have a solution that has personally improved my quality of life greatly, however my primary interest is to find out whether there are indeed others out there self-medicating, what their dosages are and any known or potential long term issues.

Ultimately it'd be great if others can safely benefit from it (or something derived from it) but there's too many unknowns at the moment to recommend it - the current ratio of DXM reports on Erowid under "Health problems" (140) vs "Health benefits" (6) means I could personally be an outlier of sorts and/or that there's a lot of foolish people out there...
 
When people say that "xyz" improves their depression what are they generally saying? Ive always been curious about that... is it that they suddenly find themselves not thinking as much or is it that they can suddenly concentrate again and report an elevated mood? All of the above?
 
^ I guess it can be a reduction in any of the symptoms, but usually mood because that's the main thing people associate with depression. Personally I never really considered anything to improve my depression unless it improved my mood. Things that helped with sleep/concentration/etc were good but I wouldn't have said 'it improved my depression'.
 
I don't know how it is for other people but my thoughts have no correlation to my mood, I can think "positively" or "negatively", or "realistically" and "ideally" and still feel the same. I think when someone says something helps with their depression it lifts their general mood, and changes their demeanor by an emotional change e.g positive lifestyle change from improved mood and joy from activities and new will to do things and blah blah blah.
It really depends on what "xyz" is, but things like concentration and insomnia aren't actually related to depression, you can have these symptoms without a low mood, which is essentially what depression is, although there are various subtypes of depression like bi-polar, melancholic depression, a-typical depression, catatonic depression, SAD depression, mild depression, etc.
The reason DXM has anti-depressant properties for me is that I get a change in my consciousness, a different perception of the world, and sometimes I get a break from my ego. It also acts as a reuptake inhibitor for serotonin and norepinephrine, and seeing as I assume I've got low levels of some neurotransmitters I know this boosts the level of serotonin in my head, which has some correlation to an elevated mood, well actually moments of elation.
I guess it's good to get away from yourself and your feelings if you're depressed, and to feel differently about life in general and have such an unusual stream of consciousness. I know I've broken down and wept like a baby on DXM before because I've felt open and vulnerable/emotional, but I've also had some excellent trips.
This is only speaking for myself and I can't talk for the OP, but I hope I've given you some insight nonetheless.
 
^ I take 'breaks' from my depression and stress as well; my choice of substance is opioids though (codeine in particular). However this break is only temporary and the feelings that were evaded come back all too quickly.

Berocca has already said he feels a prolonged lift in mood from his use of DXM; do you also feel the prolonged mood lift, DeathDomokun?
 
DeathDomokun said:
It really depends on what "xyz" is, but things like concentration and insomnia aren't actually related to depression, you can have these symptoms without a low mood, which is essentially what depression is, although there are various subtypes of depression like bi-polar, melancholic depression, a-typical depression, catatonic depression, SAD depression, mild depression, etc.
Click to expand...

I disagree. In my opinion depression is far more pervasive than just a low mood alone. Insomnia/hypersomnia, impaired concentration, poor appetite, loss of interest/enjoyment, suicidal ideation.. it's all part and parcel of the condition. Not everyone will have the same symptoms but I've never heard of someone with depression who just has a low mood and still functions completely normally. To me that isn't even depression, but perhaps it's just semantics :)

ps sorry of off-topic
 
I think it depends on how our feelings affect us. Some people are apathetic and try to go on a holiday..
I don't think I've felt a prolonged lift in my mood, but it's definitely given me euphoria and new outlooks on life, which feel profoundly amazing whilst experiencing them.
It has helped me and I know it's taken away depression at very low seconds [left overs from trips]. I can't talk about any permanent change in mood, although in the last 6 months I've had substantial changes in my mood, although I can't tell you how I used to feel 6 months ago nor my average mood/how I feel often/what a majority of my feelings even are, although there's definitely pain/misery causing suffering to my psyche, but that's another story.
I don't know how you haven't built up a massive tolerance within 3 years of weekly use, nor how it still effects you in such a magical way after so many high thirds. Not that anyone here advocates doing anything illegal ;) I know that smoking cannabis should always be done when taking DXM.
DXM does have antidepressant qualities, I don't know whether the short half-life affects the length of the nonselective reuptake qualities or how effective they are pharmacology speaking but if they're working for you why change? I've heard of MXE having very good anti-depressive properties and I've thought about trying some, although it seems unlikely right now.

