Opioids Does it still count as detox/withdrawal if you take loperamide?

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Can anyone advise on sleep? I've been awake for almost 60 hours...
It's like my brain *forgot* how to do a sleep

P.S. The shadow men say "hi"!

 

[BadBoy377]

Well that fucking sucks. I hope they at least have the decency to leave you in peace when you're having one of your many shits.

Try distracting them. Point out the window when someone walks past and go 'ooh a meth head' they'll soon go pester someone else.

But not sleeping is awful. What you got on hand to use? For me some nitrazepam and a couple drams usually does the trick. Depends what other meds you're on though. Insomnia isn't funny.

Hope you get some rest soon,

BB

 

[KurtAurelius]

Can anyone advise on sleep? I've been awake for almost 60 hours...
It's like my brain *forgot* how to do a sleep

P.S. The shadow men say "hi"!

Any A2 agonist or GABA agent should bring more immediate relief.

I’m all for using more sustainable agents but if you are pressed for cash or acess, this far in, you’d only need a single 10mg Valium, 0.1-0.2mg clonidine or 300mg or so of pregabs.

You don’t want to be using anymore comfort stuff if you made it this far cold, the aim is to get that first night of sleep and go from there.

Sleep is KING. Life is not worth living without it.

The sustainable stuff would be Agmatine, CBG, Valerian Hops and Passion Flower (the range or tesco do a cheap as chip pack, I take 3 of them and it feels like 2-5mg Valium) Theanine.

400-800mg Theanine
50mg+ CBG
100mg Valerian Blend
1-3grams Agmatine

Would do the trick but I know may be hard to acess.

I know it may be the last thing you wish to do, but if you can force yourself, spend all of today as physically active as you can.

The shit thing about withdrawal is how bad you feel, so your bed bound, but then your pumped full of adrenaline due to the withdrawal and then you are also not moving much (except those fucking legs)

If you can get a lot of walking today, or do some high rep low weight weight training, you can help speed along your endogenous endorphins to work better, and hopefully allow your body to dispel some excess adrenaline.

 

[BadBoy377]

Any A2 agonist or GABA agent should bring more immediate relief.

I’m all for using more sustainable agents but if you are pressed for cash or acess, this far in, you’d only need a single 10mg Valium, 0.1-0.2mg clonidine or 300mg or so of pregabs.

You don’t want to be using anymore comfort stuff if you made it this far cold, the aim is to get that first night of sleep and go from there.

Sleep is KING. Life is not worth living without it.

The sustainable stuff would be Agmatine, CBG, Valerian Hops and Passion Flower (the range or tesco do a cheap as chip pack, I take 3 of them and it feels like 2-5mg Valium) Theanine.

400-800mg Theanine
50mg+ CBG
100mg Valerian Blend
1-3grams Agmatine

Would do the trick but I know may be hard to acess.

I know it may be the last thing you wish to do, but if you can force yourself, spend all of today as physically active as you can.

The shit thing about withdrawal is how bad you feel, so your bed bound, but then your pumped full of adrenaline due to the withdrawal and then you are also not moving much (except those fucking legs)

If you can get a lot of walking today, or do some high rep low weight weight training, you can help speed along your endogenous endorphins to work better, and hopefully allow your body to dispel some excess adrenaline.

Tesco Valerian blend you say? Really that good?

I'll pick some up next time I'm in. On your recommendation.

 

[KurtAurelius]

Tesco Valerian blend you say? Really that good?

I'll pick some up next time I'm in. On your recommendation.

I am extremely sensitive mind you, but the one that is 3.75 and is a blend of hops passion flower and valerian I really like,

I’m naughty and have three instead of the two your meant to and it’s very noticeabley relaxing.

However I am a high strung guy + Autistic (which means I am naturally deficient in GABA)

It could be disappointing but I’ve bought it a fair few time, I’ll usually munch through the pack (30 so lasts me 10 doses) and I’ll take a few days off before getting another pack, they always work like a treat for me.

