Drugs and Family

[gwencooper]

I just moved in with my mother. My sister told her about the dope and the crack and the pills and my mother was like "whatever". Think she finally knows my sis is, in this case, correct, but is usually a pathological liar, especially in regards to me.

She is short, obese, terrible skin and holds a grudge like toddler holds a teddy bear . I am tall, an actress, considered "beautiful;", nice skin (except my left arm is 17 times darker than my right due to driving) and I ignore her because I don't like her and it drives my sister INSANE...l.

 

[Mercc96]

do you mean safety reasons in that she will know what you're on in case you overdose and she has try to resuscitate you or call an ambulance??

Yeah, so she knows that if I am stumbling about or not breathing to call an ambulance or something. I've abit of a self destructive streak and sometimes do go over the top although I have not yet had a proper overdose 'touch wood' the closest I have come to that was with pods and methadone- not at the same time.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

I'm surprised that my parents never caught on to me smoking weed when I still lived at home - I did it regularly for the last 3-4 years I lived there, mostly every day during the last two, and I had an older sibling who also smoked and had been caught often (so they were sort of aware of what it smells like, how stoned people look etc). My parents had told me off for smoking cigarettes before and I'd told them I quit.

Less than a month before I was set to move out, my mom came home early one day while I was smoking a spliff on the balcony, and confronted me, rather pissed off. She asked me why I'd been lying to them, to which I replied that I didn't - "You've only ever asked me if I smoke cigarettes. I told you, I quit." After a dumbfounded stare and stuttering I told her I was smoking weed. She tried to tell me off very sternly, but I laughed it off, saying it was a bit too late to tell me to quit now - I'd been doing it for years, and soon I'd be living on my own.
I had a talk with both my parents later that night and though they initially tried to push me into answering the age-old question "Why do you NEED to get high? What are you running away from?" but gave up pretty soon. We agreed to disagree on the ethics of my decision, but I felt relieved that their greatest concern was what possible consequences might flow from violating the law (being arrested, not getting into schools/jobs/whatever) - at least they'd done their research and didn't think weed was the god damn devil.

I haven't openly talked to them about my use of other drugs but I'm pretty sure they know from the kind of company I keep, the decor of my house, and my love of psytrance and 60's acid rock that I at least take psychedelics, and I'm pretty comfortable with them knowing that - they don't seem too worried either. They also know I've had to take benzodiazepines on a few occasions for mental issues, but that's not really "drug use" in the same way.

I'm sure if my parents knew the full extent of it they'd be worried sick, but they seem far less judgmental than I would have thought, as they're very conservative. I don't like lying to them, but I don't want to cause them unnecessary grief either. After all, not everything I do is their business, and they have nothing to worry about. Maybe some time later I'll talk to them about it, but right now I don't really feel comfortable telling them about the frequency and variety of my drug use.

 

[Seyer]

Merged.

 

[helium-4]

I'll say it again, the most important thing to do with a child who hasn't started to use drugs is talk to them about what they know. Let them speak. For one this allows yourself to understand where his/her heads at, but also helps let them know that you are a friend, not some authority figure trying to push off their own values on them. You can decide how you want to approach giving them advice based on what they say. Most importantly you want to keep up an attitude of being a friend, someone they can come to when they have questions, or possibly curious about using drugs.

 

[Tude]

Cloudy, I hadn't thought about asking HIM what he knows lol! Thanks.

Meowkitty, thanks. I do want to leave the door open for questions. I believe it's an ongoing discussion, not a one-off.

DoomMood, you're absolutely right. It IS a giant gamble. I'll make sure to bring that up.

Lds324, you've given me something to think about as far as the emails go. Thanks.

Pagey, thanks, the "drugs are bad" approach is precisely what I'm trying to avoid. You make a good point, if I tell him drugs feel good but it might come back and bite you, he'll take me seriously.

PilltoChill, I guess emails should be a later line of defense then lol. Thanks.

Swimmingdancer, thanks. I guess I'll tell him about drugs little by little. It makes me feel better that I don't have to go all-out right away! Whew!

Cloudy, thanks again. I do want him to know I'm trying to be a friend. I want him to be able to talk to me about anything, not just drugs. I haven't always been a good sister, but it's time to change that.

