Drug experts issue warning over 'chem-sex' parties

[QUOTE="realtalkloc, post: 12407300, member: 327327"You can only find meth in the gay community, why is that? is there a greater demand for it by the gay community than any other community?[/QUOTE]

That's certainly not how it is in Sydney. I know a few gay and lesbians and they aren't meth users, but I also know some dudes who are straight that are. I guess it depends where you are and stuff.

Sure there is plenty of drugs in 'parts' of the gay community in certain circles, but flip side there is plenty of drugs in 'some' straight circles.

There's plenty of meth in some Asian circles here too. This whole discussion is pointless imo.

It's kind of like me generalising and saying in Sydney you can only find meth or heroin in the asian or leb communities. Total bullshit.
 
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I think it probably happens with heterosexual couples as well hey.

Yes, but I don't think with the social aspect, so much. That's the difference.

That's certainly not how it is in Sydney. I know a few gay and lesbians and they aren't meth users, but I also know some dudes who are straight that are. I guess it depends where you are and stuff.

Sure there is plenty of drugs in 'parts' of the gay community in certain circles, but flip side there is plenty of drugs in 'some' straight circles.

There's plenty of meth in some Asian circles here too. This whole discussion is pointless imo.

I can't speak for the gay community, not leaning in that direction, but I can say that from socializing with gay friends and buying off gay dealers (it's ''well known'' - and also true in my experience - that they tend to have the best stuff, if you're on the town on the weekend looking for meth in particular or drugs in general), that there is a lot of meth in the gay scene and that this kind of thing (meth fuelled sex, often in social settings, not so sure about the needles) does happen in that scene.

Of course there's meth in the straight scene, drugs aren't divided by sexual preference, but there it's more of an enhancement to the general experience, shared between a group on a night out, although if that night out leads to some amenable company of the opposite gender (generally the goal in mainstream clubs), then they can split off and enjoy together while they enjoy eachother, so to speak. It's also less open and accepted (in the mainstream club scene, less so in the underground scenes, where the sexual focus is lessened and it's more about fueling long hours of dancing - in theory anyway, in reality what it tends to fuel is long hours of sitting in the car park passing a pipe around, arguing over who's having too large a toke and hogging the gear, missing much of the music you paid to come dance to).

My suspicion is that there is more meth in the gay scene, it's certainly easier to find there than in mainstream straight clubs, even for straight people.

I think it boils down to a couple of factors (I don't have hard numbers, this is just going off my observations and conversations with people):

- Gay men tend to be more open and blunt about sex (Compare Grindr to Tinder, in popularity, content and when they emerged). I don't think this is because gay men are inherently more sexual or promiscuous than straight men, but because men in general tend to take that approach to sex, whereas women in general tend to be more careful, more reserved. I don't see any point in arguing about nature v. nurture or gender roles or whether it's because the evil patriarchy suppresses female sexuality, but basic observation will show that this is the way it is in the Western world. Mostly, men play the active role and women play the passive role and women are less inclined to casual sex with more or less strangers. Remove that passive role (in terms of finding partners) and that lack of inclination, and you get gay men having access to what straight men would kill for, easy, cut the bullshit, no strings attached sex.

- Gay men are a minority of the population, and a minority which faces a degree of discrimination (and historically, a much greater degree) as such, they're far less likely to find partners, or even friends sharing their sexuality, in the wider world. So they go to spaces occupied by other gay men, which in most cities tend to be nightclubs and bars, places designed for music, intoxication, and often locating sexual partners. Especially for those young 18 - 20 types, just finding a community of people like themselves for the first time and wanting to dive in, but also for older gay men (which imo is why the quality is high, you have a customer base who know what they want and are able to pay for it, as opposed to a teenage clubber or raver spending what's left over of his pay check from his part time job in fast food/waiting tables/retail on what he's assured is ''the best shit around'' and without the experience to have any clue whether that's true or not. Getting ripped off or sold dud product is basically a rite of passage for 17/18 year olds entering the club or rave scene.

