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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
Dr switched me to Fentanyl Transdermal patch from Dilaudis and have some question...
- Thread starter painenduser
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painenduser
Bluelighter
I was thinking that it may have nothing to do with the patch at all. Since I started using the patch I've also been using a different laptop while laying in bed and the arm the patch is on is on has been a little more elevated, so it may just be coincidental muscle fatigue.
Now thats funny lol, hope ya cleaned off your monitor when you were done! lmao
Let's just hope I do not have to find out anytime soon!!!
duragesic are/were the jannsen cilag gel reservoir patch, durogesic are the polymer matrix. how you like dem apples
I was reading something that said that these were recalled because a tiny cut in the lining of the gel could cause an accidental overdose. The patches that I have there is no way for this to happen as the fentanyl is not separated into a gel but its rather mixed into to the adhesive so there is no way to get more of it into your system unless of coarse you wear more then one or attempt to get the fent into you system in anyway other then wearing the patch (I've heard of people chewing the patch, ugh, that just doesn't seem appetizing to me). I will say I like these patches better then any other narcotic I have been on as there is less side effects and very little euphoric affect which usually is what leads people to abuse them, and my pain is fully controlled!!! This has been the first time in 2 years that I have gotten complete relief. So as you can imagine, I'm ecstatic!
Oh and Disposition, thanks for not closing this thread even though we got close to getting off topic a few times... This has been a fun thread as well as being a very very informative one. So thanks again!
painenduser
Bluelighter
Ok, one more dumb question...Since these patches are 72 hour patches, how do you know if you've gotten all the medication out of them? I ask only because they are very expensive and I was thinking, if there is still medicine left in the patch after 72 hours, how long do you think you could wait before applying the new one? Or is this a deal where the patch actually runs out of medicine before the 72 hours, but they tell you to wait the full 72 hours so that you dont risk double dosing for a short period of time. My understanding is that it releases the medication into the fatty layer just under the skin and it can pool there where it will eventually get into your blood stream. Any thoughts?
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
they actually contain more fentanyl than is required, 72 hours is the roundoff where they're most efficiently before needing to apply a new patch. if you're stuck in a situation where you're unable to reapply on time you've at least got some time on your hand in most cases. there are people who complain that patches become useless after only 48 hours.
and yeah you're right about transdermal absorption. it's diffused through the skin for systemic action.
and yeah you're right about transdermal absorption. it's diffused through the skin for systemic action.
painenduser
Bluelighter
Yeah, I wasn't sure if it would have more had more or less then the 72 hours. I'm going to guess that those that complain that they become useless after 48 hours, are the addicts, or people who continually find a way to take way more meds then they are prescribed. In 7 hours I hit my 72 hour mark, but I was thinking I could let it go to stretch it out as long as possible see if I cant pull an extra full day or 2 out of my 5 patches, but if there is less meds, I don't want to riisk starting into withdraw as it can take upwards of 2 hours before the new patch begins to take hold. hmmmmm
Violenza666
Bluelighter
If you wanna test the 72 hour thing.... wear them until you feel your pain come back or you start feeling WD symptoms.
painenduser
Bluelighter
Yeah I pretty much wanted to avoid that
I will say however that it did seem to holdout just fine to the 72 hours, but I didn't want to push out further then that for fear of either one occurring since the patch can take some time before it actually kicks in. No point in being at all miserable if I can avoid it easy enough
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
i can totally empathise with your situation, doug. a lot of that sounds familiar with the pain i suffer. i've spondylolisthesis (l4-s1, bulging/herniated discs, and everything else that stems from that), am 25 and it took a lot of time and energy finding the right doctor who was willing to take me on and work with me. i've had to go between 3 (4th now) doctors over the last 4 years, not including all the dickwad walk in and walk out.
i had an awful run until about the age 21-22 when i found a GP and PM doc who liaised and set up a regime. it's been a constant roller coaster going from sufficient coverage to nothing at all. i'm fortunately seeing a doctor who is compassionate to my situation and willing to work with me as long as i work with him. i've recently had to trial indocin suppositories in an effort to cut my oxy and valium dose down but i had no luck with them. i'm sure i trialled them at 19 with no luck as well.
this is getting off topic and not really appropriate but if you'd like to start your own thread then that's cool, people can try give advice in there.
i had an awful run until about the age 21-22 when i found a GP and PM doc who liaised and set up a regime. it's been a constant roller coaster going from sufficient coverage to nothing at all. i'm fortunately seeing a doctor who is compassionate to my situation and willing to work with me as long as i work with him. i've recently had to trial indocin suppositories in an effort to cut my oxy and valium dose down but i had no luck with them. i'm sure i trialled them at 19 with no luck as well.
this is getting off topic and not really appropriate but if you'd like to start your own thread then that's cool, people can try give advice in there.
painenduser
Bluelighter
Ok, this should be my last question, but reserve the right to ask more should more arise!