 

[verso]

I'm not sure how you should go about approaching the subject, but I like a lot of the ideas that others have already posted.

If I were in your shoes, knowing that I have no knowledge or first-hand experience with drugs myself, I would simply point him in the right direction, maybe suggest that he poke around on some type of a website or forum that disseminates truly solid information, the facts, a website or forum that emphasizes harm reduction, maybe a website or forum that you yourself are already a member of and have found helpful.

 

[Pill2Chill]

However I DO NOT agree with the idea that the harm reduction approach increases the likelihood of drug use.

It's very important to offer HR IF someone is going to be doing drugs anyway.

That's a pretty contradiction, and pretty much what was in my post. Do you really think a person who isn't interested in drugs at all would care about harm reduction enough not to feel like he's being "schooled"?

HR shouldn't even be brought up if the person never used drugs. I really think it might increase the chance of trying drugs for the first time. If his older sister comes have a talk about drugs and starts saying "if you should use 'drug A', you shouldn't use more than x mg and drink 0.5l water/hr", what do you reckon he will be thinking? 'Oh, I can do that drug up to that amount with those precautions and be good.'
I'm oversimplifying, but it's definitely a risk that can help him cross boundaries..

And yes, of course harm reduction should be practiced by users, but we're talking about a person who doesn't use drugs at all. How useful is it to him as a non-user? What good influence might it have to ask him to read trip reports/harm reduction as long as he's not using? It's not bad to know this stuff, but it often brings along curiousity, ime the #1 reason why people start using drugs.

What Cloudy said makes alot of sense. Listening can be a good idea. How is your relationship? I'm guessing it's good? Is there any chance he might take it as an insult, or a lack of trust if you approach the subject?

The main goal at this point is learning what his point of view is. After that there might be other subjects to discuss.

 

[Pill2Chill]

My parents are divorced. Both in a new relationship. Both 'camps' (lol) are against all forms of drug use. But weed & my meds are tolerated (though not approved). My father is alot less severe when it comes to drugs. He said he wouldn't mind me using coke or w/e once in a while as long as I lead a productive life. I was never able to tell either of them about drug use though. Because that would (and still will) always lead to conflict. I left my pc unlocked once while showering. I was a member on another drugs forum then. My mother went to my browser history, read that entirely + my whole skype chatlogs. That was the suckiest day ever. My mother kicked me out and I wasn't allowed to come back for 2 months. (Note that my mother raised me, I didn't have contact with my father for a long time so I concider my mother's place "home".) Now I am doing everything (except weed, and my meds) behind their backs again, because if I don't I'll upset them and have to deal with all that stuff again. They won't understand I'm not going to stop unless I want to, or feel like it would be best. I'm shutting up about it because it only causes more problems.

When I imagine myself having children I imagine myself having quit all drugs, save maybe a few LSD trips/year. (without the kids knowing, while they're not around obviously) I imagine being an understanding dad, with whom no subject is taboo. I'll make damn sure they know I'm not gonna crucify them if I catch them smoking a joint. If that would happen, I would insist on moderation from the beginning. (Honestly, I'd have been quite happy if my father had said that from the beginning instead of speaking about drugs the same way they do in the media) If they ever make the jump to hard-drugs I'd also be speaking mostly of moderation (moreso than with weed), but I'd try to keep them away (by a good old fashion warning, which will have alot more effect coming from a person who allows some drugs) from speed, opiates & benzos. Should my children overstep their bounds I might not be able to do much. Another thing I'll make sure of is that they KNOW it's their choice and responsibility because I know, they can walk around the corner and do whatever they want if they feel they need to hide it. I imagine myself being a walking talking harm reduction book when I'm older, who can give good advice. I will never tell them about the stupid shit I did until they're old enough or god forbid are starting to get addicted. If they've been smoking weed for a good while with no intent to stop I might join them sometimes. I'm not a hypocrite.. But I would never tell them I did drugs until I have to. That's like an open invitation.

I would also be sure to tell them that if they're sensing they are having problems with addiction, they can tell me that too without me going loco. I will give advice, and offer help, tell them my experiences. I think that's what I would've wanted, and I really think it would've been in my best interest. I don't blame anyone ofcourse, my mother smoked 1 joint @age 43 and my father never used drugs, except alcohol. I just feel being able to be open without a shit-storm is VERY important for honesty.

