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DXM as a potential anti-depressant

custard

custard

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
151
hello.

so i've done a fair amount of research and exploring on the net, and it seems like there are other folks who experience this too. for years i've suffered from chronic mild depression, and after trying what feels like everything (wilderness therapy, meditation, yoga, antidepressants, emotional support network, exercise, etc etc)... dxm (and k) has been the only thing that's made a significant difference and pretty much cured my depression.

for a couple of days after taking dxm, the 'afterglow' makes me feel completely like myself. i feel friendlier, more confident, funnier, sharper, more present, and i actually have an interest in the world and motivation to do the things i love. feels like it's changed my life.

of course i'm skeptical of this as a long term solution though.. there seems to be little research out there on long-term low-dose dxm use and its effects on the brain. but regardless i'm sure that long term use is going to damage me in one way or another. i am on the hunt for healthier versions of an NMDA antagonist to help my depression, or something similar to ketamine but cheaper, (have read things about magnesium, memantine and riluzole..) but for the time being.. i'm curious what combos/doses have worked for those of you out there who also find DXM to be an effective anti-depressant.

for the past 3 weeks or so i've been taken 450mgs (gelcaps) every 3 days. i know my tolerance has risen greatly so i worry i will have to take a higher dose or dose more frequently, which i don't really want to do. i know some people take very low doses daily (like 60mgs).. just curious what works best. taking lower doses frequently or higher doses less frequently. and what has a lower effect on tolerance. also not sure what is less damaging on the body/brain.

(and just so ya know, buproprion has helped me very mildly, and SSRIs have been ineffective for me.)
 
Sounds like you just need to be yourself, drugs like DXM will keep ya feeling good for a couple days or weeks but when you quit taking it shit could be worse for you then when you started. No one on this thread can tell you if its safe or not, there really is no solid research and researching on yourself is dangerous. Try to scout out other ways to get around depression, exercise, friends, music and keep calm. Most drugs that help depression can also make it work when not used correctly.
 
hi custard-
I've also found the anti-depressant effects following DXM like you have (and many others). It's really really great. But as you say, tolerance does build up and it's not a long-term solution. There's a member on this forum (Jamshyd) who has used ketamine consistently for depression, but I don't think that's what you're looking for either.

You might want to check out this thread, which popped up today: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/668818-Salvia-for-Depression-and-Anxiety

I also find that tripping on classical psychedelics in the wake/afterglow of a good Salvia experience usually results in a positive, productive experience. Maybe the same rule applies to DXM afterglows, I'm not sure.

One thing I will say is, steer clear of methoxetamine.
 
Using a dissociative everyday is very dangerous and could lead to a delirious life, we cannot recommend another drug in this forum but like rythm spring said classic psychedelics can be positive, when used 2-4 times a year..

It sounds like what the OP is proposing could lead to heavy addiction, and may cure depression while your using but most harder drugs will... Doesn't mean its going to fix your life.

You must appreciate the fine things in life and the fact you alive to type this post!

Drugs cannot CURE depression they can only guide you, you need to work out your problems with yourself and live a healthy life. I come from a life of depression and drug abuse and it took about 5 years to realize all the drugs and " Medicines " were doing was keeping me from working out my true problems which is not easy. But successful!
 
rhythmspring, thanks. I took a look at that thread. i've only tried salvia once and it was pretty weird.. didn't experience any sort of euphoria or antidepressant effects, and from what my friends have told me of their salvia trips i am skeptical. but it doesn't hurt to experiment. dissociatives (ketamine/DXM) have been the only drug that's given me an afterglow and kicked my depression in the ass. i wouldn't mind using k as well.. but it tends to be rather pricey. looking for others in the same boat though. do you think Jamshyd would mind if i PM'd him/her? also curious, why do you say steer clear of MXE? I've heard good things about it in terms of its dissociative/anti-depressant effects. the recent ban seems to be making it near impossible to obtain anyway though.

earthbounded: i've tried friends, music, exercise - the whole works - for years. i'm fairly certain that my depression is a chemical imbalance, and this is not enough for me to be free of it. i agree that using DXM 2X a week is not a good long term solution. but it's allowed me to be completely myself and be excited about life for the first time in years, so i feel that's worth exploring further. i also know that drugs cannot "cure" depression, but they can certainly help get the wheels turning. i spent last summer in a wilderness therapy program and faced my demons; did a lot of hard work and personal/spiritual growth, which has changed my life significantly. yet my depression lingers, even when all my needs are met. hopefully i can find an alternative to DXM in the future. i know this won't work forever.
 