- Meth, as a drug, makes a lot of things feel great, and it tends to make you want do those things repetitively for long periods of time. Sex is no exception. It also lowers inhibition and increasing your focus on your immediate situation (reducing long term thinking), especially when consumed with alcohol, GHB (itself well known for enhancing sex). Here I absolutely can speak from personal experience. Before I realized the drug just wasn't for me, I did a ton of dumb shit I wouldn't have done and acted in ways I absolutely wouldn't have otherwise acted because I was on meth or meth combined with a GABAergic drug.

- Finally, at the darker end of the spectrum, being a part of a minority which faces discrimination tends to lead to factors which tend to lead to increased drug abuse and addiction, and self destructive and risk taking behavior in general.

That's how I see it anyway. We can accept that there might well be a problem with meth and dangerous sexual behavior in the gay community without the inherent assumption that gay men are self destructive drug fueled sex maniacs if we're willing to examine the intersection of the huge pile of circumstances leading to all this. Gay men don't need to feel that they're being accused of aforementioned ''self destructive drug fueled sex mania'' and well meaning but misguided straight people don't need to leap into action and get all facetious about how nope, no dangerous sex or drug abuse here, no sir, in an attempt to prove how not homophobic they are.
 
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^ Crankinit, I agree with much of what you are saying, and would like to reiterate the point I tried to make to begin with, which - as i see it - ties in with some of what you are saying here; in general terms, men (particularly young, single men) tend to be more risk-taking than women of the same age/demographics etc, which contributes to the risky pleasure seeking of exclusively male drug taking group sexual interactions.
It is simply an element of masculinity that seems fairly well accepted (phrases like "boys will be boys" come to mind).
Certain ideologies will argue for or against the accuracy of such generalisations, but without getting into that, I think there is a certain element of masculinity that values and appreciates "risk".

I don't generally wish to lean on or perpetuate gender stereotypes, but in this case - when it comes to drugs and sex - there is a certain logic in considering that risky, hedonistic behaviour may be more prevalent in sex + drug party scenes that are made up entirely of males - assuming that men respond more to the thrill of danger and risk than most women do.

This is not to say that women (regardless of sexuality) do not indulge in risky sexual or drug taking practices - of course some women do - but a really simplistic explanation for the prevalence of drug fuelled, promiscuous sex amongst gay men is related to how mainstream gay cultures have developed in the last 20-30 years - from an underground, hidden and (in many instances) previously illegal community - existing in spite of these taboos, and creating its own norms in terms of social and sexual interaction - many of which still carry the elements of 'deviant' pleasure-seeking that were tolerated and even celebrated in the days when homosexuality was relegated to the fringes of society and pushed underground.

While much of the western world has made big steps in accepting gay communities and cultures, sexual practices considered risky are still a part of gay life. When a community of people is steeped for so long in secrecy and taboo, the rapidly evolving issues of identity are still changing and quite fluid.
Drugs are a part of this - as are sexual 'norms'.
It is unrealistic to expect gay cultures to mirror the (long established and rather clearly defined) sexual, social and courtship practices as they are understood in the heterosexual world.

If drugs have been a feature in some underground gay scenes (as they have existed for the last half century or so, when western attitudes towards sex [in general] started becoming much less rigid) - it is hardly going to disappear from the culture because the rest of society has finally developed a level of acceptance of same-sex attracted people.
While I am suggesting that the typically male trait of risk-taking being seen as attractive/exciting/whatever - and this is amplified by having a drug+sex party scene consisting solely of men (or women, but I am not aware of the prevalence of this sort of thing being as typically popular in lesbian communities - can anyone shed any light on this?) - it is also matter of the way gay cultures have developed.
Emerging from the shadows and into the mainstream of many countries' wider communities has meant a lot of different things for different gay people - but to expect that some of the more unique (and 'risky') elements of gay party culture will simply disappear because of this wider acceptance is not likely to happen instantly

People may be getting complacent about the risk of HIV and Hep C (among other things) with the improvements in medical treatment for both of these - and this is certainly cause for concern in some communities.