 

[BadBoy377]

I am extremely sensitive mind you, but the one that is 3.75 and is a blend of hops passion flower and valerian I really like,

I’m naughty and have three instead of the two your meant to and it’s very noticeabley relaxing.

However I am a high strung guy + Autistic (which means I am naturally deficient in GABA)

It could be disappointing but I’ve bought it a fair few time, I’ll usually munch through the pack (30 so lasts me 10 doses) and I’ll take a few days off before getting another pack, they always work like a treat for me.

I'll take the gamble no worries.

I'm really into herbal medicine. I used to make valerian extract in vodka years ago. Smelt like cat piss - tasted like... well, it was one of the harder things to get down you shot of that stuff. Seemed to do something though.

I miss kava kava. Now there was a herb that really worked well. So much the big pharma had to find a way of knobbling it here. Wish I could get some nice kava. If anyone knows any legit companies that supply UK? (It's not sourcing, it's not illegal, it's a medicinal herb, c'mon now)

 

[KurtAurelius]

I'll take the gamble no worries.

I'm really into herbal medicine. I used to make valerian extract in vodka years ago. Smelt like cat piss - tasted like... well, it was one of the harder things to get down you shot of that stuff. Seemed to do something though.

I miss kava kava. Now there was a herb that really worked well. So much the big pharma had to find a way of knobbling it here. Wish I could get some nice kava. If anyone knows any legit companies that supply UK? (It's not sourcing, it's not illegal, it's a medicinal herb, c'mon now)

I’ve had a lot of success with many OtC herbs tbf, concentrated extracts of the proper alkaloids are like drug in my experience but I’m sensitive ( however I do megadose lol)

I really loved Kava too, tried it once, really warm and fuzzy but gentle.

 

[BadBoy377]

I’ve had a lot of success with many OtC herbs tbf, concentrated extracts of the proper alkaloids are like drug in my experience but I’m sensitive ( however I do megadose lol)

I really loved Kava too, tried it once, really warm and fuzzy but gentle.

Aye it was great. Closest thing to a benzo I've ever tried. Just chill and a good night's sleep with no hangover.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Well that fucking sucks. I hope they at least have the decency to leave you in peace when you're having one of your many shits.

Try distracting them. Point out the window when someone walks past and go 'ooh a meth head' they'll soon go pester someone else.

But not sleeping is awful. What you got on hand to use? For me some nitrazepam and a couple drams usually does the trick. Depends what other meds you're on though. Insomnia isn't funny.

Hope you get some rest soon,

BB

Thanks

They did lurk in the bathroom whilst I obliterated the toilet at first, but then for some reason they started gagging and crying and left

Finally got some decent sleep yesterday. And got my scripts today. Including Morphine, but since I essentially went 7 days with only small amounts of Morphine or Lope I'm gonna really keep it to a minimum so my tolerance doesn't creep up again and to keep physical dependency to a minimum.

I don't have any GOOD sleep meds, but a few things I sometimes try if desperate. Gabapentin can help. I'm also prescribed Quetiapine (Seroquel) and Thorazine. With the Quetiapine, I'm allowed to titrate my dose up or down as I feel like I need, so I've got a repeat rx for the 25mg pills as well as higher dose pills to make that easier, so I'll sometimes take 25-50mg
Oh, and I do have Trazodone. I'm not prescribed it anymore, but I probably still have a couple hundred of them. The reason I stopped taking it, though, is because it gives me very graphic, disturbing nightmares to the point where I'd usually rather not sleep.

Lucky! I'd kill for a few Nitrazepam!

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Any A2 agonist or GABA agent should bring more immediate relief.

I’m all for using more sustainable agents but if you are pressed for cash or acess, this far in, you’d only need a single 10mg Valium, 0.1-0.2mg clonidine or 300mg or so of pregabs.

You don’t want to be using anymore comfort stuff if you made it this far cold, the aim is to get that first night of sleep and go from there.

Sleep is KING. Life is not worth living without it.

