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Doing shrooms at 15.

I really don't care about people saying: 'I did this and that and survived / it was fine'. That is not proof of anything! It says nothing about the potential risks that you do mess yourself up. It's super weak anecdotal evidence which is NOT evidence. Taking mushrooms has made a huge impact in my life and I started at 18. I am thankful I did not try it sooner, it would have messed with my life before I would have been able to deal with it properly. I would say regarding personality development which is of course closely associated with brain development, you should not do it until you are 18. And also because of the phase in your life where you are not really finished with puberty. It may be an arbitrary age to call someone grown up but let that be a useful arbitrary line to draw because it also designates the transition to another phase in your life where you move out and go get a job or a college degree or whatever.

Yes I really do recommend you don't trip before 18, even if you get an opportunity to be alone and undisturbed. And saying you are mature for your age is not an argument I fall for. Far too many people say that, but no one can take a step back from themselves and make a proper judgement of that until you are a little older and can look back on your development.
And how did you deduct that he's able to take shrooms being 18? Why not 19? Why not 20? Why not 17 and 5 months?

How is that proveful, or backed up by anything else than your own opinion - which, IMO, isn't any better than what others say by 'I did shrooms being 16 and I'm fine'.

PS: Sorry if it sounds offensive. It's not my intention.
 
You know I had a largeee paragraph written here about how it's so impossible to tell you if you should do magic mushrooms at 15...But I had a little revelation just now. If I say anything at all about what you should be worried about, then I'm really doing nothing but exacerbating the only risk your taking by taking mushrooms at your age..Having a scary, sad, confusing, awful time. That last message I almost said was just spreading fear, because somehow my brain was assuming that I'm somehow better than you and can handle my psychedelic experiences. So if you and your friend giggle when you smoke weed, you'll probbably both LOVE mushrooms..They wont make your brain bleed, you wont trip when you crack your back. Oh and the only flashbaccks I get whatsoever have to do with getting arrested tripping...
 
Personally. My first time on shrooms ironically was in next to the exact same situation. We were 15, and we tried them in my friends basement with his parents home. Do NOT try this, the first thought yall have about someone waking up or hearing you or anything is going to send you somewhere you don't want to.
I can't tell you not to do it, but unless you feel 100 percent about it and have done amazing amounts of research and feel you are really ready, I would suggest not to.
 
And how did you deduct that he's able to take shrooms being 18? Why not 19? Why not 20? Why not 17 and 5 months?


I'd also like to know his scientifical and not-anecdotal reasons for saying 18 and not 17 and a half.
 
No, you are too young. Wait until you are at about 20 where your brain is fully developed.

I am not saying anything bad will happen. Just that the chances are bigger.

Not only physiologically but psychologically. I started using pot and psychs too young IMO. I was 16, and I should have waited. There are some things that can happen that you can't undo; and they may have a profoundly negative impact on your young social life.

LSDMDMA&10157208 said:
i dun tripped at sixteen and i iz fine
eat an eighth or gtfo.

He's not.

I really don't care about people saying: 'I did this and that and survived / it was fine'. That is not proof of anything! It says nothing about the potential risks that you do mess yourself up. It's super weak anecdotal evidence which is NOT evidence. Taking mushrooms has made a huge impact in my life and I started at 18. I am thankful I did not try it sooner, it would have messed with my life before I would have been able to deal with it properly. I would say regarding personality development which is of course closely associated with brain development, you should not do it until you are 18. And also because of the phase in your life where you are not really finished with puberty. It may be an arbitrary age to call someone grown up but let that be a useful arbitrary line to draw because it also designates the transition to another phase in your life where you move out and go get a job or a college degree or whatever.

Yes I really do recommend you don't trip before 18, even if you get an opportunity to be alone and undisturbed. And saying you are mature for your age is not an argument I fall for. Far too many people say that, but no one can take a step back from themselves and make a proper judgement of that until you are a little older and can look back on your development.

Tripping in a situation where you have to be careful not to be caught is also by definition a no no. This is another reason, not really related to your age, to wait until you have a proper opportunity.

What we are talking about here are golden rules in the field of tripping on psychedelics, called Set & Setting. Please if you don't want to take advice from someone like me, read up on set and setting and connect the dots why what you describe can be considered a bad Set (mindset) as well as a bad Setting.

I understand you might be very excited about this but do not neglect to consider the messy shit you can get into rushing things. Wait till you're a bit older and move out (or make it clear you make your own decisions as an adult by then) and experiment with mushrooms in freedom. You will thank yourself for it.