So in the insert of the package of patches as well as searching places like RXlist.com, drugs.com, it says that with the patch on you can swim, take a shower or bath, run through a sprinkler, ect .... (OK I added in the sprinkler), basically you can do all normal activities that you normally would where water in concerned. Now that bothers me in and of itself. How does water NOT inter fear with the patch? Is this because there is nothing in the patch, ie, matrix, adhesive (I guess they are really one in the same in these patches as there is no gel reservoir to leak out and wash down the drain?
And this question is actually 2 part as there is another place on those sites as well as the medication insert that day that you should not apply heat to the patch we it could allow more of the fentanyl to be absorbed into the skin thereby increasing the likely hood of an OD, and infact there is a post in here http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/424365-The-Eagle-s-Fentanyl-Patch-Guide?highlight=eagle+fentanyl where he says and I quote:
Now in this snippet he is talking about the Mylan's Matrix patches, to which he refers to as "garbage", and if you want to increase their potency follow one or more of the above. Now what has my a little confused is that the instructions say it's ok to let it get wet through normal daily activities (bath and shower being a couple normal activities), but to increase it's potency per Eagle, sit in not tub. I don't don't really see much of a difference between being in a hot tub vs. taking a hot showever or bath.
Now as far as I know in the Mylan Matrix style patch there is no gel and the patch is very similar to mine which is made by Apotex Corp. where the patch basically looks like a giant bandaid minus the gauze. Once the protective shield (clear) is removed all you are left with is a patch that consists of adhesive mixed with the fentanyl (I believe) and the backing which is beige in color that becomes the out side or top side of the patch.
So if the instructions in the product state that once applied you can take a shower or bath, but then also say do not expose the patch to heat as this could potentially release more fentanyl and lead to a possible OD?? And Eagle post boasts, how being in the hot water of a hot tub is a good way to abuse the patch (again I must restate that his post was referring to the Mylan's Matrix patches, and not mine which to my eyes look to be the same). If by chance there is a distinct difference between the two please educate me however, again I'll restate that the instructions in mine DO say, bath and shower OK, but heat is NOT.
Anyone care to take a gander?
(I know it a long question which could have been written much shorter, but I would rather ask a long winder question, then a shorter one that would invoke more questions and possible more (new) threads similar in nature, by 10 other people
Thanks!
So in the insert of the package of patches as well as searching places like RXlist.com, drugs.com, it says that with the patch on you can swim, take a shower or bath, run through a sprinkler, ect .... (OK I added in the sprinkler), basically you can do all normal activities that you normally would where water in concerned. Now that bothers me in and of itself. How does water NOT inter fear with the patch? Is this because there is nothing in the patch, ie, matrix, adhesive (I guess they are really one in the same in these patches as there is no gel reservoir to leak out and wash down the drain?
And this question is actually 2 part as there is another place on those sites as well as the medication insert that day that you should not apply heat to the patch we it could allow more of the fentanyl to be absorbed into the skin thereby increasing the likely hood of an OD, and infact there is a post in here http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/424365-The-Eagle-s-Fentanyl-Patch-Guide?highlight=eagle+fentanyl where he says and I quote:
Now in this snippet he is talking about the Mylan's Matrix patches, to which he refers to as "garbage", and if you want to increase their potency follow one or more of the above. Now what has my a little confused is that the instructions say it's ok to let it get wet through normal daily activities (bath and shower being a couple normal activities), but to increase it's potency per Eagle, sit in not tub. I don't don't really see much of a difference between being in a hot tub vs. taking a hot showever or bath.
Now as far as I know in the Mylan Matrix style patch there is no gel and the patch is very similar to mine which is made by Apotex Corp. where the patch basically looks like a giant bandaid minus the gauze. Once the protective shield (clear) is removed all you are left with is a patch that consists of adhesive mixed with the fentanyl (I believe) and the backing which is beige in color that becomes the out side or top side of the patch.
So if the instructions in the product state that once applied you can take a shower or bath, but then also say do not expose the patch to heat as this could potentially release more fentanyl and lead to a possible OD?? And Eagle post boasts, how being in the hot water of a hot tub is a good way to abuse the patch (again I must restate that his post was referring to the Mylan's Matrix patches, and not mine which to my eyes look to be the same). If by chance there is a distinct difference between the two please educate me however, again I'll restate that the instructions in mine DO say, bath and shower OK, but heat is NOT.
