Drug-Overdose Fatalities A Result Of Fear

I didn't know that the authorities actually went ahead and arrested people who called emergency services for help with OD's. Well aside from what I saw in Requiem for a Dream anyway... that was nasty.

So in certain places if you call for an ambulance and tell them there's been an OD they're likely to alert the cops at the same time? And the cops can get away with searching everyone present and the premises?

If that actually happens then why not just... I don't know... carry your friend outside and have one person, with nothing on them obviously, stand with them till the ambulance/pigs arrive and tell them that you were walking past and saw them lying there? Seems like a simple solution to me but I've never had to deal with an overdose.

That's all very crazy though, I mean drugs're supposed to be illegal to protect us from ourselves and yet we can't even ask for help if something goes wrong without punishment for... refusing to let them protect us?
 
I can't remember the exact words or who said it but this is close:

"The reason communism failed and why all political movements fail is that doctrine cannot revolutionize the internal world of thought and all leaders have failed to notice it."

Peace,
PL
 
Legalize? You would have fewer od's but picture the situation. Your average Joe encounters a relatively normal anecdotal problem, such as an arguement with a close friend, overly high payments due, etc., and stops at CVS to buy a pack of cigarettes to ease his nerves. Next to the cigarettes they're selling heroin (hypothetically, not litterarly bags sitting there) and he decides to purchase some. His problems are gone, he notices it relieves his pain much better than alcohol does, there's no hangover, so he returns to the store on a routine basis after that day. He is hooked on heroin. Having an opiate addiction ultimately does not have a happy ending.

If he needs to take part in shady travel to Newark to purchase h in the first place, he probably wouldn't have gotten himself the opiate addiction.

Selling drugs in special shops or clinics would be advertising it just as much, if not more, by giving the customer a sense of security because of the specialization or in the case of a clinic, adding a medical quality to it. There's a big difference between running a methadone clinic for addicts and 'selling heroin in a controlled manner.'

I agree though, passing a bill to punish for negligence in od situations is just stupid.
 
lyXw33d said:
Legalize? You would have fewer od's but picture the situation. Your average Joe encounters a relatively normal anecdotal problem, such as an arguement with a close friend, overly high payments due, etc., and stops at CVS to buy a pack of cigarettes to ease his nerves. Next to the cigarettes they're selling heroin (hypothetically, not litterarly bags sitting there) and he decides to purchase some. His problems are gone, he notices it relieves his pain much better than alcohol does, there's no hangover, so he returns to the store on a routine basis after that day. He is hooked on heroin. Having an opiate addiction ultimately does not have a happy ending.

If he needs to take part in shady travel to Newark to purchase h in the first place, he probably wouldn't have gotten himself the opiate addiction.

Selling drugs in special shops or clinics would be advertising it just as much, if not more, by giving the customer a sense of security because of the specialization or in the case of a clinic, adding a medical quality to it. There's a big difference between running a methadone clinic for addicts and 'selling heroin in a controlled manner.'

I agree though, passing a bill to punish for negligence in od situations is just stupid.
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Do you really think that someone who hasn't given a thought about trying herion before it was legal would make then want to try it just because it was legal? Personally I have never tried heroin and I don't want to, and if it were made legal today it still would not change my mind about wanting to try it. I don't think that in making a drug legal that there is going to be an uprise in the number of people that are or get addicted.
 
More people would probally try heroin if it was legal, but more people would try heroin if it was socially acceptiable. Take marijuana for example, its illegal, yet over 20 million people take it every month. More people are using heroin now than before, and more people are going to start. I bet heroin becomes the big drug of this decade, for the simple fact that pain medications are getting more popular and heroin will always play 2nd fiddle to it. It can be illegal, and still be easy to get. If the demand increases to the point that everyone wants it, everyone will be able to get it. If it was legal, maybe more people would use it, more because of the false stigma then anything, but if they want to use it they are adults, who gives a shit. The whole arguement is based on a freedom to do whatever you want with your own body. Just remeber though, anyone can legally get methadone, but how many people are on the clinic? If you did the same thing with heroin that would remain the same. I think they should sell all drugs in 7-11 though, as its a freedom issue to me more than a health issue.
 
What about strict controls on legal heroin, eg you must be over 25 to purchase it, it's only sold in amounts of 1 or 2 moderate doses per week to each individual and you must inject/whatever at the place where you purchase it rather than take it away (to prevent clean people who want to make a buck from selling their allotment of H to anyone who wants more).

Personally I prefer the idea of an all-out-everything's-legal-state but that seems like a happy medium to me. Or would that just mean that there was still a strong black market and legal heroin clinics just created more black market addicts? Whether it's legal or not, strictly controlled or not, people will find a way to get it and some will get addicted, just like with booze.

