Has anybody here taken meth or coke on a regular basis and then tried either ecstasy or molly and found that it was really weak or felt nothing at all? Does whatever coke or meth do to your brain just make MDMA not feel as good since it may not be as strong of a drug? I was at a party recently and one of my friends there was telling me how he and his friend tried ecstasy from the same guy I go to and they barely felt anything. I know what pill he got and it tested good, and I also tried it and it was pretty good. I was just wondering if maybe something like meth or crack, which I know this guy does, just makes the MDMA high feel weak since the high from those drugs are so much stronger ( I'm just assuming it is, never tried them).
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Does heavy cocaine/meth history of use make MDMA not "special" ?
- Thread starter devorzon
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matt2012
Bluelighter
Meth has a cross tolerance with MDMA so as you build a tolerance to meth you are also building your tolerance to MDMA. so your friends killed the magic without even knowing it....if they are regular meth users.
georgewc2001
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OP, do you mean will somone who is high on meth or coke feel mdma or are you asking if someone who has a tolerance to meth or coke but is sober will have an automatic tolerance to mdma?
Generally speaking, both coke and meth as a high will override mdma. However, just because somone has a tolerance to meth and/or coke shouldn't mean they will necessarily have a tolerance to mdma while sober since mdma acts on seratonin, which coke and meth do not. Of course the dopamine action of mdma might not be as strong since coke and meth hit that neurotransmitter (if i'm not getting confused on my facts here), but I think most of the roll comes from the seratonin release so your friend should still roll plenty hard assuming they're not already on coke or meth.
Generally speaking, both coke and meth as a high will override mdma. However, just because somone has a tolerance to meth and/or coke shouldn't mean they will necessarily have a tolerance to mdma while sober since mdma acts on seratonin, which coke and meth do not. Of course the dopamine action of mdma might not be as strong since coke and meth hit that neurotransmitter (if i'm not getting confused on my facts here), but I think most of the roll comes from the seratonin release so your friend should still roll plenty hard assuming they're not already on coke or meth.
First Bad Comedown
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MDMA's primary action is on serotonin transporters and receptors, but it ultimately leads to a greater increase in dopamine.
The serotonin network suppresses dopamine in 3 of the 4 dopamine pathways.
The major reward pathway, the meso-limbic, is the exception.
When the peak hits, serotonin has reached its maximum level and begins to fall along with cortisol.
This suggests that it is a DROP in serotonin that causes the 'magic' to happen - because dopamine suppression has been lifted and the meso-limbic reward pathway has been targeted with a SURGE of dopamine. As the other dopamine pathways are allowed to fire again, the meso-limbic is PRIMED for action. Cue pituitary release of oxytocin and prolactin!
Dopamine in the meso-limbic pathway is what makes ALL drugs worth doing.
And stimulants like METH release FAR more dopamine than MDMA.
This means they can down-regulate dopamine receptors in this critical pathway!
And kill dopamine neurons, esp. in the nigro-striatal pathway.
The death of dopamine activity is the cause of this problem.
I could simply have said 'cross-tolerance' happens, but I felt a longer explanation is warranted.
MDMA can damage dopamine neurons, but the serotonin network is MUCH more fragile.
Taking MDMA is more likely to cause 'brain damage' than meth, but all drugs can cause this in the right repeated doses.
I have ONE friend who uses METH and he can NEVER roll.
In fact, he has said that the day after he feels WAY fucked up.
His chest hurts...he thinks he isn't breathing right...
He doesn't see the point.
And animal studies have shown that METH increases the toxicity of MDMA to serotonin neurons considerably.
A central theory of MDMA toxicity involves the metabolites of dopamine finding their way into the serotonin receptors.
Meth users shouldn't be trying to roll.
Period.
They shouldn't be doing METH either...
The serotonin network suppresses dopamine in 3 of the 4 dopamine pathways.
The major reward pathway, the meso-limbic, is the exception.
When the peak hits, serotonin has reached its maximum level and begins to fall along with cortisol.
This suggests that it is a DROP in serotonin that causes the 'magic' to happen - because dopamine suppression has been lifted and the meso-limbic reward pathway has been targeted with a SURGE of dopamine. As the other dopamine pathways are allowed to fire again, the meso-limbic is PRIMED for action. Cue pituitary release of oxytocin and prolactin!
Dopamine in the meso-limbic pathway is what makes ALL drugs worth doing.
And stimulants like METH release FAR more dopamine than MDMA.
This means they can down-regulate dopamine receptors in this critical pathway!
And kill dopamine neurons, esp. in the nigro-striatal pathway.
The death of dopamine activity is the cause of this problem.
I could simply have said 'cross-tolerance' happens, but I felt a longer explanation is warranted.
MDMA can damage dopamine neurons, but the serotonin network is MUCH more fragile.
Taking MDMA is more likely to cause 'brain damage' than meth, but all drugs can cause this in the right repeated doses.
I have ONE friend who uses METH and he can NEVER roll.
In fact, he has said that the day after he feels WAY fucked up.
His chest hurts...he thinks he isn't breathing right...
He doesn't see the point.
And animal studies have shown that METH increases the toxicity of MDMA to serotonin neurons considerably.
