Excuse me Mr. Moderator?
The rest of your post was moderately respectful, but your opening could use some help.
I am not 'spewing' nonsense, but I am strongly opinionated.
Remember what you first said - 'You are normally a VERY informative poster.'
Did I simply fuck this one up?
Or do you simply dislike what I'm saying?
I'm just saying you've been reading a little too much anti-weed propaganda.
I really don't want to get in an arguing match with a Mod, so I will keep this brief...
I'm not a moderator in this forum..
Yes, marijuana use increases the risk associated with MDMA - IF marijuana is consumed REGULARLY.
Like it or not, it is TRUE.
Marginally at best? Don't
abuse MDMA you won't have these problems bro.
How many more studies would I have to post to convince you?
The fact is, you simply don't WANT it to be true - understandable... because they are a GREAT combination.
There is nothing like a bowl to bring that roll ROARING back.
The bowl brings the roll back the next day because the levels of MDMA remain very very high for 8 hours after the roll, and i modest amounts the next day. There does not mean cannabis is hurting you. That's just the THC and other cannibinoids giving you a little buzz mixing with the high levels of MDMA after acute tolerance has developed. Pharmacokinetics
MDMA reaches maximal concentrations in the blood stream between 1.5 and 3 hours after ingestion. It is then slowly metabolized and excreted, with levels decreasing to half their peak concentration over approximately 8 hours. Thus, there are still high MDMA levels in the body when the experiential effects have mostly ended, indicating that acute tolerance has developed to the actions of MDMA. Taking additional supplements of MDMA at this point, therefore, produces higher concentrations of MDMA in the blood and brain than might be expected based on the perceived effects.
Metabolites of MDMA that have been identified in humans include 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), 4-hydroxy-3-methoxy-methamphetamine (HMMA), 4-hydroxy-3-methoxyamphetamine (HMA), 3,4-dihydroxyamphetamine (DHA) (also called alpha-methyldopamine (α-Me-DA)), 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone (MDP2P), and N-hydroxy-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDOH). The contributions of these metabolites to the psychoactive and toxic effects of MDMA are an area of active research. Sixty-five percent of MDMA is excreted unchanged in the urine (in addition, 7% is metabolized into MDA) during the 24 hours after ingestion.[112]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mdma
But smoking DAILY is a VERY common confounding factor when it comes to patients experiencing SERIOUS clinical symptoms of anxiety post MDMA.
It is common enough that you can find in several META studies, and yes...in neuro-endocrine studies.
You have dismissed a decent link.
People who smoke everyday are often self-medicating for other underlying mental problems. In fact just about all people who do any drugs everyday are... Your links are all severely biased and lack a variety of controls necessary to be conclusive. There are lots of things that could explain low serotonin levels besides the fact they smoke a plant.
In this first link I have answered the OP's question - heavy cannabis use DOES decrease the brain's response to serotonin release.
Smoking WHILE rolling won't take away, but smoking for WEEKS beforehand WILL. Period. End of discussion.
It doesn't negatively impact the roll or impact the serotonin release. There is simply no real pharmacological reason this would happen with the drugs, other than a study on teenagers that said the ones who smoke pot everyday have lowered serotonin. I think that could be a causual relationship, in fact there's strong evidence that depression causes teens to self medicate on marijuana when they are depressed, which could mean the reason they are depressed is because of the natural chemical imbalance (hence why they smoke weed). That study NEVER mentioned how many teens who smoke weed daily report being depressed before doing so...
And bringing up 'purity' issues is one of the MOST common practices among MDMA users.
Somehow they believe that ALL studies are compromised due to this confounding factor.
When you read THOUSANDS of papers, you begin to realize that the data is over-whelming in some ways.
You would have to assume that nearly ALL tabs are adulterated to DISMISS all the data.
Weak argument.
There are inconsistincies in the controls in all the studies. None of the subjects were confirming what they were taken, or what possible contaminants it had. Or other drug use for that matter... If this were high grade MDMA being tested on subjects, we would have more controls, but who knows what these tabs were cut with, and what contaminants they contain from the synth process. We aren't necessarily getting stuff that isn't free from poisons left over in synth you know... Or what bacteria could be in the pills for all we know.. This isn't a clean business at all.
As far as marijuana lowering serotonin - again you are dismissive.
I agree that SSRIs are SHITTY and even CRIMINAL, especially when given to KIDS.
But are you really going to take the position that MARIJUANA is an ANTI-DEPRESSANT?
