Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
if cannabis does and doesn't produce halluciations - surely zolpidem when snorted should be in the same class of drugs as it provides intense hallucinations?
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does zolpidem count as a psychedelic drug?
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KalmZephyr
Greenlighter
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Agreed.
Ambien, for a friend of mine at least, produced frank hallucinations (e.g. hallucinations that one cannot discern from real objects) whether from some sort of act of zolpidem on brain receptors, or its mild hypnotic/sedative effects..? pretty trippy though. even orally.
Ambien, for a friend of mine at least, produced frank hallucinations (e.g. hallucinations that one cannot discern from real objects) whether from some sort of act of zolpidem on brain receptors, or its mild hypnotic/sedative effects..? pretty trippy though. even orally.
BottleOfOxy
Bluelighter
No offense but fuck that.
A) Zolpidem doesn't deserve to be a psychedelic, first and formost haha.
B) Zolpidem is a benzodiazpine! Everything in that family are anti-psychotics, the antithesis of any psychedelic
C) Just because things get trippy doesn't really mean you're trippin, when you get drunk shit trails and your vision gets blurred. Does that make alcohol a psychedelic? (rhetorical btw)
D) Zolpidem works on the GABA receptors in your brain like any benzo does, psychedelics usually work through other methods like serotonin receptors in your brain and I THINK (don't know all that much about bio-psych, so correct me if i'm wrong here) that GABA receptors aren't in the same area of the brain as the area that psychs usually work on. THIS LAST PART, LIKE I SAID, I'M REALLY NOT SURE ABOUT AND DON'T FEEL LIKE LOOKIN UP RIGHT NOW 8)
p.s. I dont know what you're tryin to say about weed but you can trip on weed if you do A TONNN, i was on a bus for like 20 hours going somewhere and i was all drunk and had a shit ton of canni-cookies for the trip and what not; each bag had like 5ish and i sat on them by accident. COMPLETELY POWDERIZED, hahah, but i couldn't sleep so I said fuck it and was mowwin them down like a horse eating out of a bag of grain. I COULD NOT SLEEP, AT ALL and i was fuckin on one, weird little hallucinations, but they're there.
A) Zolpidem doesn't deserve to be a psychedelic, first and formost haha.
B) Zolpidem is a benzodiazpine! Everything in that family are anti-psychotics, the antithesis of any psychedelic
C) Just because things get trippy doesn't really mean you're trippin, when you get drunk shit trails and your vision gets blurred. Does that make alcohol a psychedelic? (rhetorical btw)
D) Zolpidem works on the GABA receptors in your brain like any benzo does, psychedelics usually work through other methods like serotonin receptors in your brain and I THINK (don't know all that much about bio-psych, so correct me if i'm wrong here) that GABA receptors aren't in the same area of the brain as the area that psychs usually work on. THIS LAST PART, LIKE I SAID, I'M REALLY NOT SURE ABOUT AND DON'T FEEL LIKE LOOKIN UP RIGHT NOW 8)
p.s. I dont know what you're tryin to say about weed but you can trip on weed if you do A TONNN, i was on a bus for like 20 hours going somewhere and i was all drunk and had a shit ton of canni-cookies for the trip and what not; each bag had like 5ish and i sat on them by accident. COMPLETELY POWDERIZED, hahah, but i couldn't sleep so I said fuck it and was mowwin them down like a horse eating out of a bag of grain. I COULD NOT SLEEP, AT ALL and i was fuckin on one, weird little hallucinations, but they're there.
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Venrak
Bluelight Crew
Just because something can cause hallucinations does not make it a psychedelic.
BottleOfOxy
Bluelighter
^that
Detrevni
Bluelighter
^Good answer. I'm pretty particular on the definition although I wouldn't say psych's are exclusively serotogenic in action, for example salvia.
lolusername
Bluelighter
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You should get your facts straight before you answer threads like this.
Zolpidem isn't psychedelic but it certainly is hallucinogenic.