Very thorough post on the matter. I agree with all of it; wise words that should be taken into consideration.
 
In order for you to fully appreciate the shroom experience, you will want to turn up the music or laugh out loud. Worrying about sleeping parents is NOT the optimal environment.

Save it for a day you can get outside for a solid 6 hours, and you'll thank me. Keep the iPod charged and bring a water bottle, because you won't be in Kansas anymore.

This. This is all that has to be said.

I haven't read through the whole thread but I'm sure there's been plenty of people already criticizing you for taking them at a young age. And I agree, but if you're like most youngins, you're not going to listen to us about that anyways.
So above all, be safe. And that includes finding a safe setting, where you won't need to worry about anything or anyone. You'll thank us for this after.
 
And how did you deduct that he's able to take shrooms being 18? Why not 19? Why not 20? Why not 17 and 5 months?

How is that proveful, or backed up by anything else than your own opinion - which, IMO, isn't any better than what others say by 'I did shrooms being 16 and I'm fine'.

PS: Sorry if it sounds offensive. It's not my intention.

I already explained that in the post but it seems you don't understand: yes it's all arbitrary, which makes it opposed to proof of anything or perhaps guarantee is a better word. But let's just say that it is hard to tell how you are developing and if you are ready so I am saying draw the line at 18, which usually designates the transition to adolescence giving you another role in your own life. No waiting until 18 is not a guarantee either I am not saying that but given the way people tend to develop over age I just feel it is best to wait until 18 to be sure.

19 or 20 is of course fine to be EXTRA sure but I understand if people don't want to wait and wait until it feels like they are guaranteed a good outcome because there is never a guarantee. 17 and 5 months could work if you are so inclined and REALLY lose your patience but realize that there is a big difference between 15 and 18. It is a much bigger difference than between 30 and 33.

Actually, I think you should not wait until you are about 25! That is too late in my opinion. Because while psychedelics can mess with your sense of identity, if you have an integrated identity it can reintegrate freshly and updated after the trip is over and you can process it. Around the age of 25, some developments of brain architecture stop and while in another sense you never stop developing at that point the foundation is laid and it is much harder to change it fundamentally.
I believe psychedelics have a place between 18-25, best of all in the early 20s... to put your identity into perspective regarding a bigger picture. To give you a sense of what life is about, not the answer to life!! But just a feeling of the meaning of pure and deeper Being. I think those are invaluable lessons that are best integrated before you turn 25. But like I keep saying: not too soon either.

~~~~

About the waiting until 19 or 20 or later: it really couldn't hurt to do that but it is like we did when I was volunteering to inform people about drugs at parties. We were called 'peers' doing that and the reason is that even though it was government funded the message was not 'don't do drugs', it was 'if you are gonna do drugs anyway do it responsibly'.
One of the most common questions was: how long should you wait in between MDMA use? The actual answer looking at serotonin levels etc is at least 6 months, but we advised people to wait about 1.5-2 months because at least that could be considered feasible or realistic as opposed to waiting 6 months. At least that is something people can live with. It's basically the same arbitrary thing: why not 1 month then, or 3 weeks? Well you can do that and you'll live but it's best to draw the line somewhere and keep it within a range that is deemed responsible using the evidence we got in that program.

~~~~

Some people mostly see sensory disturbances on mushrooms and acid and it does not get in the way of anything, but a lot of other people get a mirror shoved in their faced and are forced to take a long hard look and realize things about their own lives and see the dynamics of different elements and the way their identity has formed and how it relates to the world.
I have always been mature for my age, mostly because of 2 reasons: I have tested to be very intelligent, skipped a grade and even before that I was always surrounded by older people / adults who talked with me and treated me like I was older because of the first reason. But even so, I know that at 15, my identity was still forming as I am sure is entirely normal for the far majority of people even if they involve themselves with things of an adult level. And based on all this I just recommend against meddling with your identity and exploring the depths of your psyche etc. Again, this is not necessarily a consequence of all trips, but it definitely happens often enough to want to avoid this before you feel like having become an integrated person that goes into transition towards adolescence.