Depression can trigger the onset of insomnia, as with hypersomnia. When I got hypersomnia sporadically although lingering, I was thankful for it because I could just lay in bed for a couple of days. The sleep helped lift my mood, and the primary act of laying down and sleeping altered my sense of time improving things further, and taking the edge of my feelings. Enough about me though, as for the other symptoms depression can trigger the onset of them, but it's possible to be depressed with a fairly normal sleep pattern, enough concentration to exist comfortably (you can also meditate, concentration is built up), they can still be hungry, and enjoy certain activities, as well as not being suicidal, all the while being very depressed.
You can also have periods of time with symptoms that pass.
What do you mean by function normally? There are plenty of people who have depression and do things with their time, who lead "good" lives, who still exist, people that can get food in their stomach while being apathetic about their existence.
To me it's about being able to function. Having to do things differently, external events impacting you differently, have opposing feelings and views about things, doesn't stop you from functioning, although I do think in many cases it inhibits "normality" and makes it harder to just do what everyone else does because you feel so much worse than everyone else. You have no desire to do something that they have a desire to do, you can still function in a brilliant way, just some of us don't value our time enough to do so, or want a way to escape their reality kill themselves. I don't think suicide is always an act stemming from depression though.
Define depression in whatever way you like, but I personally think it's over diagnosed and dislike people referring to a bit of pain and a few joyless days as depression. Depression is a long term commitment, and I fucking hate it.
I know this was off-topic, continue with your DXM thread
 
Define depression in whatever way you like, but I personally think it's over diagnosed and dislike people referring to a bit of pain and a few joyless days as depression. Depression is a long term commitment, and I fucking hate it.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that depression is over diagnosed, and I feel that antidepressants are over prescribed. Studies show that SSRIs only help with major depression, but many people suffering from moderate to mild depression are being prescribed these medications when other options would be better for treatment. I think this is probably a result of a big push to promote awareness of depression and hence an increase in people talking to their doctors about it; people with major depression but also many with mild and moderate depression. Doctors who aren't adequately trained or aware of how to treat differing severity of depression will often just prescribe an antidepressant with no advice given to the patient on lifestyle changes that could/should be made, diet changes, seeing a psychologist, etc...

From what I understand from your post, you only experience mood lift whilst in the DXM experience and then that slowly fades away as the effects decline? As opposed to a lift in depression that lasts a week or so? I do understand how the dissociative experience, like the psychedelic one, can change ways of thinking and open one's mind in such a way that depression might be altered, for better or for worse, long term.
 
Yes, that's how I'm affected by DXM. I don't get visuals from DXM though, although I've been in some intense loops. I think if I K-holed, or alternatively M-holed, I might be able to experience something profound and maybe impact my demeanor and improve emotional dysregulation.
I think it might just be me though because bi-polar is hereditary and has been passed down from my grandmother to some of her children and grandchildren, and chances are I've got some loose screws from my genes.
I think any change in perception, whether it be from dissociatives, psychedelics, deleriants, psychosis, or simply your physical/external reality, but most frequently being psychedelics in my opinion, can alter your whole perception and your whole ego, and experiencing out of body experiences and loosing your ego on dissociatives can also have an effect, although I think it's all very subjective, mostly being your state of mind and the way the drug interacts with your consciousness, which stems from your state of mind and ego mixing with wonderful, powerful, chemicals.
 