The fact remains - if you want to you can go out on any given day and purchase opiates whether heroin or codeine or whatever, and you can do it everyday for the most part, and because doing it is illegal there are a lot of stupid health risks that there shouldn't be. Bollocks to that.

Just wait until I get into government lads. We'll be fuckin sorted lol.
 
lyXw33d said:
Legalize? You would have fewer od's but picture the situation. Your average Joe encounters a relatively normal anecdotal problem, such as an arguement with a close friend, overly high payments due, etc., and stops at CVS to buy a pack of cigarettes to ease his nerves. Next to the cigarettes they're selling heroin (hypothetically, not litterarly bags sitting there) and he decides to purchase some. His problems are gone, he notices it relieves his pain much better than alcohol does, there's no hangover, so he returns to the store on a routine basis after that day. He is hooked on heroin. Having an opiate addiction ultimately does not have a happy ending.

If he needs to take part in shady travel to Newark to purchase h in the first place, he probably wouldn't have gotten himself the opiate addiction.

Selling drugs in special shops or clinics would be advertising it just as much, if not more, by giving the customer a sense of security because of the specialization or in the case of a clinic, adding a medical quality to it. There's a big difference between running a methadone clinic for addicts and 'selling heroin in a controlled manner.'

I agree though, passing a bill to punish for negligence in od situations is just stupid.
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Only the "transition-time" away from prohibition would cause these problems, plus the mass media and there culture of fear and moral panics that they will ensue. Suddenly the heart of the country would be against the move for the safety of the children and still think that tougher penalties and more just say no campaigns will eventually make things right.
 
it's illegal it buy the drug. it's illegal to used the drug. it's illegal to have the syringes (in many places). i dont think that people are going to care that its ilegal to let someone die from an overdose.
i used to shoot heroin. i've seen some near overdoses(but she came out from it) and i've nearly overdoses twice(but came out both times). it's a fucked up situation when an overdose happens...
a law isnt going to change shit except it'll send more people to jail. if they want this shit to change they need to make a "no questions asked" od policy at hospitals. then you could just drop whoever off at a hospital no questions asked.
in my county they have the same thing with newly born babies. you get like 6 days after giving birth to go drop the baby off at the emergency room if you don't want it. no questions asked. so the baby doesnt get thrown in a dumpster behind burger king.
not very suprising politicians care more about new born babies than they care about drug addicts.....
 
lyXw33d said:
Legalize? You would have fewer od's but picture the situation. Your average Joe encounters a relatively normal anecdotal problem, such as an arguement with a close friend, overly high payments due, etc., and stops at CVS to buy a pack of cigarettes to ease his nerves. Next to the cigarettes they're selling heroin (hypothetically, not litterarly bags sitting there) and he decides to purchase some. His problems are gone, he notices it relieves his pain much better than alcohol does, there's no hangover, so he returns to the store on a routine basis after that day. He is hooked on heroin. Having an opiate addiction ultimately does not have a happy ending.

If he needs to take part in shady travel to Newark to purchase h in the first place, he probably wouldn't have gotten himself the opiate addiction.

Selling drugs in special shops or clinics would be advertising it just as much, if not more, by giving the customer a sense of security because of the specialization or in the case of a clinic, adding a medical quality to it. There's a big difference between running a methadone clinic for addicts and 'selling heroin in a controlled manner.'

I agree though, passing a bill to punish for negligence in od situations is just stupid.
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anyone who uses drugs to escape their problems deserves what they get...
 
lyXw33d said:
Legalize? You would have fewer od's but picture the situation. Your average Joe encounters a relatively normal anecdotal problem, such as an arguement with a close friend, overly high payments due, etc., and stops at CVS to buy a pack of cigarettes to ease his nerves. Next to the cigarettes they're selling heroin (hypothetically, not litterarly bags sitting there) and he decides to purchase some. His problems are gone, he notices it relieves his pain much better than alcohol does, there's no hangover, so he returns to the store on a routine basis after that day. He is hooked on heroin. Having an opiate addiction ultimately does not have a happy ending.
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The government should build roads and employ cops to catch murderers, not "protect us from ourselves".

Adults are adults and can make their own choices. If heroin were legal (and we wanted to remain socialist), we could use some of the money from taxing it to create free clinics and treatment centers. Treating drug addiction as a health issue, not a legal one, makes a lot more sense than trying to prevent it's sale completely.
 
Yes, and they can still have a stigma on it, i mean who actually thinks that helping heroin addicts influences ppl to become heroin addicts? If thats the case then we have bigger problems. But the fact is we have civil rights and one of those is we are free or should be helped to be free of pain and suffering hence why when ppl smoke and get cancer or drink and get cancer they are allowed to get helped and arent considered criminals.
 