See a psychiatrist?

You're feeling good for a few days after DXM because you're still feeling the effects of the drug. It's relieving the symptoms of your depression, but isn't doing anything to the cause. Worse yet you could be putting yourself back further in terms of finding a viable solution to your depressive feelings, both in terms of time and your neurochemical state. Stop taking DXM consistently or at all and first look at more natural ways to make yourself feel better. Pay close attention to your diet, exercise regularly, set goals for each day and follow through with them the best you can. Interact with other people, whether it is friends or family or at the workplace.

DXM is a quick fix. But it's a tool just as are the vast majority of psychedelic compounds, one that does not have any sort of therapeutic guidelines. Rebound depression after chronic DXM use is no fun either, so tread carefully.

edit: I see you mentioned trying many of the suggestions I listed above. That they have not worked does not mean they will not work. If your depression is as you say it is, it will not be easy to conquer. Your brain is wired and reinforced by your environment and your actions just as much as what chemicals you put in it (citation needed). Work must be put in over time, and a solution most likely will not come from one source. Keep trying. A chemical imbalance does not mean only a chemical can fix it.
 
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custard said:
earthbounded: i've tried friends, music, exercise - the whole works - for years. i'm fairly certain that my depression is a chemical imbalance, and this is not enough for me to be free of it. i agree that using DXM 2X a week is not a good long term solution. but it's allowed me to be completely myself and be excited about life for the first time in years, so i feel that's worth exploring further. i also know that drugs cannot "cure" depression, but they can certainly help get the wheels turning. i spent last summer in a wilderness therapy program and faced my demons; did a lot of hard work and personal/spiritual growth, which has changed my life significantly. yet my depression lingers, even when all my needs are met. hopefully i can find an alternative to DXM in the future. i know this won't work forever.
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I feel ya, I defiantly am not looking down on you just warning you I have been down the self medicating path and it really hurt me the best thing about Blue Light is being able to share your experience and hope others can learn from it, this one dude kept shit super real with me and it made sense, if you have a chemical in balance let a doctor take care of it. If you proceed to take DXM that is most likely a sign of a substance abuse problem. Staying sober will better your life than constant DXM that is plain LUDACRIS, even a Benzo regiment is safer and thats still addicting. Never forget we are all open to substance abuse problems dont deny it to yourself. Good luck, maybe try Kratom or LSA in a super fucked up way they took me out of depression and chemical dependency ( I still do not condone any chemical use at a point your at but if you must research those). Do proper research dont let urself go down homie, keep your head above water.


Love
 
A benzo regimen is not safer, of course that is not really the point and I agree that none of these self-medications are a good idea. Been there, done that. I took benzo's for a while - used them, not abused them, but I got physically dependent on them and when I went to a clinic to get off them, all the issues came back (maybe more), people don't realize how heavy benzo dependency is (people who are experienced with both addictions regularly say that benzo's are even heavier than opiates).

I am really not interested in going on an SSRI for my symptoms but instead I have suggested mirtazapine with my psychiatrist.

I suggest you explore more responsible options, if there are things you don't want to take (just like that is true for me) explain that and see what can be discussed. Don't get patronized and pushed onto some medication... read a lot on the subject of dysthemic issues like you seem to be having (by the way my reason for the meds I proposed are quite different so let us not compare situations or cases like that) and what approaches are usually taken.
Then if you get help communicate clearly how you are not giving up self-determination so to speak.
 
Solipsis said:
A benzo regimen is not safer
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Mod I am saying that it is 'safer' because it can be prescribed and monitored by a doctor and they are manufactured with the highest regulations, I should have been more clear. I would say black market benzos like phenazepam are no more safe than DXM.

DXM is in no way an anti depressant or chemical balancer. It is used to get high it is an intoxicant or used for a cough. Therefore my stance still stands.

A doctor monitored SSRI or Benzo will be safer and physciatric help will go along way.
I am not recommending a Benzo regiment, I was simply stating self medicated DXM will be more dangerous with long term use, because usually this is taken in the form of way to much cough syrup or black market powder. neither of which have ever been studied for depression on a large scale.

