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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Bupe Does suboxone raise or lower tolerance to oxycodone

B

Bag84

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 17, 2020
Messages
63
I’ve been searching bluelight for an answer and haven’t Bsen able to find one so I finally decided to post.

My history: I’ve been racing oxycodone for several years. Had a few months stint with fent laced pills but quit that now I’m back on plain old oxy, I get 180 pills a month. Dosage varies from 20mg to 50mg depending on how I feel. But generally take between 50 and 80mg a day. There were times I would take 200mg a day but haven’t in a few months. For the most part I take about 80mg a day.

I’ve had a stint on suboxone back in 2019 for a year. Then weaned off. I’ve taken it a very few times since (I’ve stock piled Over 100 since I didn’t take nearly the amount they prescribed which was 12mg a day which I felt was way too high so I only took 2mg a day). I take it maybe once a month now at low doses just to get me to my next perscripton but never for more than a few days.

So now to the question. When I quit suboxone the first time I weaned off and got back on oxycodone cause suboxone was not touching my pain. When I got back on oxy 15-20mg was enough to even give me a buzz at times. So my question is if I were to stay in suboxone for a few weeks at 2mg a day or less. When I go back to oxycodone will that raise or lower my tolerance, or will it have no affect at all? That’s my question and history but I’d also like to know in general does suboxone lower or raise tolerance and if it does how long does it normally take?
 
I’m not asking whether I would need more while I’m on suboxone. I’m only planning on staying on it for a few days then I’m going to take nothing for a few days until the suboxone is out of my system. I’m wondering when the suboxone Clears my system how will it affect the way my oxy works going forward.
 
Bag84 said:
I’m not asking whether I would need more while I’m on suboxone. I’m only planning on staying on it for a few days then I’m going to take nothing for a few days until the suboxone is out of my system. I’m wondering when the suboxone Clears my system how will it affect the way my oxy works going forward.
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everyone is different. all you can really do is take your dose of oxy, wait 25 minutes and if you're not where you wanna be take more. i took 40mg of hydrocodone after 30 days inpatient treatment, 7 day off of subs and it hit me like it normally did.
 
I have heard, and read on here, that it raises your tolerance. Even though buprenorphine is only a partial agonist it is still stronger than oxycodone. In other words even though oxy is a full agonist it is weaker......so it's going to take more oxy to get high .

If kratom can raise our tolerance to oxy bupe surely can. And kratom is a shitty weak opioid and it still raises our tolerance. Bupe wouldn't be any different.
 
Nurse Ratched said:
I have heard, and read on here, that it raises your tolerance. Even though buprenorphine is only a partial agonist it is still stronger than oxycodone. In other words even though oxy is a full agonist it is weaker......so it's going to take more oxy to get high .

If kratom can raise our tolerance to oxy bupe surely can. And kratom is a shitty weak opioid and it still raises our tolerance. Bupe wouldn't be any different.
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From my experience all opioids raise tolerance to all opiods. Partial or not, which opiod (and other) receptors are affected to which extent, most of this shit isn't really well understood and can depend on factors they often don't even consider but experience often varies from person to person, age, mood, metabolism in the moment (even nutrition. Eg I differently metabolize morphine on high protein diet).

There's naloxone inside. So who the fuck knows. You already have some experience? Opinion of someone else here isn't going to change that. I personally would stay away from these mixtures with naloxone. That's useless, evil shit similar to these combos with paracetamol lol. I would also stay away from buprenorphine.

Naloxone alone can definitely be super useful. I just wouldn't take it at the same time with an opioid agonists. Otherwise one can use it to fix sensitivity of and upregulate opiod receptors. IMO there's not much sense to use it as long as gradually weaning off works. Depending on one's goals it could make sense to use it in combo with eg prolonged release tablets (if there's nothing else available and one isn't IVing). For example what I occasionally do is intsead of reducing dosage, I reduce number of times per day I take my morphine. Taking it only once per day can help your body to adjust and prepare. Idea is to expose your self to mini withdrawals, and to slowly prolong the lentgth of period between doses. Normally one doesn't need naloxone for this, but one could use it to emulate the same experience if one is stuck with prolong release whatever.

Other than that it could also make sense to microdose naloxone for some time even after getting off opioids (to improve sensitivity and density of opioid receptors.). I would do this only if one feels stuck and depressed. But first steps I would recommend is increase physical activity (eg lifting weights few times per week, or resistance training) and adding more protein to diet (Stimulates metabolism, helps with hypogonadism plus most endogenous opioids are peptides).