-if it has spelling/grammar errors I wrote this fast cause I gtg. Will edit later.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

the most important thing to do with a child who hasn't started to use drugs is talk to them about what they know. Let them speak. For one this allows yourself to understand where his/her heads at, but also helps let them know that you are a friend, not some authority figure trying to push off their own values on them. You can decide how you want to approach giving them advice based on what they say. Most importantly you want to keep up an attitude of being a friend, someone they can come to when they have questions, or possibly curious about using drugs.

This is excellent advice. I meant to say that, about basing the conversation off what he says, sorry if it wasn't more clear Cloudy said it well.

This is a great thread. Hopefully it can be helpful for anyone considering talking about drugs with a child/sibling/etc.

 

[verso]

....but it often brings along curiousity, ime the #1 reason why people start using drugs.

You don't really believe that, do you?

I'm curious about lots of things, and I pursue only a fraction of a percent of those things.

It's not mere curiosity that does it, it's something else, and we can talk at great length about what that "something else" is, but the bottom line is this: if her brother has that "something else," and whether he does or not we don't know, then he'll pursue drugs in one of two ways: the right way or the wrong way.

Let me put it to you like this, I know lots of people who are curious about... I don't know... computers. I only know a handful of people who are curious enough about computers to open them up, take them apart, etc. (It's actually a lot more common now, I guess.) If I throw a computer manual (or some other "how to" book or whatever) into the hands of everyone I know, no one will be put at any disadvantage because of it, and not everyone will go home and start opening up computers. In fact, it will probably bore the living hell out of those people who originally thought that they might be curious about computers... and they'll just forget the whole thing. Those few who are interested enough will find the information helpful, and will soon realize that the hammer in their hands has no place around or near a computer. lol

 

[helium-4]

If he clearly shows no interest in drugs there isn't much of a point trying to persuade him into researching drugs. Some individuals don't use drugs with out knowning the positives or negatives about them. Some people just don't have any interest in them. Going to far into a discussion about drugs could get him curious about wanting to try them, or it could put him off from them. You don't know how he will react to you trying to get into a deep discussion about them. W'hen asking him about them, you are getting him to tell you obviously what he knows, and how he feels about them. If he shows interest in them, then harm reduction is a positive thing to introduce, but if he straight up has no interest in them, you don't need to introduce to much information about drugs to begin with. However just showing that you are there for him and letting him express what he knows/how he feels could let him know that if he has any questions about drugs in the future he should go to you first. 12 is still pretty young and most drug users don't start using that early, so no need to get to deep into discussing them if it's not that huge of a concern that he will use. Of course there are users who start that early (I started when I was 13), but that certainly isn't the majority of users. Based on my personal experience/my friends, the majority didn't start using drugs until 12 grade or right before college (smoking weed, alcohol most started 10th-11th).

 

[verso]

^ I wouldn't try persuading him into reading about/researching drugs, but I would still let him know where to go for that information...

 

[helium-4]

Of course, it is important for him to have the resources at his finger tips, but there isn't much of a need (and could have the opposite results than desire) to go to much into discussing drugs if he shows no interest what so ever. I know some kids if asked what they think about drugs will just respond saying they haven't any interest in trying them, with that being the end of it. Yeah they could be lying, so having the resources known could be positive.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

However I DO NOT agree with the idea that the harm reduction approach increases the likelihood of drug use.

It's very important to offer HR IF someone is going to be doing drugs anyway.

That's a pretty contradiction, and pretty much what was in my post. Do you really think a person who isn't interested in drugs at all would care about harm reduction enough not to feel like he's being "schooled"?

HR shouldn't even be brought up if the person never used drugs. I really think it might increase the chance of trying drugs for the first time. If his older sister comes have a talk about drugs and starts saying "if you should use 'drug A', you shouldn't use more than x mg and drink 0.5l water/hr", what do you reckon he will be thinking? 'Oh, I can do that drug up to that amount with those precautions and be good.'
I'm oversimplifying, but it's definitely a risk that can help him cross boundaries..