Yes several people smoke marijuana to treat depression. And it works for them.
Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome shares a remarkable number of symptoms with SS.
It is unknown what the exact cause is, but usually dopaminergic drugs are to blame.
SS and NMS are easily mistaken based on similar presentation in the ER - it is the medication/drug that determines the answer.
But NMS HAS been seen with serotonin agonists - remember serotonin is a modulator of dopamine.
So do about 15+ other neurological disorders...
In fact, the loss of serotonin innervation from MDMA directly effects dopamine levels in the frontal lobes.
Why would you even bother arguing a clear case study?
It is probably the dopamine activity of LSD and weak afinity for serotonin, combined with MASSIVE release of serotonin by MDMA that caused this.
LSD + MDMA resulted in catastrophic NMS in two patients.
Candy-flipping is NOT 'safe'. The DANGER is REAL, especially with combinations!
I want to know what doses... I mean there's too many extreme cases to point out to prove that others cannot have a good time responsibly? I mean I know people who drop 5 tabs and 10 hits of acid etc, and I understand that being a risk to them, but, if I smoke weed everyday and I decide to take a hit of acid and a pill and a half, followed by another pill an hour later, have a good time, stay hydrated, go to bed, sleep, next day I'm going to go schizo? Or Have NMS?
I know TWO friends that had SEVERE intestinal problems due to mushrooms.
One of them took it with MDMA, the other just ate shrooms too often.
All of the above damage nerves that control the intestines. That's what serotonin is ALL about.
Ecoli infection is very unlikely, my friend.
And YES, binging on MDMA is an ABSURDLY horrid idea.
But what I call a BINGE, is minor compared to what others describe.
I took 2.5 tabs, twice six days apart. Then another half the next day.
Then 48 hours later 4 benedryl.
The next day I woke up to a life-threatening case of Serotonin Syndrome.
Not much of a 'binge', is it?
Being a regular pot smoker for YEARS didn't help either, but the benedryl was really the straw that broke the camel on this one.
I find it astounding how many people claim that the 'honeymoon' period is normal and without consequence.
An abundance of research CLEARLY demonstrates that repeated dosing causes MORE and MORE damage.
This was my only 'binge'.
And my life-time exposure was less than 30 tabs.
So the word ABUSE doesn't belong in this argument.
Moderate USE of MDMA after YEARS of smoking weed, combined with a high-dose of benedryl... resulted in Serotonin Syndrome.
The anxiety caused by the 're-wiring' of my brain was similar to the symptoms of schizophrenia, especially in the first few months.
I do NOT have mental illness in my family, and few 'environmental' factors...
Do you really think that ALL the people shown in MDMA studies to suffer for 1-2 years from intense anxiety were simply ABUSERS?
Or had genetic weakness?
TBH I think the high dose benadryl fucked you over. But ya you can't say you weren't mildly abusive either..
It is more likely that you are underestimating the DANGER of MDMA.
There are many factors involved, genetics and weed included....but the dose of MDMA is the MOST important factor.
"Just use responsibly and you will have no adverse effects that FBC is ranting about."
This is an IRRESPONSIBLE statement on your part.
You can in NO way guarantee the SAFETY of ANY MDMA user/abuser on this board.
Without defining 'responsible' you may be putting people at greater danger.
By disagreeing with so many studies just to be contrary or defensive further endangers the young people that find their way to BL.
It is pretty obvious that most people don't know how to define 'responsible'.
150mg per roll, with rolls spaced by at LEAST 90 days.
That is 'safe'.
Or at least 'safe' enough that research cannot detect problems with this type of clinical dosing.
How many OPs around here have that type of control?
Ok....'ranting' is complete.
For the record, I have no issues with you Severely Etarded.
In fact, I enjoy debate and argument.
I hope the same is true for you...
Just think carefully before calling my contribution 'nonsense'.
I know I go WAY further than some people would like, but there are always readers that learn from the time I spend here.
I truly wish to educate users/abusers about the risks involved. There are a lot of basics understood...there is a lot more that isn't known.
All we can do is value truth.
Until next time.
I would hope people who read this understand the recommended breaks of 90+ days with limited responsible use should be ok. However there are assumed risks associated with all drug use... I thought it was common sense... But if it's not clear already, everyone will react different... However I don't think there is any point in quitting smoking as does anybody else really besides you (no offense). A lot of panicky people have problems with it but if they are not a panicky type I wouldnt worry. No binges/redosing etc dramatically reduces chances much more than abstaining from weed...