Forgot to mention this, what decreases tolerance is decreaseing dosage for a while. You would need to estimate how high was suboxone dose compared to oxy. Try using this or similar: https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/~/media/Files/Corporate/general documents/Health Networks/WA Cancer and Palliative Care/How-to-use-the-Opioid-Conversion-Guide.pdf
Of course naloxone in suboxone complicates everything.

Besides that, yeah they probably affect different receptors differently so that too probably plays a role. Equvalent or higher dose may raise tolerance of MOR but decrease tolerance of other recetors. One mechanism something like this could work is for example some opioids could raise levels of dynorphine, which can act as an antagonist on morphine induced analgeisa (So antagonizes MOR?). Anyhow Important is your experience and how you feel.
 
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### said:
From my experience all opioids raise tolerance to all opiods. Partial or not, which opiod (and other) receptors are affected to which extent, most of this shit isn't really well understood and can depend on factors they often don't even consider but experience often varies from person to person, age, mood, metabolism in the moment (even nutrition. Eg I differently metabolize morphine on high protein diet).

There's naloxone inside. So who the fuck knows. You already have some experience? Opinion of someone else here isn't going to change that. I personally would stay away from these mixtures with naloxone. That's useless, evil shit similar to these combos with paracetamol lol. I would also stay away from buprenorphine.

Naloxone alone can definitely be super useful. I just wouldn't take it at the same time with an opioid agonists. Otherwise one can use it to fix sensitivity of and upregulate opiod receptors. IMO there's not much sense to use it as long as gradually weaning off works. Depending on one's goals it could make sense to use it in combo with eg prolonged released tablets (if there's nothing else available and one isn't IVing). For example what I occasionally do is intsead of reducing dosage, I reduce number of times per day I take my morphine. Taking it only once per day can help your body to adjust and prepare. Idea is to expose your self to mini withdrawals, and to slowly prolong the length of these. Normally one doesn't need naloxone for this, but one could use it to emulate the same experience if one is stuck with prolong release whatever.

Other than that it could also make sense to microdose naloxone for some time even after getting off opioids (to improve sensitivity and density of opioid receptors.). I would do this only if one feels stuck and depressed. But first steps I would recommend is increase physical activity (eg lifting weights few times per week, or resistance training) and adding more protein to diet (Stimulates metabolism, helps with hypogonadism plus most endogenous opioids are peptides).
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I looking into doing ULDN (ultra low dose naltrexone). I told my suboxone doctor that I don’t want to take suboxone anymore and I’m weaning off. I just don’t know how to bring it up and what to say. I want to lower my tolerance and that is the only thing I e read that actually does. But again I have no ideas how to bring it up. Should I just say I want to get off suboxone and ask for a prescription of naltrexone? Chances are she will give me 50mg tablets if she even agrees and then is have to dissolve it and measure it out to get to around 50 but I’m ok with that. My only thing is trying to convince her to to perscrbe it
 
This is just from personal experience. In my early using days when I couldn't get dope I would take 1-2mg of sub to hold the wd at bay. There was a few times after stopping subs for a few days and went back to oxy/dope I couldn't feel 80mg like I usually could.

In the short term it will definitely raise your tolerance
 
Bag84 said:
I looking into doing ULDN (ultra low dose naltrexone). I told my suboxone doctor that I don’t want to take suboxone anymore and I’m weaning off. I just don’t know how to bring it up and what to say. I want to lower my tolerance and that is the only thing I e read that actually does. But again I have no ideas how to bring it up. Should I just say I want to get off suboxone and ask for a prescription of naltrexone? Chances are she will give me 50mg tablets if she even agrees and then is have to dissolve it and measure it out to get to around 50 but I’m ok with that. My only thing is trying to convince her to to perscrbe it
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I'm pretty sure you can't take naltrexone alongside opioids, there's like a ten day window of no opioids before you can even start taking it. So your oxy would be out the window if you started taking naltrexone.

Someone feel free to fact check me if it works differently than this, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is.
 
deficiT said:
I'm pretty sure you can't take naltrexone alongside opioids, there's like a ten day window of no opioids before you can even start taking it. So your oxy would be out the window if you started taking naltrexone.

Someone feel free to fact check me if it works differently than this, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is.
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A lot of people reported that taking ultra low doses of naltrexone (under 100 micrograms) it actually lower your opioid tolerance by up to 70 percent. Anything over 100 micrograms will have a chance of putting you in precipitated withdrawal. There’s quite a few posts on here talking about it.
 