Sapnabernis
Greenlighter
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I am strongly disagreeing with your facts. Sorry for that :D
B - Zolpidem is not benzodiazepine, it does not have benzo-diazepine ring in its structure. And about antipsychotics - benzodiazepines are not antipsychotics. Antipsychotics PREVENT hallucinations, while benzodiazepines, muscimol, zolpidem, zopiclone, alcohol - DO NOT. If you take antipsychotics with zolpidem or Amanita Muscaria - you will not have any visuals at all.
C - When you take alcohol, you don't get patterns flowing and growing from wallpapers all over the room, and floor waving like an ocean. On zolpidem - I+friends do.
D - Yes it works on GABA receptors, but Muscimol - active ingredient of Amanita Muscaria also works on GABA, and is considered psychedelic.
And finally, since on zolpidem you somehow doubt about reality of these patterns, feelings and visuals, it should stay somewhere between Dissociatives and Psychedelics, in my opinion. Because on Dissociatives - you can't tell the truth between visuals and material things, on Psychedelics - you can, and on zolpidem - you find stuff very interesting and amusing, but you are not like 'naturally' sure that things are real. More it is like trippy dream.
I don't think the interpretation of dissocation is right, IMO it's rather the amnestic effect that removes your experience from awareness. Other than that it seems more like an oneirogen with hypnopompic effects and in other respects almost a deleriant.
Agreed with the 'trippy dream' sentiment, but psychedelics and hallucinogens are defined differently - the exact difference is the same reason why zolpidem may act as a hallucinogen but not a psychedelic. I'm not going to explain it here, just google that stuff or something. Why we do host discussion of deleriants on PD but not other non-psychedelic hallucinogens like the Z-drugs is arbitrary.
Anyway zopiclone discussion has recently been moved to OD but I will leave this here as a stub for the why's of classification and people varying interpretations.
Agreed with the 'trippy dream' sentiment, but psychedelics and hallucinogens are defined differently - the exact difference is the same reason why zolpidem may act as a hallucinogen but not a psychedelic. I'm not going to explain it here, just google that stuff or something. Why we do host discussion of deleriants on PD but not other non-psychedelic hallucinogens like the Z-drugs is arbitrary.
Anyway zopiclone discussion has recently been moved to OD but I will leave this here as a stub for the why's of classification and people varying interpretations.
BottleOfOxy
Bluelighter
...i think that is what i meant to say, it does produce hallucinations, but is not in the same class as other hallucinogenic chemicals. Which is how i interpreted the OP's question.... regardless i agree with your above quote. And thought I kinda said that.... and like my alcohol example: liquor can cause "hallucinations" but obviously is not a psychedelic either.
Dont' apologize! I'm here to learn too! and you're right I was wrong I assumed that it was a benzo because i know that Zolpidem works through the same GABA receptors (idk the specific one).
And if benzos aren't considered antipsycotics (i know that they are used in the treatment of ptsd/bipolar disorder in a friend of mine, and i thought in some cases of schizophrenia too; though i cannot speak of the latter condition out of experience) then what are? Are medications like haldol considered STRICT antipsycotics because they act through dopamine blockage? Rather than through enhancing GABA effects?
Sorry to lead the thread astray but i'd like to know whats up too.
Z-drugs are hypnotics and sedatives, not neuroleptics. In other words, drugs like zolpidem and zopiclone make you less anxious and put you to sleep. Neuroleptics however go further than that and deeply flatten thought and mood. They are used to treat psychosis, while sedatives like benzo's may only be used in psychotic people to treat symptoms like agitation. That's the big difference.
GABA-ergic drugs and/or ones affecting BZD (benzo) -receptors have an inhibiting (calming) effect on brain activity in a very general way. However paradoxically, also inhibition can be inhibited causing the typical uninhibited behavior seen in drunk or benzo'ed people.
Antipsychotics typically put the brakes on dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin action which is more harsh and direct than the easing effect of GABA agonism.
So what you say about haldol is more or less true, but there are also atypical antipsychotics that are still not classified as sedatives. The reason they would be atypical may be because they belong to an uncommon class of chemicals or because they have an alternative mechanism of action. For it to be a neuroleptic it has to have application in supressing psychosis though. That GABAergics are sedating and ease psychosis doesn't make them antipsychotics.