I have too experienced Benzo and opiate withdrawal in no way shape or form is an opiate easier to withdraw from?

OP I highly recommend you seek professional care and advice.
 
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EarthBounded said:
DXM is in no way an anti depressant or chemical balancer.
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I disagree on the "in no way" part. Ketamine has *numerous* papers on its anti-depressant properties. MXE has been speculated to have some anti-depressant properties. I see nothing on DXM, but anecdotally DXM seemed to me much the same as the other two: you might get a nice mood lift from it that lasts for several days.

So far, however, I haven't seen anything indicating any dissociative is a safe long-term-usage anti-depressant. Actually quite the opposite, many reports of people screwing themselves up with long-term heavy usage. However, medically, a few places I think are using ketamine for very severe emergency anti-depressant actions (eg suicidal patients). (Nothing more though). The 60mg-a-day user gave me some interesting food for thought of course. It will be interesting to see how some of the non-hallucinogenic NMDA antagonists under study (eg GLYX-13, Lanicemine) or others that come up fare in the future.
 
custard said:
of course i'm skeptical of this as a long term solution though.. there seems to be little research out there on long-term low-dose dxm use and its effects on the brain.
Click to expand...

Using DXM with any regularity, in my opinion, will definitely have irreversible long-term psychological / cognitive effects. This could be seen as permanent damage, or simply therapeutic effect, depending on whether it helps or inhibits you.

You may find this thread of interest.

Personally, I would never feel comfortable dosing DXM regularly for any reason, because I usually notice distinct memory problems for a few days after taking DXM.
 
DXM has SSRI efficacy if I remember correctly, so that I'm sure contributes somewhat to the antidepressant effect. Wouldn't ever call it a chemical balancer though.
 
custard OP, Read this.

It is from this thread from lars90
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...has-caused-me-to-lose-the-desire-to-use-speed

lars90 quote-"I remember reading a story about a guy who took dxm and it made him stop with all the other drugs he did. But he got terribly addicted to dxm wasn't and still Isn't able to stop. He updates his thread ever few months. He he has 2 children and a wonderfully loving wife. But he just can't stop. Horrible story be carefull."
 
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I realize that using DXM on a regular basis is not healthy and will cause cognitive damage in the long run. Like I said in my first post, I'm looking for another NMDA antagonist that will have the same anti-depressant benefits without the damage. From the research I've done, (and the numerous studies that have been done on ketamine as an anti-depressant) - even ketamine seems to be much safer than DXM in terms of neurological damage. I'm hoping that in the future I will have enough money to at least substitute some of my DXM use with ketamine, which will at least be a step in the right direction.

But again like I said in my OP, I would much prefer a natural alternative that has the "afterglow" effects without the high or the damage. If anyone knows of any other NMDA antagonists I would gladly appreciate the information. Also, a couple of you have mentioned that DXM is a powerful SNRI. While I don't disagree with this, I'm confused why DXM and ketamine have had such strong anti-depressant effects for me (both being NMDA antagonists), while the buproprion I've been taking for a year now, which is an SNRI, has had nowhere near the same effect as the dissociatives. I also tried Cymbalta in the past, (an SSRI) which only worsened my insomnia, made me hungry all the time, and gave me no mood change whatsoever. So that's what leads me to believe it's the NMDA antagonist action that is making the difference here. It could of course be more complex than that though.

A couple of you also mentioned seeing a psychiatrist as a better way to deal with this. Trust me, I have seen many. I also spent 3 months in the desert last summer in intensive wilderness therapy, so don't assume that I haven't done any self-exploration. There's no better way to face your demons than to be stuck with yourself in the middle of nowhere with no physical or psychological escape route. In terms of psychiatrists.. I gotta say I don't trust most of them. The doc who put me on buproprion was a good guy. But the doc who prescribed me Cymbalta only made things worse for me. He also prescribed me ambien (which is very similar to a benzo in its action), which caused me to sleepwalk in the middle of the night (which I had NO memory of), and severely worsened my insomnia and anxiety. So I wouldn't be so quick to say psychiatrists are the best bet. A lot of them don't have much care for their patients and will just toss dangerous medications at you without getting to know you until they feel you are 'fixed'.

