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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

Drummond's international grey

Ismene said:
It would've been great if the immigrants had brought a culture of unionism with them - that might have driven up everyones wages. Instead we're on a race to the bottom, even the Polish are terrified of what the Romanians will work for.
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British unions have actually been rejuvenated due to recent waves of immigration. Much like the Church of England.

Granted, it'll actually do fuck all to improve labour conditions, but what's changed?
 
parttime crackhead said:
Well, that does seem to be the case doesn't it?
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I dunno - I think if they're born there they deserve more of it than any other cunt. Don't you?

And that's even if you take into account that they probably couldn't have got the oil out themselves because they didn't have the technology. I STILL think they deserved more of the wealth than western corporations did simply by living there for a thousand years.
 
Ismene said:
Isn't the problem that if enough of them come then it will become as fucking wank here as the place they came from? Why would an employer want to increase the minimum wage to a living wage when you've got 250,000 east europeans coming every year willing to work for tuppence-ha'penny?
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Firstly we're back to the "... yeah but what if..." stuff which is basically pointless. What if we all contract uberAIDS tomorrow and drop dead? What if the country tips over and we all drown next week? What if the sky falls in? It's moronic.

Secondly we are supposed to have a minimum wage. Anybody paying less than minimum wage is breaking the law. Minimum wage is pitiful and should be significantly raised (heard recently it would actually be about a tenner or so higher than it actually is if it had kept in line with inflation - somebody is creaming off that money and it ain't immigrants any more than it is British born employees) but that is again not the fault of immigrants it is the fault of those who will happily exploit anybody whatever country they happen to have been born into.

Again, you are blaming the victims not the perpetrators.
 
Ismene said:
I dunno - I think if they're born there they deserve more of it than any other cunt. Don't you?

And that's even if you take into account that they probably couldn't have got the oil out themselves because they didn't have the technology. I STILL think they deserved more of the wealth than western corporations did simply by living there for a thousand years.
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No. Its not a question of whether western corporations or the Ogoni deserve more. It should be a question of equal distribution of wealth the world over.

Economic wealth equals power. If your logic is a simplistic 'you get what comes with where you are born' then I assume you'd be cool with a world ruled by Sharia law should a fundamental Islamic ruled country suddenly come across the world's richest known reserves?

Of course you fucking wouldn't. So stop being so petty nationalist.
 
Ismene: it took the English 200 years fighting for an existence that consisted of more than work. All that's being pissed away and dismantled with the help of endless cheap labour.
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Sorry to backtrack but just noticed this again: What fighting is this? i'm racking my brain trying to think of any of our military adventures that were fought in the interest of most of the people who live here, except when that interest accidentally coincided with the interest of the ruling class (and even then i can still only think of one maybe)
 
Shambles said:
Firstly we're back to the "... yeah but what if..." stuff which is basically pointless.
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Well there's 250,000 coming every year and the immigrant birth rate is massively higher so it's not going to take forever is it. We'll all be working like the Romanians - 20 hours a day and pay the mill owner for permission to come to work.

I can't see the minimum wage lasting long now either - they're already making the unemployed work for their dole so the idea of the minimum wage is being dismantled already.
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
No. Its not a question of whether western corporations or the Ogoni deserve more. It should be a question of equal distribution of wealth the world over.
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Maybe, but while we're waiting for equal distribution of wealth worldwide I'd give the ogoni a little simply for being born there. Call it "nationalistic" if you like.
 
Ismene said:
Tolpuddle martyrs, campaign for an 8 hour day, union movement etc
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Aaaah, sorry, i mistook your use of the word english(which was in fact the proper one) :) - that's the good fight to be sure, but don't neglect the far bigger efforts collectively of socialists around the world from various countries; i personally lean more towards spanish/french traditions which are more anarchist/left libertarian; british socialism came to be more linked with 'authoritarian socialism' (probably cos marx lived here) and we know how that turned out. Not to mention the wobblies (IWW) in america, who did more for socialism in more recent time, though it's been editied out of history for most people. Anyway, socialism is an international movement of workers of the world, so no country gets to claim it their own.

I tend to agree with bob crow (PBUH) - he was sceptical about mass immigration on workers' rights grounds ('theirs' and 'ours'), but always managed to sound compassionate with it (when i heard him). I also agree with him on no2EU - being anti the bankers-run neoliberal EU is naturally a left wing policy (although you'd be forgiven for thinking the opposite if you follow the media)
 
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Ismene said:
Well there's 250,000 coming every year and the immigrant birth rate is massively higher so it's not going to take forever is it. We'll all be working like the Romanians - 20 hours a day and pay the mill owner for permission to come to work.
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I honestly don't know if the immigrant birth rate is massively higher. I suspect it would largely depend on which immigrants you're referring to. Our population is actually going backwards without it though and that's not so great either. Who do you expect to be funding your pension and the like if there aren't enough people working to cover the costs? If any of these hysterical fears you speak of had ever actually happened or showed any sign of being likely to happen you might have a point but they never have and I strongly suspect never will. It's fear of change combined with blaming the wrong people. What on Earth has Tory policy of making people work for nothing got to do with any immigrant? Did they decide on that policy? Idiots voting for arseholes brought us that policy. The very type of policy that UKIP are incredibly keen on - even more so than the bloody Tories. It's divide and rule and you are swallowing it hook, line and sinker.
 
Was it someone on here mentioned how you can deface your ukip leaflets and then send them freepost back to ukip so they have to pay for it? (the address is on the leaflet) - or cut them into a hundred pieces sent separately, or in a box with a brick, etc...

(bears a re-mention i reckon)
 
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Yeah i was thinking the same with the tory leaflet my mum kindly defaced last time she was round (scary how much he looks like the fuhrer at nurmeberg with a little penwork on their latest leaflet)

...couldn't find it on the interweb but

2475887551_48dbd7f11e.jpg


sorry bill (it's sort of art...)
 
Vurtual said:
Yeah i was thinking the same with the tory leaflet my mum kindly defaced last time she was round (scary how much he looks like the fuhrer at nurmeberg with a little penwork on their latest leaflet)

...couldn't find it on the interweb but

2475887551_48dbd7f11e.jpg



sorry bill (it's sort of art...)
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That is uncanny
 
That's more than enough reasons for me... (shudder)

then there's how ukip/farage are establishment bankers saying they'll save us from the establishment by being even more establishmenty
 
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