And yes, of course harm reduction should be practiced by users, but we're talking about a person who doesn't use drugs at all. How useful is it to him as a non-user? What good influence might it have to ask him to read trip reports/harm reduction as long as he's not using? It's not bad to know this stuff, but it often brings along curiousity, ime the #1 reason why people start using drugs.

How is that a contradiction? I was just saying that I do not believe HR encourages/increases drug use. I was also saying it is not important/necessary to offer detailed HR if someone isn't even using drugs or isn't likely to use them in the near future, but that it's very important to give it if you think they are using drugs or are going to. And I was also saying that Bluelight could encourage drug use, but NOT IMO because it is an HR-based site, but because of all the other things on the forums. Maybe we are using different definitions of harm reduction too? To remove the harm reduction approach would be to use the approach that all drugs are bad and you should never use any drugs. Obviously that approach doesn't work. I also don't think trip reports count as harm reduction. Some might have some elements of HR, but they are not just HR. A basic HR stance does not have to involve giving the kid detailed instructions on how to use specific drugs as safely as possible. It could be as simple as saying things like "if you ever decide to try a drug please let me know beforehand and we can talk about it" or "some drugs are more dangerous than others, certain ones are especially dangerous because they can kill you or you can become addicted".

Plus, it isn't HR to say "using X amount of Z drug is perfectly safe and has no adverse consequences whatsoever", it is HR to say "if you're going to use Z drug, then it is more safe to only use X amount, and here are the possible consequences even if you only use X amount". I agree that this level of detail is likely not necessary at this point, however.

I was disagreeing with the statements like:

If he sees that there are ways to reduce harm and precisely dose drugs, he'll probably just end up justifying harder drug use because he uses "harm reduction" and he "carefully doses."

reading about people who use in moderation, and about harm reduction might help him take the leap towards drugs rather than stop him from it.

E-mailing could be ... a way of harm reduction leading to a higher interest in drugs. ("I can ask w/e I need to know to person X, so I'm using safely.")

If you believe that knowing that there are more dangerous and less dangerous ways of doing drugs, and having someone to get truthful info about drugs from will lead to drug use and harder drug use, then I just can't agree with that. The tactic of withholding info about drugs and just saying not to use drugs at all clearly does not work.

The other thing is that how can a person know for sure that their sibling has never tried any drugs or alcohol and has no intention of doing so? If you could, then yes it wouldn't be necessary to provide any HR. It wouldn't even be necessary to talk to them about drugs, in fact. But you can't know that, all you can do is initiate a conversation with them, decide what info they might need at that point, try to make them feel like they can always be open with you, and provide basic info about reducing harm from drug use if you think that they might try drugs, and go from there. If you are honest with them and say it's ok to try alcohol or weed when you are older if you decide to but it's not safe to try heroin, and here's the reasons why, that is harm reduction. Of course you have to base what you say on what they say, and/or your suspicions about their existing knowledge and curiosity about drugs, but removing all HR aspects is a terrible idea.

 

[Tude]

Thank you everyone for your comments, they're greatly appreciated. Just a small update. My brother was talking to my sister and I about school (he's in sixth grade), and was telling us a lot of kids there smoke weed in the bathroom. He was saying he doesn't like that. I didn't ask him what he thought about it-he volunteered that info himself, so I didn't put any pressure on him. I did say that whatever those kids do in their free time is up to them, but they should keep it at home. I don't think I did too bad breaking the ice, as short a conversation it was.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Definitely a good ice-breaker Thanks for updating us. I think you are a great older sister.

 

[Tude]

Thanks so much, Swimmingdancer!

 

[Pill2Chill]

You don't really believe that, do you?

I'm curious about lots of things, and I pursue only a fraction of a percent of those things.

It's not mere curiosity that does it, it's something else, and we can talk at great length about what that "something else" is, but the bottom line is this: if her brother has that "something else," and whether he does or not we don't know, then he'll pursue drugs in one of two ways: the right way or the wrong way.