For me if I would take a low sub dose (2-4mg) for let’s say a week and then stop the sub for 18-24hr and do some heroin I could get loaded off less than it would have taken prior to the subs, but if you take high doses of subs it can definitely raise your tolerance too…pretty much in a nutshell to get back to getting loaded off less your gonna have to go through some type of wd….
 
Bag84 said:
I looking into doing ULDN (ultra low dose naltrexone). I told my suboxone doctor that I don’t want to take suboxone anymore and I’m weaning off. I just don’t know how to bring it up and what to say. I want to lower my tolerance and that is the only thing I e read that actually does. But again I have no ideas how to bring it up. Should I just say I want to get off suboxone and ask for a prescription of naltrexone? Chances are she will give me 50mg tablets if she even agrees and then is have to dissolve it and measure it out to get to around 50 but I’m ok with that. My only thing is trying to convince her to to perscrbe it
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I just read about ultra low dose naltrexone yesterday in this booklet, one of the ways they discussed administering it was topically. It was a fascinating read and the first time I’ve ever considered ingesting naloxone; ever. In super low doses it stokes the immune system, which is fascinating. I had only had negative connotations and seen bad long term experiences with suboxone and always seen it administered at high doses

the only positive use I thought there was for suboxone was a 5 day rapid taper to get off opioids other then that it seemed like chemical misery

sometimes the dose is everything

I’m going to find a way to try it out after a little more research.

 
jane douloureux said:
I just read about ultra low dose naltrexone yesterday in this booklet, one of the ways they discussed administering it was topically. It was a fascinating read and the first time I’ve ever considered ingesting naloxone; ever. In super low doses it stokes the immune system, which is fascinating. I had only had negative connotations and seen bad long term experiences with suboxone and always seen it administered at high doses
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Naltrexone and naloxone are two different substances, I think you might be confusing them somewhat. They are both mu-opioid antagonists, but they are used differently generally.
 
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A high dose of subs will definitely increase your tolerance. But 2mg is a low dose so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

There was a point where I lost my job and lived in a province that didn't have free pharmacare, so I had to pay for my suboxone out of pocket, which was pretty expensive, I was on 6mg at the time. I did the math and decided it would be cheaper to move to kratom, but was afraid my tolerance would stop the kratom from working, but it didn't! As little as 4g of kratom was able to take the place of 6mg of suboxone, which I was quite surprised by!

Now I live in a province with free pharmacare which is sweet, so 16mg of suboxone a day doesn't cost anything =D
 
deficiT said:
Naltrexone and naloxone are two different substances, I think you might confusing them somewhat. They are both mu-opioid antagonists, but they are used differently generally.
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Yeah no no clue only ever read low dose naltrexone day before yesterday and thought it was the same drug as suboxone which I thought was the same drug as part of narcan

not my area of expertise; at all

I never thought I’d take the subs and I know how to administer the narcan I figured that was all I needed to know

i have a nasal narcan kit in my glovebox

I want relief for my chronic pain though and if I have to actually learn about this and that they are two different substances (😵‍💫) to do that I will try and elevate my understanding here

so I can’t just take a super tiny slice of my friends sub to replicate low dose naltrexone? that was my plan for the week

ok did some research naltrexone is vivitrol you don’t see that one prescribed as often anymore around me as it was 10yrs ago when they were using it for alcohol and even obesity in that drug contrave I forgot existed until just reading about it again. I wonder what made the popularity fall off here in ny or if it was everywhere

hmm not going to be as easy to try low dose naltrexone as I thought ☹️
 
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deficiT said:
I'm pretty sure you can't take naltrexone alongside opioids, there's like a ten day window of no opioids before you can even start taking it. So your oxy would be out the window if you started taking naltrexone.

Someone feel free to fact check me if it works differently than this, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is.
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Well with suboxone you get slow release (IIRC) naloxone inside. And yeah I agree the idea is stupid. It was an experiment and it stuck, because money or whatever.
 
Bag84 said:
A lot of people reported that taking ultra low doses of naltrexone (under 100 micrograms) it actually lower your opioid tolerance by up to 70 percent. Anything over 100 micrograms will have a chance of putting you in precipitated withdrawal. There’s quite a few posts on here talking about it.
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Yes, but same can be achieved with dose reduction. IMO taking antagonists makes sesne either when one is weaning off and has approached ridiculous small doses, when you have already stopped to continue antagonizing opioid receptors with home to further increase density and sensitivity of receptor cells, or what I have mentioned above when one is stuck when long lasting opioids like buprenorphine, methadone, prolonged release morphine and similar. It could also make sense for people who's opioid receptors are messed up for other reasons.
 
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