But besides better education in safe sex and harm reduction strategies specifically for the drug side of things - calling something a 'problem' and suggesting gay people "need drugs to have sex" is unhelpful.

Just as the world of hetero sex & drugs is not perfect or without it's problems; the same goes for gay communities.
However, adding drug related stigma to groups of people that already carry a lot of baggage from the not-so-distant past won't solve, or even begin to address the dangers of certain combinations of sex and drugs that are potentially harmful.
Gay cultures arennot going to conform to the examples set by straight sexual interactions overnight, nor should they.

Harm reduction and education is the key in any discussion of unsafe drug use or sexual activity. It's bluelight, innit?
It's a discussion board, we are having a discussion, none of this has to concern us specifically in order to have a nice discussion.
 
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^ yeah I've heard about that. Quite an interesting approach.
Is it widely known what sort of doses are pressed into the pills?
 
I've heard about that - I guess they caught on that people in general feel much more comfortable with a drug if it comes in the form of a pill (even an illicitly pressed one), combined with seeing how popular amphetamine pills were down in the USA (are adderall, dexedrine etc. prevalent in Canada in general/Montreal in particular?)

These meth pills - do people generally know that they're taking the same chemical as crystal meth (I assume not, and that that is the whole purpose of going to the effort of pressing them)? Do some people smoke them, the way Yaba pills are smoked in SEAsia, or are they not designed for that kind of use? Are they the only meth available, or is around in other forms? How much of a difference is there in the stigma related to these different forms?

If you don't mind me drilling you a bit :p It really interests me the way chemicals which have a global presence tend to morph into different forms in random places around the world.
 
Who are these drug experts and how do you become a drug expert?

That sounds like a promising career path for myself.

You have to do a bunch of reading out of biased and outdated textbooks, followed by dissecting a frog, and lastly, concluded by a multiple choice exam.

If you pass, you are officially an "expert" - and the majority of society shall grovel before you as if they're your disciples.

Whether you're actually an expert is... debatable.

Let me choose the requirements for being an addiction expert, and I guarantee that anyone who passes will actually be an expert =D

In my humble opinion, each of you who is a regular on these forums is more of an expert on mind-altering substances (and their effects) than "the establishment's" average "expert" (on recreational drug use and addiction) ever will be.

That is, unless the status quo is turned on its head, and you are chosen as the experts by the government, which is a much better option than the scum which is currently filling the heads of those who are vulnerable with all sorts of misinformation. And I don't say this because it would allow me to finally get my pharmaceutical purity fix at a low price. Many of you really are that good, and I'd trust your opinions over theirs any day of the week, but I digress.
 
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I've heard about that - I guess they caught on that people in general feel much more comfortable with a drug if it comes in the form of a pill (even an illicitly pressed one), combined with seeing how popular amphetamine pills were down in the USA (are adderall, dexedrine etc. prevalent in Canada in general/Montreal in particular?)

These meth pills - do people generally know that they're taking the same chemical as crystal meth (I assume not, and that that is the whole purpose of going to the effort of pressing them)? Do some people smoke them, the way Yaba pills are smoked in SEAsia, or are they not designed for that kind of use? Are they the only meth available, or is around in other forms? How much of a difference is there in the stigma related to these different forms?

If you don't mind me drilling you a bit :p It really interests me the way chemicals which have a global presence tend to morph into different forms in random places around the world.

The police always refer to them as methamphetamine pills but the public seems to have cognitive dissonance about it. They do not feel the same level of taboo regarding the use of the pills compared to meth. If you gave someone crystal they would probably not try it but these pills are popular. They are simply called speed pills. It is a clever re-branding. They tend to be on the large side, unlike yaba so I do not know if many people smoke or inject them. They are quite cheap, especially in bulk. I have seen them in person. They tend to always be white but in a variety of shapes. They are typically sold by those who would sell ecstasy and used in similar circumstances.
 