No, I am not trying to be dogmatic. This is one opinion of one person. But if you think I have weak reasoning to say all of this I would disagree.

~~~~

At some point, I will be merging this with the "Age & Psychedelics" thread so be prepared, TS.
 
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What I'm saying is just that one cannot draw a line at 18. It's not backed up by anything. But we can't say whether OP is mature or not. He has to answer this himself: if he's mature, I think he'd wait some more time, if he's not, let's hope he'll wait anyway, lol.

I do get your point, but I think you may be too serious with yourself.

I for one, don't take my life that seriously, and I'm happy about the choice I've made to try 4-HO-MET at age slighty above what OP is asking of. I may be wrong, but I think that not trying drugs (psychedelics to be certain), or trying them too late/too early may be just wasting your own slice of life.

It took me a while to grow up to trying a psychedelic. One year, maybe. Before I've taken it, I did a lot of research about psychedelics, life, death, thinking and stuff like that. It helped me, it really did, although it couldn't prepare me in 100% for the experience (and I thank for that - what kind of experience it'd be if I knew what is going to happen?).

I believe that if one seeks psychedelics, it's THE time. It's time when one should start, I don't know how to say this in English... One should start thinking about himself that one day he'll be ready, with everything set perfect, and his mind shall be clear that day just before taking anything.

Damn, I'm sorry if my post doesn't make sense now - it's kinda late. I'm going sleep. I hope you understand me :)
 
I understand.

The time you start seeking psychedelics or find them are in my opinion not a sign of the stars. I don't believe that LSD finds you instead of the other way around. If you start seeking psychedelics you probably became familiarized with them because of something and intrigued because of the fascinating nature of certain stories.

I'm glad you are happy to have made the decision to try 4-HO-MET at the age you did but again this does not an argument make, for others to do the same. Also even though 4-HO-MET is very closely related to 4-HO-DMT chemically, I found 4-HO-MET to be forgiving even at more than double a normal dose plus combined with cannabis with almost no tolerance. But mushrooms tend to be serious to me, magical and profound but just about the least forgiving psychedelic I can think of. I know this is not true for everyone, but I have heard enough people agree not to consider this an idiosyncratic reaction.

Maybe the length of my posts or the elaborate way I try to deploy my argument makes it seem like I take it all very seriously but I am not suggesting that I think any 15 year old is signing up for soul rape. I have repeatedly said, there are no guarantees whatsoever. The OP or any other person could be fine, or better than fine... if they decide to trip. All I am talking about is potentials and before adulthood for me it would not be acceptable.

And 18 is an imaginary line to draw yes, but not entirely. At a nominal rate it is the age when you are done with high school and expected to become self-dependent and self-responsible. Do you think this is random? I think there is sound reasoning behind it from research done in the field of psychology that says that the average person has their hormones and self-image settled down a bit and are usually ready to make the next steps in development.

Yes yes I KNOW, that is about the average person. Some may take longer and some may be mature earlier. Though 3 years? Come on, that is not statistically that likely. But I also already explained that it is hard to decide about yourself that you are mature or not because you are you. So relying on an average, an imaginary line, seems like a wise thing to do. Not established, not fact, not something to get all serious about... but if you want my opinion, I just like to explain myself rather than try to convince the whole world, why I think what I say is a smart thing to do.

And you are entitled to your own opinion and that is fine. And I wish you a good night's sleep. :)
 
And 18 is an imaginary line to draw yes, but not entirely. At a nominal rate it is the age when you are done with high school and expected to become self-dependent and self-responsible. Do you think this is random? I think there is sound reasoning behind it from research done in the field of psychology that says that the average person has their hormones and self-image settled down a bit and are usually ready to make the next steps in development.

Yes yes I KNOW, that is about the average person. Some may take longer and some may be mature earlier. Though 3 years? Come on, that is not statistically that likely. But I also already explained that it is hard to decide about yourself that you are mature or not because you are you. So relying on an average, an imaginary line, seems like a wise thing to do. Not established, not fact, not something to get all serious about... but if you want my opinion, I just like to explain myself rather than try to convince the whole world, why I think what I say is a smart thing to do.

I've been thinking about this, and am undecided. The concept of maturity is something I grapple with, and will not claim to truly understand. I'm not so much concerned about a negative experience so much as the possible consequences of positive ones.

On the one hand, depending on how the individual in question's life is going, a change in perspective may realign for the better, on the the other hand, I must weigh the possibility that taking shit too seriously and chasing the white rabbit as is often a phase of use may steer them away from a decent life's path. If the subject were already alienated, getting caught up in the abstract world of psychedelia may indeed amplify this alienation, or the focus on these useless matters distract them and greatly decrease their options on exiting this period of life. Then again, they may well grow out of this period by the time they graduate and be ready to move on to proper things, whereas if they waited and become distracted while in Uni or something and things fall apart, there won't be the stability of that younger period to serve as a sort of net to catch them.