The sustainable stuff would be Agmatine, CBG, Valerian Hops and Passion Flower (the range or tesco do a cheap as chip pack, I take 3 of them and it feels like 2-5mg Valium) Theanine.

400-800mg Theanine
50mg+ CBG
100mg Valerian Blend
1-3grams Agmatine

Would do the trick but I know may be hard to acess.

I know it may be the last thing you wish to do, but if you can force yourself, spend all of today as physically active as you can.

The shit thing about withdrawal is how bad you feel, so your bed bound, but then your pumped full of adrenaline due to the withdrawal and then you are also not moving much (except those fucking legs)

If you can get a lot of walking today, or do some high rep low weight weight training, you can help speed along your endogenous endorphins to work better, and hopefully allow your body to dispel some excess adrenaline.

Thanks, I'll look into those suggestions. Are CBG and Agmatine OTC? I've not heard of them.

 

[KurtAurelius]

Thanks, I'll look into those suggestions. Are CBG and Agmatine OTC? I've not heard of them.

CBG is easier to get, it’s a cannabinoid with very interesting properties, A2 yes but also blocks Toll Like Receptor which means faster withdrawal recovery and less opioid cravings.

It excels at making CBD and THC more medical, with Terpenes. But CBG is still worth loads on its own.

A2 agonists potentiate Opioids and will make you need less of them.

Agmatine is sadly grey in the UK, but you have to import it as it can’t be sold as a food supplement in the UK. Fucks me right of as it’s a amazing medicine

I still would consider Agmatine however

NMDA receptor antagonist
TLR4 blocker
A2 agonist

It has been found to have similar antidepressant properties as esketamine

It was shown to block tolerance to morphine in rats and potentiates analgesia.

I take 750mg 4 times a day. I’m usually on Methylphenidate (which it very much boosts) but when I am on opioids, it makes them work far longer, and I have done some very stupid runs with no withdrawals.

I say this seriously, this stuff is a miracle. I refuse to ever run out of it.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

CBG is easier to get, it’s a cannabinoid with very interesting properties, A2 yes but also blocks Toll Like Receptor which means faster withdrawal recovery and less opioid cravings.

It excels at making CBD and THC more medical, with Terpenes. But CBG is still worth loads on its own.

A2 agonists potentiate Opioids and will make you need less of them.

Agmatine is sadly grey in the UK, but you have to import it as it can’t be sold as a food supplement in the UK. Fucks me right of as it’s a amazing medicine

I still would consider Agmatine however

NMDA receptor antagonist
TLR4 blocker
A2 agonist

It has been found to have similar antidepressant properties as esketamine

It was shown to block tolerance to morphine in rats and potentiates analgesia.

I take 750mg 4 times a day. I’m usually on Methylphenidate (which it very much boosts) but when I am on opioids, it makes them work far longer, and I have done some very stupid runs with no withdrawals.

I say this seriously, this stuff is a miracle. I refuse to ever run out of it.

Thanks, this is really helpful!

 

[BadBoy377]

Thanks

They did lurk in the bathroom whilst I obliterated the toilet at first, but then for some reason they started gagging and crying and left

Finally got some decent sleep yesterday. And got my scripts today. Including Morphine, but since I essentially went 7 days with only small amounts of Morphine or Lope I'm gonna really keep it to a minimum so my tolerance doesn't creep up again and to keep physical dependency to a minimum.

I don't have any GOOD sleep meds, but a few things I sometimes try if desperate. Gabapentin can help. I'm also prescribed Quetiapine (Seroquel) and Thorazine. With the Quetiapine, I'm allowed to titrate my dose up or down as I feel like I need, so I've got a repeat rx for the 25mg pills as well as higher dose pills to make that easier, so I'll sometimes take 25-50mg
Oh, and I do have Trazodone. I'm not prescribed it anymore, but I probably still have a couple hundred of them. The reason I stopped taking it, though, is because it gives me very graphic, disturbing nightmares to the point where I'd usually rather not sleep.

Lucky! I'd kill for a few Nitrazepam!

Even the shadow people have their limits it seems.