Anyone care to take a gander?
(I know it a long question which could have been written much shorter, but I would rather ask a long winder question, then a shorter one that would invoke more questions and possible more (new) threads similar in nature, by 10 other people
Thanks!
The ways of abusing mylan,exhists for apotex and all the matrix patches. In fact, the most patches today are the matrix style, they stick more better than the gel ones, IMO, and they are less abusable(they can't be smoken). IMO, they are better for pain control..
MartinFn
MartinFn
And of course, you can take a shower with the patch stuck on you, as i think it says in the leaflet. You can't take it off, have a shower and stick it again in the same area, it will lose a lot of it's potency (i tried it once, and the pain come back, i found it the fuckin hard way..: |), i know that you're in a lot of pain and believe me, i would never give wrong advise at someone who's in a lot of fuckin pain, cause i have chronic fuckin pain too, and i know how hard it is..just use the patch the way it is made to be..i'm in 100 every 48 hours. Try to use it for 72h, as you're in the beginning. And something else, stick it in a place of your body that doesn't move all the time. IMO, and in a lot of other's opinion, the best place is at your chest..move your hand and you will see a muscle at your chest that it stays steady..that's the place you're looking for. And of course this isn't the only place..you just want a place that it doesn't move all the time. I say the chest cause it's really a good place(the best,IMO). And of course don't make any of the tricks that people says, you wanna stop the pain, not get high..(although when you use the patches in the beginning, you might get some euphoria, heh, i remember the first time i use it, wow, that's it, i said..no pain and a warm nice feeling, REALLY fuckin great, a miracle medicine, you know what i mean..: D). So, i wish it will work fine, and take all,or at least the most of your pain, mate, i feel you, believe me...wish you the best my friend..
MartinFn
.MartinFn
Violenza666
Bluelighter
Ok, this should be my last question, but reserve the right to ask more should more arise!
So in the insert of the package of patches as well as searching places like RXlist.com, drugs.com, it says that with the patch on you can swim, take a shower or bath, run through a sprinkler, ect .... (OK I added in the sprinkler), basically you can do all normal activities that you normally would where water in concerned. Now that bothers me in and of itself. How does water NOT inter fear with the patch? Is this because there is nothing in the patch, ie, matrix, adhesive (I guess they are really one in the same in these patches as there is no gel reservoir to leak out and wash down the drain?
And this question is actually 2 part as there is another place on those sites as well as the medication insert that day that you should not apply heat to the patch we it could allow more of the fentanyl to be absorbed into the skin thereby increasing the likely hood of an OD, and infact there is a post in here http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/424365-The-Eagle-s-Fentanyl-Patch-Guide?highlight=eagle+fentanyl where he says and I quote:
Now in this snippet he is talking about the Mylan's Matrix patches, to which he refers to as "garbage", and if you want to increase their potency follow one or more of the above. Now what has my a little confused is that the instructions say it's ok to let it get wet through normal daily activities (bath and shower being a couple normal activities), but to increase it's potency per Eagle, sit in not tub. I don't don't really see much of a difference between being in a hot tub vs. taking a hot showever or bath.
Now as far as I know in the Mylan Matrix style patch there is no gel and the patch is very similar to mine which is made by Apotex Corp. where the patch basically looks like a giant bandaid minus the gauze. Once the protective shield (clear) is removed all you are left with is a patch that consists of adhesive mixed with the fentanyl (I believe) and the backing which is beige in color that becomes the out side or top side of the patch.
So if the instructions in the product state that once applied you can take a shower or bath, but then also say do not expose the patch to heat as this could potentially release more fentanyl and lead to a possible OD?? And Eagle post boasts, how being in the hot water of a hot tub is a good way to abuse the patch (again I must restate that his post was referring to the Mylan's Matrix patches, and not mine which to my eyes look to be the same). If by chance there is a distinct difference between the two please educate me however, again I'll restate that the instructions in mine DO say, bath and shower OK, but heat is NOT.
Anyone care to take a gander?
(I know it a long question which could have been written much shorter, but I would rather ask a long winder question, then a shorter one that would invoke more questions and possible more (new) threads similar in nature, by 10 other people
Thanks!
The apotex patches kick ass. I have always liked the sticker patches better.... I like Mylans even better... I have always been afraid of the gel patches.... I've had one pop on me while I was asleep.. I guess I am lucky to be here.... but I likie the idea of the Matrix formulation rather than some gel.....
painenduser
Bluelighter
Guy, I would like to thank you both for the replies, however I feel I owe a little more of an explanation as I really did not get the answer / response I was looking for.