I suppose the logical conclusion when faced with such unpredictability would be yours, to wait until one was mature enough to understand the gravity of their decision (not that you can really know if you're at the level, but waiting will only increase your chances of being there). Yet I believe that one's adolescence is the time to go out on a limb, since this is the period of learning and self-development when familial and societal safety nets are strongest. Thus I still cannot bring myself to advise one way or the other.
 
I must weigh the possibility that taking shit too seriously and chasing the white rabbit as is often a phase of use may steer them away from a decent life's path. If the subject were already alienated, getting caught up in the abstract world of psychedelia may indeed amplify this alienation

This is my concern. I feel at an older age, you are more comfortable in your own skin and your path/person is more established. Taking psychedelics in the awkward stage that is the teen years can cement that awkwardness and make social alienation a serious problem.

As you say, if on a bad path, psychedelics can make the path turn to a better direction. If already happy with life and your path, I wouldn't risk it.

Of course this is all just personal thoughts, no one can answer this question. Even you can't make an accurate judgement on this.

With hindsight being 20/20, if I could go back I would have waited. I guess that's all I'm saying, but I am not you..
 
I really don't care about people saying: 'I did this and that and survived / it was fine'. That is not proof of anything! It says nothing about the potential risks that you do mess yourself up. It's super weak anecdotal evidence which is NOT evidence. Taking mushrooms has made a huge impact in my life and I started at 18. I am thankful I did not try it sooner, it would have messed with my life before I would have been able to deal with it properly.

Solipsis, not to be a pain here, but that's just as anecdotal as everyone else. I'm not aware of any actual science behind mushrooms causing determintal damage to CNS or brain development, or even hormone levels after the half-life (depends on species, no?). That said, it's also not my area of expertise (the neuro chem behind psychedelics and it's effects on development), so feel free to correct me if there are any good studies out there.

Obviously the most cautionary advice would be to not do it until you are 18. That being the case, I started my first ventures into psychedelic space at 15 (acid) and shrooms at 16. I never do them often or take a trip lightly. What others are saying about your setting is right, you don't want your first experience to be one where you are worried about making noises etc. If you aren't in the right mindset to be tripping, then don't. If you feel you are, ultimately you are the one to make that choice - just be as safe and responsible about those choices as you can.
 
This is my concern. I feel at an older age, you are more comfortable in your own skin and your path/person is more established. Taking psychedelics in the awkward stage that is the teen years can cement that awkwardness and make social alienation a serious problem.

As you say, if on a bad path, psychedelics can make the path turn to a better direction. If already happy with life and your path, I wouldn't risk it.

Of course this is all just personal thoughts, no one can answer this question. Even you can't make an accurate judgement on this.

With hindsight being 20/20, if I could go back I would have waited. I guess that's all I'm saying, but I am not you..

I didn't start with psychs 'till I was 18 myself, so this matter is purely academic to me. I do have to say though that one's path/person is not necessarily more established, I think due to unhealthy coping mechanisms I had for my issues when younger I had a much more definite sense of personhood. Whereas now I often can't even find a "self" to grab hold of (of course, destroying the very foundations of the self, the basic assumptions handed down to us by society to shape our interaction with the world was always a dream of mine when I was younger. LOL, I was one of those of odd people always captivated by Lovecraftian stories of knowledge-induced madness, and trasncendent understanding that would fundamentally change the subjective world the mind interacts with.).
 
Wait til new year's it will be more fun. lulz... If you want to be cautious, which you seem to be, take 2.5 grams. If you are a bad ass type take 4 grams. I am not getting in on the age debate. Just treating you like a man, a young man. Be safe, don't do ignorant shit.
 
Not only physiologically but psychologically. I started using pot and psychs too young IMO. I was 16, and I should have waited. There are some things that can happen that you can't undo; and they may have a profoundly negative impact on your young social life.



He's not.



Very thorough post on the matter. I agree with all of it; wise words that should be taken into consideration.
wat
 
dwayne said:
If you mean to suggest doing shrooms on New Years Eve, for anyone and especially a first timer that could be an easy ticket to a freakout... shrooms go very VERY badly with crowds of any kind let alone rowdy drunks.

If it's a small party of close friends, and multiple people are dosing and everybody's drinking it can be a very good time for first timers. Or so my observations have been. It won't be deep or anything, but it can be a delightful giggle-fest. Play some games, watch some movies, whatevs.
 
^ Agreement, I've pleasantly tripped at a few small scale parties and had a blast. Like Never Knows Best put it, nothing deep, but lots of shallow, trippy fun. Obviously YMMV, especially if you are one to have heightened anxiety while intoxicated.
 
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