 

[Syntherize]

For the sake of time zones, it's currently 5am Tuesday.
So I've been taking around 200mg Morphine per day (mostly rectally, so like 400mg orally)

Only had 80mg Thursday (big decrease, but I'm not counting that as a detox-withdrawal day as I had only mild withdrawal that was tolerable)

On Friday (I guess day 1?) I had 40mg (orally), as I couldn't have ZERO as I woke up mid-shitting-the bed and then violently threw up until I was spitting blood. And on Saturday I ALSO FUCKING WOKE UP WHILE SHITTING MYSELF and had vomiting and diarrhea all day so had 20mg orally.
Sunday nothing at all.
Yesterday like 48mg Lope, no Morphine again
So far nothing today.

This count, right?

As in I'm on day 5 of detox?

Be very careful with Loperamide since it can cause life threatening heart arrhythmias and death.

 

[Syntherize]

It’s essentially opioid free, Loperamide is only peripherally acting, so you shit yourself less but the receptors in the brain have begun to recover endogenous function..

Good job, but not so sure about the doses of Lope just be careful.

Loperamide IS and opioid closely resembling methadone in structure. The only difference is that it doesn’t cross the Blood Brain Barrier at normal doses, but it can if you take enough of it to overwhelm the enzymes required to push it back out of the brain and/or you use nanoparticles to transport it into the CNS as they’ve already done in laboratory tests in animals, but as I’ve already mentioned Loperamide causes life threatening heart arrhythmias in humans at the dosages necessary to have any psychoactive effect, and from what I hear it would resemble methadone in that it will lack any real euphoria; albeit, it should have some legs to the experience. I’ve taken 100mg of Lope while in opiate withdrawal from heroin, and it does help, but depending on your individual physiology it is possible to have it enter the brain at such dosages, but it isn’t recommended. Just take whole kratom leaf powder instead, or even something like 7-OH if your habit was large. Otherwise, OP being on day number five means they’re almost through the roughest parts.

P.S. Habitually taking Loperamide daily will result in one of the worst and protracted physical withdrawals known to man on the same level as methadone without any of the fun parts of opioids when used in such a manner.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Even the shadow people have their limits it seems.

Be very careful with Loperamide since it can cause life threatening heart arrhythmias and death.

Yeah, I try to be careful and only use it when I have no other opioids. Usually 2-3 days every couple weeks. Hoping now that I've gotten through a lot of the physical dependence I might actually make my script last this time.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

P.S. Habitually taking Loperamide daily will result in one of the worst and protracted physical withdrawals known to man on the same level as methadone without any of the fun parts of opioids when used in such a manner.

I used around 30-40mg/day for a little over two weeks once. Then stopped. The diarrhea was insane and the cramps were agonizing. I lost 16lbs (and I was only like 120 to begin with) over the next 2 weeks, partly dehydration from the diarrhea (I gained 6lbs back pretty quickly when it was finally over) but mostly because the cramps were so painful I was too scared to eat anything and just had like a very small bowl of soup, or half a slice of dry toast per day. DEFINITELY would avoid getting a physical dependence on Lope at all costs.
I think it was probably another week after that - so three, total - before my digestive system felt back to normal again.

 

[TheLightBringer]

There's many options that'll be more helpful than Pregabalin imo. I wrote this guide which addresses opioid recovery. It's fully otc. Zero experimental or expensive items involved. For morphine it should work just fine.

It removes the need for benzos and does what SR-17018 can't do (which is a lot when you really think about it).

I agree with some of the things on your list. But as for linalool, phytol, bisabolol, nerolidol, borneol, how do they remove the need for benzodiazepines if they have no clinical use? There is a reason we dont use all the essential oils and things you mentioned and use clinically approved drugs instead. Find me a study that proves they are more effective than benzodiazepines as GABAergics.

Allopregnanolone is great but the other things make no sense, why use a bunch of overlapping GABAergics with really weak effects over a potent clinically tested one. The effects are NOT cumulative.