Simply stop prosecuting people who use heroin etcetra and all will be well many will live, but that would be considered a counter productive move by the establishment in your great country would it not ?











zophen
 
Intoxo said:
That means realizing that your new friends are gonna care more about their stash's safety than your life, just like you care more about your bags than your friends lives.
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i really don't think it's about your stash as much as getting arrested for possession.
True, it is irresponsible for you to be getting off with your friends, he OD's and you ditch the shit and bounce. But if there were a garantee that you wouldn't be charged with possession for helping your friend, then im sure a lot of ODs would be taken care of at a hospital..
and if you could call an ambulance, without police showing up, then that would work too. (that no questions asked deal too.)
 
The solution to this particular problem would be to just give amnesty to the people calling 911. If you know that you won't get in any trouble at all for having a heroin party with an assload of heroin in your possession and having someone overdose, then why wouldn't you call the cops? If there's no penalty in getting the law involved in order to save someone's life, why wouldn't you do it? If it was save for these people to call the cops, I'm sure the half-way intelligent ones would, rather than having a "friend" die, most likely in one of their houses.
 
I'm all for decriminalization and regulation of illicit substances, but that probably won't happen for a long time, if ever. Society on a whole is very naïve when it comes to the subject of drugs. The majority of the population still believes that the current system works, and illicit drug users deserve to go to prison. What we need is a massive information campaign that can truly convince people that the current system does not work at all, and people will continue using illicit drugs regardless of the risks involved, possible penalties if discovered, or who they have to deal with to get the substances in the first place.
 
Maybe I am off base on this one, but this one is kinda personal. I knew Andy, the person that was referenced in the article. His father is truly a stand up guy, and as you can tell from the article has not allowed himself to be pulled into political or legislative battles over his sons death. He puts the majority of the blame where blame is due and that is on Andys own personal demons and addictions. He has also spent a considerable amount of his own money towards educating people in Salt Lake and Utah County about the tragedy of his sons death and encouraging more responsible behavior ( he does this through billboards)

Personally, I have a huge problem with the idea that this is the governments fault, or the fault of the police, etc. I cannot imagine how fucked up we must be, to think that we need to be granted immunity or a get out of jail card free, before we will fucking do something to save our friends lives. The concept that we are so selfish that we would even consider our own relatively small consequences over the desperately needed medical attention our friends need, is absolutely mindboggling to me.

The laws may in fact be wrong and society may be harsh and judgemental but that is no excuse to not get your friends immediate medical help. You may go to jail, but your friend lives, its a no brainer. If you need immunity to do the right, you are fucked beyond all belief and no laws or governmental help is ever going to make you a better person. What pisses me off in Andys case is that some of the people there would be the first ones to spout off that they would gladly go to jail in an anti-war rally or some other human rights cause, or that if it had been them in world war two Europe they would have done the right thing and hid some Jews or the Allies.

No, sorry, if you need immunity ( or even the threat of further punishment) to do the right thing and get your friends medical attention when they are dying, you will never have what it takes to stand up for the greater causes in life, whatever they may be.
 
Not an hour after reading this I found out the news that a girl I was friends with in high school O.D.'d over the weekend. Whoever she was with laid her body out behind a truck stop and covered her with a blanket. Thankfully, someone found her before it was too late, and she survived.
 
I've been reading more of this thread.. and I have a story to contribute..

Like I said before, at my local needle exchange they give out Narcan (complete with prescription and 4cc IM syringe). My girlfriend and I had aquired some because we had aquaintences almost dropping like flies around us. The heroin problem in the town I just moved out of is pretty ridiculous, and just for reference I'm now tackling not using anymore and wasn't using when this story happened. Anyway, after awhile we ended up giving the rest of our Narcan vials to friends... so a few weeks ago when a close friend of mine overdosed, I was put in a situation where if someone didn't call 911 and risk the police showing up and asking questions, she would die. The only other person around when she overdosed quickly started yelling at me to "Get her out of here!", and "Don't you mention my name!". The guy was a prick. Wouldn't even let me use his phone to call 911. So I had to take her across the street to a friends house and then call.

After giving her CPR for nearly 25 minutes, the ambulance finally showed up and administered the naloxone and she came out of it. Shortly later the police showed up immediately expressing things like "Well if you don't wanna get charged with attempted murder, you had better tell us the truth." They were told the basic information of what had happened, but not anything more than necessary. They didn't press charges.

From what I understand things would have been up to the girl. And when questioned in the hospital afterwards she opted to not press charges, because obviously it was no ones fault but her own. So nothing more happened. When the police showed up I think they saw things as they appeared to be. People were using heroin, something went bad, and they made the right decision to save this persons life at all costs.
 
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