Anyway, getting back to the main point. While I am currently seeing a therapist regularily and am on the lookout for a good psychiatrist, as well as seeking healthy relationships, eating healthy food, doing yoga and meditation... I do still feel that medication is something that can help me. I am on the lookout for safer NMDA antagonists. Does anyone know anything about memantine or riluzole? electrodevo, you mentioned the non-hallucinogenic NMDA antagonists GLYX-13 and Lanicemine. Could you tell me more about those?
 
custard said:
electrodevo, you mentioned the non-hallucinogenic NMDA antagonists GLYX-13 and Lanicemine. Could you tell me more about those?
Click to expand...

These are a couple of the more prominent non-hallucinogenic NMDA antagonists that I've seen in articles exploring the "surprise" that ketmaine was a possible anti-depressant, like this NPR article and others in places like The Atlantic, Time, etc.

GLYX-13 is currently in Phase II trials, that means it's a *long* way from the public. It may not work out. The media will tout many "miracle cure" drugs that later fail larger scale trials.

At the present time, I know of *no* proven safe long-term usage NMDA antagonist, which is unfortunate. (Ketamine oddly enough still seems the "safest", but again as an emergency type drug only.)

However, since there has been enough publicity on what ketamine has done, it may be worth mentioning your DXM usage, and your past history to a doctor. In light of these articles, DXM as an "antidepressant" IMHO is not a "crazy thought". Generally speaking, the rare off-label usage of ketamine is used for what they call "treatment resistant depression". With this, there may be other options available that none of us here are aware of. (I'm not a doctor, I merely am a news junkie. :) )
 
custard said:
I'm looking for another NMDA antagonist that will have the same anti-depressant benefits without the damage.
Click to expand...

If ketamine worked, I guess you could try MXE? I'd be wary, however - while it does have a powerful antidepressant effect during the high itself, in my experience it sometimes had depressing after-effects. Other people report that MXE gives them an afterglow, so it could be worthy of experimentation.
 
electrodevo, thanks for the links. i'm also a research junkie, especially when it comes to topics that could potentially change my life. it does seem like there's a few healthier NMDA antagonists out there that are being studied.. but yeah who knows how long it could be before any of these are approved? right now i'm just trying to find a doctor who's open minded enough to even consider going down this road or possibly prescribing a small amount of ketamine. the majority of the ones i've encountered are very by-the-book so it'll be a tricky hunt.

theapplecore, yeah i've definitely heard and read a lot about MXE. It's something I would love to try because from what I hear it sounds quite similar to ketamine in its effects/afterglow, except much more financially feasible. Ketamine binges can leave me feeling a bit depressed for the next day or two, but low doses i find have the same anti-depressant effect for me as DXM. The problem with MXE is that it quite recently got banned and I've had a very hard time finding any way of obtaining it online from a legit vendor. I've also heard of other dissociative RCs like N-ethyl-ketamine and K-Mex or Magic-Mex, but I've read very mixed reviews on these so am hesitant. Any info you have would be much appreciated tho.

(Also I don't know the forum rules about discussing things like these publicly. I'd be happy to talk to either of you about this in PM if you like. I know drugs-forum.com is strict about this, not sure about bluelite.)

Also.. a question about dosage. My tolerance has currently gotten high enough that I'm taking about 450-500mg of DXM every other day. (which kinda worries me). It gives me a mild buzz/high and then the afterglow lasts for 24-48 hours or so. I've also considered taking 225-250mg a day instead, and see if that works for me. Anyone know if it's healthier/better for tolerance to take low doses daily or higher doses less often?

Opiumoftheworld, I'd take a look at this if it's your first time with DXM: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/
 
DXM has saved my life a couple times, when the choice was a loaded nine to my right and a bottle of cough syrup to my left. When I take a high dose it seems to maintain a residual anti-depressent effect for a week or so afterwards. I have pretty severe depressive episodes that at times have been treatment resistent and have let to various suicidal actions in the past.

In recent years I have found MXE to be a very useful anti-D, perhaps the best I have ever seen in terms of efficacy vs. side effects. I take it about twice a month. I also take SSRIs and go to a psychologist, so dissociatives are far from my only support against depression. They do seem to help a lot when combined with various other lifestyle changes and psychological aids.

The last year has been the least depressed in my life. I have been employing a wide range of tools such as the aforementioned drugs, lots of physical exercise and contact with friends, good sex, and the book I Am That.
 
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