I would just use real clinically approved compounds instead of a bunch of supplements
Instead of PEA take a clinically approved mast cell stabilizer and antihistamine like
Ketotifen (which also has TLR4 antagonism)
Take a low dose benzodiazepine instead of all the essential oils if discomfort is really bad.
Keep Allopregnenolone
Keep CBG if you want but pubmed shows it to be less effective than Guanfacine and Clonidine: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9124753/
It might show promise when the ongoing human trials are finished though

The rest of the compounds are fine but theyre either supplements or essential nutrients/vitamins you mentioned.

(Could eat some SR-17018 if you want since theres really not many things as effective as it although admittedly it doesnt have any human studies but at least the hundreds of anecdotes online make it seem stellar.)

Thats what I would do, then focus on the repair of metabolic functions and dopamine receptors after withdrawal.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Allopregnanolone is great

It's pregnenolone, not alloP which is a metabolite of progesterone:

P → 5α-dihydroP → allopregnanolone​

...but the other things make no sense

Not everyone has the appropriate understanding to see relevance in the various trivial items which are mentioned. I explicitly mentioned this fact at the end of the post.

...how do they remove the need for benzodiazepines...

Actually I could have mentioned the GABAergic cannabinoids (magnolol/honokiol) from Magnolia but I wanted to keep the post as minimalistic as possible.

...if they have no clinical use?

I don't consider "clinical use" to be a relevant measure of validity or suitability of a drug.

 

[TheLightBringer]

It's pregnenolone, not alloP which is a metabolite of progesterone:

P → 5α-dihydroP → allopregnanolone​

Not everyone has the appropriate understanding to see relevance in the various trivial items which are mentioned. I explicitly mentioned this fact at the end of the post.


Actually I could have mentioned the GABAergic cannabinoids (magnolol/honokiol) from Magnolia but I wanted to keep the post as minimalistic as possible.


I don't consider "clinical use" to be a relevant measure of validity or suitability of a drug.

Well I mean no offense but a large number of your posts read like someone who has a great interest in chemistry and pharmacology but no proper experience or understanding regarding to drug use and clinical practice.

While I agree that clinical use doesnt have to be a direct correlation as to the validity or effectiveness of a drug, most supplements, peptides, research chemicals etc have had some form of clinical studies/evaluation carried out on them. And you cannot provide studies citing that your essential oils and l-theanine will outperform benzodiazepines. Then youre also suggesting low dose B-vitamins will make Opioid withdrawal easier? Alright man, these are essential nutrients youre not gonna give B-vitamins to a tranq addict and tell him ”this will make your withdrawal easier” no difference will be felt.

You have other posts where you talk about eating a bunch of herbal supplements to recreate the effects of LSD which simply wont happen, or that you can get ”high” from taking essential oils or other random things. Sorry if it cannot cause a significant altered state or get you ”fucked up” its not getting you high. You cant replicate 500ug LSD with the herbal supplements you mentioned before, you cant replicate the effect of alprazolam or a large amount of alcohol with your herbal supplements and agmatine. No matter how much you take.

And if you give your protocol vs my protocol to someone withdrawing from a high dose fent or zenes…. Well I assume we both know who would have an easier and safer time coming off


Your claims in other posts that citral is a psychedelic and has strong effects make it seem like you have no idea how to interpret studies, you see that a compound effects a receptor and go on forums and give strange suggestions that herbal supplements and oils will get someone high when there are studies on citral with dosages as high as 15mg/kg - 20mg/kg and no mentions of a psychedelic effect.

You have posts where you claim l-theanine, taurine, magnesium and phytol will outperform pregabalin + diazepam therapeutically. This is just a dangerous and misinformed statement. Go give those to an epilepsy patient and tell them ”this will outperform your medications therapeutically” then watch them die. Or a neuropathic pain patient, severe anxiety patient, fibromyalgia, SPS, insomnia etc etc. It wont do anything for them

So please stop spreading misinformation because you think that a compound binding to a receptor makes it comparable at all to other compounds that do…