Drug Trip in the E.R. - Good Old Special K

You might also want to explain to the editor that this has been seen in the media when guys were getting beaten down on PCP and still getting up and not feeling it. Both drugs affect NMDA.
 
EntheoDjinn said:
Not sure I agree with you there. The story is full of hyperbole and dramatic statement to the tune of "oh Gosh, I've turned this innocent kid on and now maybe he's headed for oblivion".

Rather than the shock-horror warnings and pre-emptive affidavits from people who's lives were messed up by K, perhaps intelligent discussion with Sasha might have been all that was needed. He is after all, a precocious , "genuine child genius" according to the article. He shouldn't have any problems understanding some good intelligent drugs education.

E

p.s. Apologies to panic_the_digital if I've misinterpreted your comment - perhaps you were saying that's an underlying moral story, rather than the one the Doc was rambling about!

And I suspect the Benzethonium Chloride (see label) might be much more harmful than the K!
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I did state that as the underlying moral, but nuke probably said it best. No worries.
 
From the Physicians Desk Reference,

" Ketalar (ketamine Hydrochloride Injection, USP)

Clinical Pharmacology
Ketalar is a rapid-acting general anesthetic producing an anesthetic state characterized by profound analgesia, normal pharyngeal-laryngeal reflexes, normal or slightly enhanced skeletal muscle tone, cardiovascular and respiratory stimulation, and occasionally a transient and minimal respiratory depression"

As an anesthetic, it is usually given at dosages of 2mg/kg of body weight, (althought it is recommended at a slightly lower dose for higher risk patients) in conjunction with other short acting benzodiazapines, barbituates and a drying agent such as atrophine, scopalimine. It is especially well tolerated in children under 15 years of age and those over age 65, in part due to reduced respiratory problems.

My son then 9 or 10 broke his arm playing in the backyard. Once in the ER, when it was clear that it was not just a greenstick fracture and would need to be set was given about 30mg Ketalar IV, 5 mg Versed IV, and he also 5 mg of morphine IV already on board. The orthopedic surgeon waited about 5 minutes for it all to take hold and while he set my sons' arm, my son was verbalizing "Ouch, Ouuuch, aaaaaww" (well maybe not ouch!) in a very low voice, but not moving around. By the time the cast was on 20 minutes later and another xray done, he was coming around, and within a hour I could take him home. He is now in his first year of HS and does not mention his "trip" if he even remembers it. He does remember the pain prior to having his arm set and breaking it! I think this speaks volumes about Ketamines safety and efficacy.

If not for this relatively inexpensive method of anesthesia, there are many places in the world that would not be able to take care of some acute and emergent problems at a local level and the procedure would have to be put off until arrival a a larger regional hospital. This would cause undue and needless pain and suffering. I also have not experienced this drug myself, but that does not cause me any hesitation in insuring that my family not be caused any undue suffering and increased pain levels, which throughout history is why man has sought out ways to reduce pain through the use of plant and chemical analgesia.

SubAbusePro1
 
burn out said:
i've heard that it was opiates that caused people to still be aware they were in pain but just not care but i haven't actually ever gotten high on opiates while in pain. can anyone comment on this? what does it feel like to be on opiates when in pain? are you still aware of the pain or do they make it so you can't feel your body like dxm or nitrous can?
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IME you just don't feel pain whilst on opiates, I got tattoos done on different drugs (I don't get the people that say that if you can't deal with the pain don't get the ink, bullshit, if I have the means to ease the pain of course I'll use them) anyway I used morphine and alcohol once and ketamine and marijuana on another ocassion, and other time I was way fucked up on ecstacy codeine and ketamine.

Whilst on morphine I could feel the movements of the machine and also feel and my blood dripping it just didn't hurt, I'd say the itchiness and not being able to scratch myself bothered me more than being pentrated by a needle hundreds of times per second.

On the other hand whilst on ketamine (IM sub-k hole dose, injected in the backseat of the car before entering the parlor) I kinda drifted, though I could speak and was awake, I didn't feel the machine just a subtle tingling sensation and couldn't tell if I was bleeding and felt some sharp pains now and then but at that time I had put on my ipod and didn't care much, I was also pretty stoned and lying there getting a tattoo was pretty much the same than to be thrown on the couch, whilst all fucked on E codeine and ketamine I made an ass of myself, felt no pain but remaining still was very hard, due to the E and the need to scratch, had I taken an anticollinergic beforehand I'd have been very different.
 
pr0ficient said:
....................... On Special K, you'll still feel pain — you just won't care.
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OK. I know I'll probably get a hard time for saying this, and I could do some research, but I'm sure somebody out there has a quick answer.

When we talk about pain, what are we speaking about? I imagine it to be our perception of a traumatising situation or event. If you don't feel it, then it isn't pain, because it must be imperceptible at that moment. OK there will still be tissue damage, physiological processes & etc., that accompany our usual perception of pain, but will there be "pain"?

In summary, a more detailed definition or explanation is needed if we are going to say that there is such a thing as pain that you feel, but have no awareness of in the "normal" sense of "ouch".

I have watched traumatic procedures to my body under local anesthesia and experienced nausea (emotionally-sensed pain?), but it wasn't what I'd call pain.

E
 
I can understand why the doctor in this case would be worried. I doubt, outside of that one experience, this child prodigy would have ever experienced anything dissociative or psychedelic. It's my bet that he remembered the experience VERY clearly, if he was already so advanced. C'mon, he probably had a couple sonatas under his belt and future novels brewing in that noggin!