A central theory of MDMA toxicity involves the metabolites of dopamine finding their way into the serotonin receptors.
Meth users shouldn't be trying to roll.
Period.
They shouldn't be doing METH either...
I meant when sober- he wasn't high at the time he took the pills. My thinking was maybe meth has such a stronger high that he's use to that maybe the MDMA high just pales in comparison so he doesn't react to it since his body/ brain is use to so much more. I guess it's like when someone has been taking OxyContin for headaches, and then has to switch to Tylenol.
trance in fraance
Bluelighter
^how often does he do meth? and when was the last time he used?
Meth destroys Serotonin Transporters and heavily downregulates receptors so its not suprising that your friend didnt feel much. imo if he wants to get that special mdma-feeling then he should stop the meth and wait about 2-3 months for his serotonin system to recover
Meth destroys Serotonin Transporters and heavily downregulates receptors so its not suprising that your friend didnt feel much. imo if he wants to get that special mdma-feeling then he should stop the meth and wait about 2-3 months for his serotonin system to recover
LSDMDMA&
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Ok crackaz really need to learn a thing or two about how methamphetamine affects neurotransmitter levels in the brain, and how methamphetamine effects the functioning of receptors that take in neurotransmitters...
1. Methamphetamine is for all intents and purposes pretty much inactive on 5HT levels, there will be some release of 5HT by methamphetamine (and amphetamine in the brain too for that matter) but the 5HT release methamphetamine can induce is less than 1/10th of that caused by MDMA, methamphetamine doesn't increase 5HT levels (and thus will not deplete serotonin levels prety much) to enough of an extent to cause noticable sergotonic effects when you use it....The meth high is caused pretty much exclusively by the massive increase in dopamine levels induced by methamphetamine in the brain...and methamphetamine will cause DOPAMINE receptors to shut down or downregulate/will damage the dopamine system in the brain but methamphetamine doesnt have much of an effect on the serotonin system in the brain.
2. Methamphetamine isn't going to be especially cross tolerant with MDMA seeing as methamphetamine doesn't have much of an effect on the serotonin system in the brain and MDMA acts almost exclusively on the serotonin system, the minor dopamine release induced by MDMA isn't responsible for most of the effects caused by MDMA so having a tolerance to methamphetamine isn't going to cause very much of a cross tolerance with MDMA...
and for what its worth, the brain returns back to normal after taking methamphetamine a hell of a lot faster than after using MDMA, and the dopamine system is more resiliant than the serotonin system and the dopamine system can repair itself quicker than the serotonin system can, and damage to the dopamine system doesn't cause nearly as many side effects as damage to the serotonin system does...
use for use MDMA is far more taxing on the brain than methamphetamine is, using methamphetamine once a weekend for a few months wont cause near the same level of side effects/noticeable cognitive changes as using MDMA once a weekend will.
and to the OP, methamphetamine is a strong high with regards to stimulant drugs but its not some super strong ridiculously intense drug that once you try it other drugs will be less intense...
and for what its worth, receptor downregulation only occurs as a result of using high dose amp/meth often for months/years and is often able to be reversed by abstaining from using for a while..
1. Methamphetamine is for all intents and purposes pretty much inactive on 5HT levels, there will be some release of 5HT by methamphetamine (and amphetamine in the brain too for that matter) but the 5HT release methamphetamine can induce is less than 1/10th of that caused by MDMA, methamphetamine doesn't increase 5HT levels (and thus will not deplete serotonin levels prety much) to enough of an extent to cause noticable sergotonic effects when you use it....The meth high is caused pretty much exclusively by the massive increase in dopamine levels induced by methamphetamine in the brain...and methamphetamine will cause DOPAMINE receptors to shut down or downregulate/will damage the dopamine system in the brain but methamphetamine doesnt have much of an effect on the serotonin system in the brain.
2. Methamphetamine isn't going to be especially cross tolerant with MDMA seeing as methamphetamine doesn't have much of an effect on the serotonin system in the brain and MDMA acts almost exclusively on the serotonin system, the minor dopamine release induced by MDMA isn't responsible for most of the effects caused by MDMA so having a tolerance to methamphetamine isn't going to cause very much of a cross tolerance with MDMA...
and for what its worth, the brain returns back to normal after taking methamphetamine a hell of a lot faster than after using MDMA, and the dopamine system is more resiliant than the serotonin system and the dopamine system can repair itself quicker than the serotonin system can, and damage to the dopamine system doesn't cause nearly as many side effects as damage to the serotonin system does...
use for use MDMA is far more taxing on the brain than methamphetamine is, using methamphetamine once a weekend for a few months wont cause near the same level of side effects/noticeable cognitive changes as using MDMA once a weekend will.
and to the OP, methamphetamine is a strong high with regards to stimulant drugs but its not some super strong ridiculously intense drug that once you try it other drugs will be less intense...
and for what its worth, receptor downregulation only occurs as a result of using high dose amp/meth often for months/years and is often able to be reversed by abstaining from using for a while..
Last edited:
wildwendigo
Greenlighter
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It's all making sense now... This is why mah friend doesn't like ecstasy. She used Adderol recreationally for ages and now just has a horrible time anytime she even tries MDMA.