Or for example: A poison 'x' can kill someone and in that way certainly stop a psychosis but does that make the poison 'x' an antipsychotic?
GABA-ergic drugs and/or ones affecting BZD (benzo) -receptors have an inhibiting (calming) effect on brain activity in a very general way. However paradoxically, also inhibition can be inhibited causing the typical uninhibited behavior seen in drunk or benzo'ed people.
Antipsychotics typically put the brakes on dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin action which is more harsh and direct than the easing effect of GABA agonism.
So what you say about haldol is more or less true, but there are also atypical antipsychotics that are still not classified as sedatives. The reason they would be atypical may be because they belong to an uncommon class of chemicals or because they have an alternative mechanism of action. For it to be a neuroleptic it has to have application in supressing psychosis though. That GABAergics are sedating and ease psychosis doesn't make them antipsychotics.
Or for example: A poison 'x' can kill someone and in that way certainly stop a psychosis but does that make the poison 'x' an antipsychotic?
!!4iV4HF9R34g
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In terms of physiological and biochemical composition, mechanisms, and effects, I say no.
In terms of psychedelic being something that manifests your mind outside, who's to say?
Maybe those weird hallucinations have deep symbolic association, but maybe it's just nonsense lol.
Not much to add I guess lol.
In terms of psychedelic being something that manifests your mind outside, who's to say?
Maybe those weird hallucinations have deep symbolic association, but maybe it's just nonsense lol.
Not much to add I guess lol.
BottleOfOxy
Bluelighter
Or for example: A poison 'x' can kill someone and in that way certainly stop a psychosis but does that make the poison 'x' an antipsychotic?
^this sums up my assumptions and thank you for clearing that up for me Solipsis. I'll admit when i'm wrong! my bad... 8)
Survived Abortion
Bluelighter
That's not really the way it works. It doesn't "inhibit it's own inhibition". Inhibition of brain activity doesn't = inhibition of social behaviours. The paradoxical effect that you described is due to the inhibition of certain aspects of brain activity causing the removal of particular egoic constructs (related to social "norms" and acceptable conduct) normally upheld by the excited mind. By inhibiting the probability of action potentials firing, a drug like alcohol has the outward effect of uninhibiting social restraints.
The elicitation of hallucinogenic manifestations are not a result of the drug inhibiting it's own inhibition. Rather, it would seem - given that other GABAergic drugs do not produce this effect - that it is the balance between various types of inhibition exhibited at different receptor subtypes. This is apparent in the fact that zolpidem is predominantly a highly selective GABA-a1 subtype receptor agonist, whereas other GABA drugs (such as alcohol) act less preferentially and elsewhere. Because different subtypes are expressed in different concentrations in different areas of the brain controlling different types of brain activity, it stands to reason that GABA drugs acting on different GABA receptor subtypes effect varying outcomes on subjective mental activity.
pofacedhoe
Bluelight Crew
untrue- its not a benzo and also benzo's are not antipsychotics so yer talkin crap mate
I think you got me wrong, what I meant was inhibition of social inhibition, in other words what you describe but I formulated it in a confusing way.
Thanks for clearing that up for everyone, I didn't even begin to try and cover GABAergic mechanisms of hallucinogenic effects, frankly I don't know much at all about it. Muscimol is one of the most interesting ones in this respect IMO. I wouldn't know what can get more trippy than that without putting you out like a light.
I have never had hallucinations with it and I've taken 62.5-75mg Ambien CR about 10 times and over 120mg Ambien 3 times. Talking about disinhibition one time I had an orgy with 3 17 year old girls the day after taking about 150mg Ambien(I met them at the pool; one of them started it after she noticed me looking at her).
How are benzodiazepines antopsychotics??? I've had hallucinations after 4mg Klonopin, weird thoughts after snorting 20mg Sonata, and have been rambling and inchoherent after 100+mg. Ambien.
How are benzodiazepines antopsychotics??? I've had hallucinations after 4mg Klonopin, weird thoughts after snorting 20mg Sonata, and have been rambling and inchoherent after 100+mg. Ambien.
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