Personally, I would see it as a useful learning experience, but the doctor seems like a "square" to me.

I clearly recall my first time with dissociatives. Once (when I was maybe 6 or 7), I had a bad case of the flu and my mom tried to get me to sleep by taking several doses of nyquil. I remember feeling like I was on a beach and the waves were washing over me...I was rocking back and forth, lifelessly. When I rediscovered DXM years later, the nostalgia was overwhelming. "So THAT'S what that was..." I realized.
 
2c-buoyant said:
Entheogens will one day save the world
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That's quite a lofty claim. I would like to think that compassionate people will one day save the world; or perhaps people acting out of a sense of extreme urgency for their direct well-being. Eventually, if things get bad enough, the world will need saving. And it will be people that do it. Not "entheogens." And not a bunch of people tripping and shit either. Practical, sane, non-drug using people that have their shit tightly squared away and are ready to take decisive action. It will be saved by sober people, at least that seems the most logical probability to me. :)
 
^i believe his point was that proper use of psychedelics can change people for the better, and in order for the world to be saved people need to change

eg, we were actually making progress with psychedelic-fueled civil rights and philosophical movements in the 60s onward. a ginormous proportion of the population tried psychedelics while they were legal and shortly after being illegalized, and the effects are still felt today

a trip may not always be practical (though mine usually are very much so) but its aftermath usually is (ie, the 'integrating' part)

see: tool, hicks, etc
 
Roger&Me said:
...................the world will need saving. And it will be .................. Practical, sane, non-drug using people that have their shit tightly squared away and are ready to take decisive action. It will be saved by sober people, at least that seems the most logical probability to me. :)
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Erm ..... I reckon I have my shit tightly squared away & etc., and I enjoy the judicious use of a range of entheogens. I believe entheogens have accentuated my pre-existing compassion, intelligence & etc. But then I suppose I would say that, and I could of course be accused of drug-induced delusions. And furthermore I reckon there's a whole pile of "shit tightly squared away" folks on bluelight, especially in PD.

There. I rest my case.

The prosecution may take the stand again ;)
 
Maybe I'm dumb, but i completely fail to see the point this article is trying to make.
 
Roger&Me said:
Practical, sane, non-drug using people that have their shit tightly squared away and are ready to take decisive action. It will be saved by sober people, at least that seems the most logical probability to me. :)
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I have never found non-drug-using people to be what I would consider entirely sane or morally reliable. At the very least, their judgements of me would likely be inaccurate and biased.
 
paranoid android said:
I guess midazolam won't make him want to try drugs at all when he gets older. He wouldnt possibly think omg that midazolam made me feel so relaxed maybe alprazolam or triazolam might make me feel the same way. I guess only drugs that have psychedelic properties can lead you down the road to evil later in life. Oh wait opiates are evil too scratch that.

This is not to mention the fact that this is a 9 year old kid for godsakes. It's not like he's going to remember or even know what the fuck he got in a emergency room when he gets older. Whats the other choice fix his broken arm without anything to help the pain.



=D now that was funny.
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I had codeine for the first time in a hospital 12 years od and I LOVED it. never was the same:(
 
Ketamine is the greatist drug there is!!!!

THE RECREATIONAL DOSE IS FAR BELOW THE MEDICINAL DOSE. Its totally fucking safe. The chemical itself can and will not hurt you. You might be a jerkoff and slam some K on a rooftop, in a swimming pool, or over a volcanic pit, but then you dying would kind of stop your moronic genes from spreading. Be in a safe comfy place, and K is the safest drug you can do besides maybe weed. IT LASTS LIKE 40 MINUTES. Its not like this drug is going to fuck your mind into a black hole of psychedelic disillusion. You can nail a gagger before work and an hour later be more sober than a snake-charming evangelist. THEY SHOOT LITTLE KIDS UP WITH MORE THAN YOU CAN DO TO GET HIGH. Fuck that "cat tranq" stereotype, yea its used on animals, its used on human-animals just as much. I know the general public are a bunch of squirming slugs who will be swayed by even the slightest hint of propaganda, but ket synergizes perfectly with the human body. It wont stop your heart. It wont stop your diaphragm, and it wont stop your brain. There is one problem with ketamine - its so fucking perfect that its easy to get addicted. Theres no comedown. Theres no bad side effects really. Theres no damage to your body unless your taking Pablo Escobar's up your schnoz every 30 mins, and its a really cheap drug. Convenient. Safe. Ketapurrrr...


CHEERS TO KETAMINE HCL, A MIRACLE OF MODERN MEDICINE!!!!

So lesson learned. If youre afraid of K then its either cuz your a fucking idiot, or you are like me and have done so much of it you know you couldnt be in the same room as it and not nail like 6 grams in a night.

ketami1.gif
 
very anecdotal... and I, too, fail to see the point. What's the author's stance? Kinda anti-drug unless for medical purposes, it would appear. TIME magazine is known to be conservative and manipulating, pleasing the intellect of acedemia-educated IQ folks around the globe who are too dumb to realise they're being duped by what they're reading.

@THE WOOD: I agree that K can be addictive. I don't agree that it has "no bad side effects" (I believe it can mess up the kidneys if taken in excess) and I also don't agree that it has "no comedown". I also find that there are after-effects way beyond the 40 minutes, and that it can last much longer than 40 minutes, sometimes, depending on dose. Plus, there are other psychological side effects... not just addiction. I don't want to badmouth K - in fact I think it's a great drug - but I do think they way you glorify it can do with a bit of counterbalancing.
 
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