MartinFn, please understand, that my intent has always been to fully use the patches as directed and in no way am I looking to abuse them to get high. I probably should have made that a little more clear in my original post. The purpose of the post was to avoid the possibility of me doing something that actually inadvertently cause an abuse (if thats even the correct way to explain it at this point.)
So my question still kind of stands, my point is NOT to abuse these in anyway or use them in a way that may cause more medicine to enter my system faster then it should, so I guess I need to sum up the question from what I wrote above. (Disposition if you feel that this should be in a new thread plz let me know, personally I think it should stay here as it goes with my original topic of trying to learn about the patches since I am new to them). What I am trying to understand is that they say that while you are wearing the patch do not expose them to heat, as this could cause an over dose and to contact poison control or go to your ER immediately, however, they also say that when the patch is on, you can take a shower, or bath as normal. Nowhere does it mention to remove the patch prior to doing such and event, infact in I recall correctly it states not to take to patch off exepct to change it and if you do you must replace it with a new patch and restart your 72 hours from that time forward. Like most I like a hot shower and hot bath and they can take 20 minutes or so. Would that not be the same as exposing them to heat? Please can some one clear this up for me?? Thanks
MartinFn, please understand, that my intent has always been to fully use the patches as directed and in no way am I looking to abuse them to get high. I probably should have made that a little more clear in my original post. The purpose of the post was to avoid the possibility of me doing something that actually inadvertently cause an abuse (if thats even the correct way to explain it at this point.)
So my question still kind of stands, my point is NOT to abuse these in anyway or use them in a way that may cause more medicine to enter my system faster then it should, so I guess I need to sum up the question from what I wrote above. (Disposition if you feel that this should be in a new thread plz let me know, personally I think it should stay here as it goes with my original topic of trying to learn about the patches since I am new to them). What I am trying to understand is that they say that while you are wearing the patch do not expose them to heat, as this could cause an over dose and to contact poison control or go to your ER immediately, however, they also say that when the patch is on, you can take a shower, or bath as normal. Nowhere does it mention to remove the patch prior to doing such and event, infact in I recall correctly it states not to take to patch off exepct to change it and if you do you must replace it with a new patch and restart your 72 hours from that time forward. Like most I like a hot shower and hot bath and they can take 20 minutes or so. Would that not be the same as exposing them to heat? Please can some one clear this up for me?? Thanks
Durogesic patch:matrix style. Duragesic patch:gel type patch. Well, i think that Janssen stopped the duragesic production, i don't know if the gel patches are in the market anymore, maybe the Watson continues..Anyway, the fact is that an 100 patch (Durogesic)contains 16,8mg..a 50 one 8,4mg i think..I talk only about the Durogesic brand, a Mylan (100)contains 10,2mg, i think. When the durogesic turns from gel to matrix, i noticed that:the patch sticks more better on your skin, and i take more relief from the gel style..I've tried and other brands,and IMO the durogesic are the best. Haven't tried the Apotex brand, and i wish that they work best for you, my friend..the things will gonna be allright for you..
MartinFn
MartinFn
Wow, i can't fuckin believe it, we post our replies at EXACTLY the same time..very rare..But anyway, to answer your question. I think that you can have a 20 min. hot shower, but don't make it as hot as every time, and of course don't throw the water to the patch area, well, you know, for "just in case" thing, heh, if i were you, i would make it not 20 min, 10 min. The water not too hot, etc., you're a smart person, i'm sure you get it, mate..hope you get the relief you deserve..
MartinFn
MartinFn
painenduser
Bluelighter
Yep, I sure do Martin, thanks so much mate! It just seemed to me that the directions kind of contradicted itself, especially after having read Eagles post on how to abuse them, which I certainly have no plans on doing because like you said, I value my pain relief far more then I do any euphoria or high you can get from them. I just don't get how people can go so nuts abusing these things when 1. they can kill you and 2. what doesn't kill you after you have your fun with it, will certainly give you one hell of a withdraw! To me I just see no fun in that!
To everyone who has participated in this thread, thank you very much, it has been very informative and I learned an awful lot from you and will continue to do so down the road. I hope to also help some of you out if I can. This thread has been very informational as well as fun, however, I do believe that all good things must come to an end, and so having said that, Disposition, please at your convenience, feel free and close this thread.
Thanks again too all!
To everyone who has participated in this thread, thank you very much, it has been very informative and I learned an awful lot from you and will continue to do so down the road. I hope to also help some of you out if I can. This thread has been very informational as well as fun, however, I do believe that all good things must come to an end, and so having said that, Disposition, please at your convenience, feel free and close this thread.
Thanks again too all!
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
no problems, painenduser. glad it's been educational.
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