It is very subjective; with these drugs they can't be expected to reliably produce a state conducive to having profound, life altering experiences every time. As you said, state of mind plays a big part as well as the rest of the world around you.

The most profound and beneficial drug experience I had was on LSD. It was shortly after my best friend had killed himself and I was still in the stage of denial. It didn't seem real at all, and I had kept thinking that our plans were still all going to happen. Most people, including myself, would probably advise against taking psychedelics so soon after a trauma like that. But I took a high dose, perhaps out of self-destruction. As I peaked, the full reality of what had happened hit me and for the first time since it had happened, and for a long time, I cried. My grief and love for my friend were finally expressed physically through tears, and I knew that he was dead and gone.

I still am dealing with his death now. I have flash backs to the funeral. It feeds my depression and stress. But at that point in time I needed to grieve but had been unable to until that night on LSD by myself. It gave me the courage to be a pall bearer at his funeral, something that I had thought I couldn't handle.

On the other hand, I have had negative experiences with LSD that caused my anxiety levels to be increased for some time afterwards.

Sorry if this seems off topic, but I don't have that much experience with DXM as I don't particularly enjoy it as a drug; I have had three trips on it and only one was somewhat good. But LSD is a similar drug in that it can open you up to changing how your own mind works, how you perceive reality, and I have had more beneficial results from it then negative and I actually credit some of the best periods of my life, when I was depression free, as being due to positive and profound psychedelic experiences.
 
Oh well, it appears that the other person doesn't read Bluelight regularly (to be fair I myself mainly skim read bits of AusDD weekly and that's about it). If anyone is in the situation referred to in the original post, please reply here or PM me.

I don't mind that the thread meandered into a discussion on depression/dysphoria etc. etc. It is very subjective, trying to draw neat boxes around mood and the things relating to/affecting it doesn't work that well in practice (although it's exactly what the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) and similar do to create terms to clinically use and treat the different mental disorders).

I get where the discussion around 'pure mood' vs typically related symptoms and general ability to deal with life is going. You can certainly still get stuff done whilst depressed but I've found I'm mainly doing it to appease other people - primarily to make things simpler for myself whilst at the same time still feeling empty and worthless. Then there have been weeks where leaving the house once is a major achievement, even if it was only to check the mailbox.

To give a bit more background, ironically the main thing that kept me going in late teens/early 20's was going to nightclubs once or twice a week, usually alone and to the kind where the same people went every week and all wore black. I'd spend the rest of the week waiting for time to pass doing obsessive/compulsive computer related stuff (pre WWW era) or wandering around nowhere in particular endlessly flipping a tape with the Cure's Pornography album on one side and Faith on the other wallowing in self pity and wishing I'd never existed. Other times the only thing that kept me going was the pain I'd cause parents etc. by not being around anymore. Not exactly just a few joyless days.

Over the years I must admit I was surprised how quickly various GP's would jump to the prescribe a pill solution as a first move (rejected this as an option quite a number of times), sometimes it was in conjunction with a referral to a psychologist/psychiatrist but often not.

In case its useful, the only thing that made much difference to me personally prior to the DXM was consistent exercise, however overcoming the inertia of depression to actually a) start and then b) keep the momentum up was still a continual struggle and I'd lapsed early and often over the years in this.

Anyway despite last nights DXM venture ending on a rather down note I'm still feeling quite resilient. Have a feeling that I'm an unusual case and perhaps its not a viable approach for the vast majority of depressed people out there. I did already come to the same conclusion as mentioned elsewhere - it's currently working for me, so I'm not going to change it aside from trying to spread the time between doses out a little more.

More irony - some of the DXM experiences over the last couple of years have seemed so amazing they perhaps make up for the long period of depression but at the same time unhappy because I can't hand the actual experience to others to share it. I am grateful for sites such as Bluelight where we can at least share what we can so we can benefit others as well as benefit ourselves thanks to others.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top