Let me put it to you like this, I know lots of people who are curious about... I don't know... computers. I only know a handful of people who are curious enough about computers to open them up, take them apart, etc. (It's actually a lot more common now, I guess.) If I throw a computer manual (or some other "how to" book or whatever) into the hands of everyone I know, no one will be put at any disadvantage because of it, and not everyone will go home and start opening up computers. In fact, it will probably bore the living hell out of those people who originally thought that they might be curious about computers... and they'll just forget the whole thing. Those few who are interested enough will find the information helpful, and will soon realize that the hammer in their hands has no place around or near a computer. lol

Yeah you're right, what it should've said was:

but it often brings along curiousity, which is one of the reasons why people try/experiment with drugs.

"#1 reason they start using drugs" weren't the right words at all.

This is what I really meant, and yes I do believe that. The methapor you used to describe it is pretty accurate. Good, constructive criticism on your part.

I do think there are people who have that "something else" that you mentioned but still don't end up a drug-user. It can have alot to do with the environment they're in. (If there is a taboo around drugs amongst friends, one is less likely to try, or, more importantly, keep using drugs, no?) May be ignorance on my part here. My friends all use pot at the least and have an open mind towards other drugs, so I can't say I'm sure about this statement at all.

How is that a contradiction? I was just saying that I do not believe HR encourages/increases drug use. I was also saying it is not important/necessary to offer detailed HR if someone isn't even using drugs or isn't likely to use them in the near future, but that it's very important to give it if you think they are using drugs or are going to. And I was also saying that Bluelight could encourage drug use, but NOT IMO because it is an HR-based site, but because of all the other things on the forums. Maybe we are using different definitions of harm reduction too? To remove the harm reduction approach would be to use the approach that all drugs are bad and you should never use any drugs. Obviously that approach doesn't work. I also don't think trip reports count as harm reduction. Some might have some elements of HR, but they are not just HR. A basic HR stance does not have to involve giving the kid detailed instructions on how to use specific drugs as safely as possible. It could be as simple as saying things like "if you ever decide to try a drug please let me know beforehand and we can talk about it" or "some drugs are more dangerous than others, certain ones are especially dangerous because they can kill you or you can become addicted".

Plus, it isn't HR to say "using X amount of Z drug is perfectly safe and has no adverse consequences whatsoever", it is HR to say "if you're going to use Z drug, then it is more safe to only use X amount, and here are the possible consequences even if you only use X amount". I agree that this level of detail is likely not necessary at this point, however.

I was disagreeing with the statements like:




If you believe that knowing that there are more dangerous and less dangerous ways of doing drugs, and having someone to get truthful info about drugs from will lead to drug use and harder drug use, then I just can't agree with that. The tactic of withholding info about drugs and just saying not to use drugs at all clearly does not work.

The other thing is that how can a person know for sure that their sibling has never tried any drugs or alcohol and has no intention of doing so? If you could, then yes it wouldn't be necessary to provide any HR. It wouldn't even be necessary to talk to them about drugs, in fact. But you can't know that, all you can do is initiate a conversation with them, decide what info they might need at that point, try to make them feel like they can always be open with you, and provide basic info about reducing harm from drug use if you think that they might try drugs, and go from there. If you are honest with them and say it's ok to try alcohol or weed when you are older if you decide to but it's not safe to try heroin, and here's the reasons why, that is harm reduction. Of course you have to base what you say on what they say, and/or your suspicions about their existing knowledge and curiosity about drugs, but removing all HR aspects is a terrible idea.

Jesus, I had written a full reply and it somehow got deleted by quoting two posts at once . I'll sum it up in short.

You are right, I was wrong. Or rather, I was talking about in-depth harm reduction info. You were not.
The basics of harm reduction are always good to be aware of. Even as a non-user.

That being said, I was very deprived of sleep when I wrote all that. I didn't read your post thoroughly enough before replying, reading it now it makes alot more sense. Thanks for not pointing out I was being a tad irrational, haha. I apologize for seemingly coming off as mr "know-it-all".

As I mentioned above, I'm very open to constructive criticism. I've been meaning to reply earlier but didn't have the energy while I was recovering from a few days amp binge. Plus if I had it might've been another post containing nonsense.

@OP You did very well. It's very good that you showed him you don't disapprove per sé. You merely pointed out that smoking pot in the bathroom during school is counter-productive and not a good time or place to use drugs. Well handled!

 

[Tude]

Thanks! I hope to keep bringing it up in the future with him.