I've heard about that - I guess they caught on that people in general feel much more comfortable with a drug if it comes in the form of a pill (even an illicitly pressed one), combined with seeing how popular amphetamine pills were down in the USA (are adderall, dexedrine etc. prevalent in Canada in general/Montreal in particular?)

Not sure about Canada in general, but in my area, Dexedrine and Adderall are available, but not nearly to the degree of methamphetamine pills.

These meth pills - do people generally know that they're taking the same chemical as crystal meth (I assume not, and that that is the whole purpose of going to the effort of pressing them)?

No, generally people don't have a clue what the actual chemical in the pill is, but I'm sure that's the case with the typical user of any pill. Like Dank said, everyone just calls them "speed pills." When it comes to somewhat more knowledgeable users, lots of people seem to think that the pills contain amphetamine, and in fact that's what I thought before I properly looked into it.

Do some people smoke them, the way Yaba pills are smoked in SEAsia, or are they not designed for that kind of use?

The pills are almost always swallowed or sniffed, but I can attest that the pills are both smoked and shot by a small subset of hardcore users associated with the rave scene.

Are they the only meth available, or is around in other forms?

There is a definite east-west divide when it comes to methamphetamine in Canada. The methamphetamine-pill phenomenon is concentrated in eastern Ontario, Quebec (where they are manufactured), and likely some of the provinces east of Quebec. In these areas, crystal methamphetamine is very rare. In Toronto and anywhere west of it, all the way to the Pacific Ocean, crystal methamphetamine is common and the pills are not.

How much of a difference is there in the stigma related to these different forms?

The difference is huge. Speed pills are seen as a casual party drug - basically the next step up from cannabis when it comes to social acceptability. Crystal meth... well, people think "Breaking Bad" and "Faces of Meth." It's probably the single most stigmatized drug, even more so than crack cocaine or heroin.

The pills make a major difference when it comes to actual harms, too. It seems that it's rare that people get addicted to them or have serious overuse issues.
 
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I wouldn't say crystal is that popular in Alberta. You know who controls hard drugs here, they have a monopoly and cocaine/crack make them very rich. Meth OTH is cheaper, and lasts longer making dealers less money. I won't say it doesn't exist but when I lived out east I thought the prairies were meth central and they really aren't. BC is just drug wonderland they have lots of everything.
If those big rectangle speed pills from QC put a mg amount on the pill I would say they are great, right now they are too often passed off as MDMA and too likely to contain god knows what else. I do like speed pills thought as harm reduction.
 
Yes there's a major problem within the so called LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trans) "community" and crystal meth and other drugs including alcohol. But, it's been like this for decades.
 
the only place u can get crystal meth in my city is in the gay village. Perhaps it is because their is a great social acceptance of risk taking behaviors, i don't know.
That's kinda funny BC around bmore and DC the predominantly gay areas are the only places you can find glass, or of you know someone..but def more popular in the gay scene.
 
^ my understanding is that in certain gay scenes the sexual use of meth has been prevalent since the 1960s, if not earlier.
 
^ my understanding is that in certain gay scenes the sexual use of meth has been prevalent since the 1960s, if not earlier.

That's true. In the 40s, 50s, and even early/mid-60s it was primarily amphetamines, and then from the mid-60s through today it's been mainly meth (called Methedrine decades ago) in pills or made by people.

I have never used meth and never want to. But I know a lot of gay men who have or still do, and even guys who you would not think did until they told you. I also know bi and gay men who are addicted to opiates who use them or who used to use them but again you would not know this unless they told you.
 
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hey..... i have sex well suck off sessions with another married buddy.... some times we use poppers and its great when we are sucking.... what do guys use when haveing ssex... poppers only last a few min so would like sometihg that last like maybe 10 min.... or so...the hight is really nice and you get so into it when u do poppers.
 
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