Stimulants does anyone else get a nightmarish feeling off ritalin?

[Lopez]

to give some background i have 10 mg ritalin tabs prescribed for ADD. i was originally diagnosed with epilepsy and severe anxiety.

anyways i have CRAZY anxiety that doesn't go away, and nothing breaks it for me, insane amounts of vicodin, clonazepam, and other downers don't cut it... it's really a curse. however, when i take my ritalin it's like it slows my thoughts down, and helps me focus.. however as of recently it's been making me a little delusional...

an example, last night i was outside waiting for my friend to pick me up so we can go to a party, and i had taken my regular dose of ritalin before hand to make me a little more sociable as i wasn't planning on drinking. it kicked in and i felt the concentration and relaxing effects kick in.. when suddenly it's like it kicked into overdrive and i started getting a feeling like i was going crazy, like in another dimension or something.. everything seemed melancholic and even scary, the cars, the rain drops, the air i was breathing all took on a nightmarish tone. i felt like at any moment i'd start seeing things that weren't there.. of course i didn't...

a few weeks ago i watched the movie prisoners with some friends, and it traumatized me, i kept feeling like i was the guy and it was my girlfriend that had been kidnapped in the movie. ritalin generally makes me very screwy in the mind.. it used to simply stimulate me, now it's like it has a mild psychedelic touch... but in a bad way...

has this ever happened to anyone? i'm afraid i'm developing a reverse tolerance to its negative effects, i'm afraid of having full-blown psychosis eventually...

btw i severely doubt i'm epileptic because i know someone will bring it up... i simply can't be, i've never had a seizure of any kind, even after massive amounts of cocaine, tramadol, amphetamine, and other pro-epileptics..

bump. sorry, i answered a couple questions and lowered my own

 

[SaY4cT]

I never liked the IR either, mainly for their fast acting nature... SRs are much better, and don't leave you high and dry when you're just starting to get your boost

 

[Alex000]

From the few times I've done methylphenidate, in Concerta form, I can understand where you are coming from with some of the feelings described. They are not really atypical or very unusual with stimulants, including methylphenidate, but they are signals that there is too much being done in amount or duration of use at one time. I will say, with amphetamines, I have had lesser side-effects; even if they make you nervous (in the short-term, not on a binge) or anxious, it doesn't quite seem like the same nervousness and anxiety methylphenidate can produce. Methylphenidate CAN be better for chronic use than amphetamines, IMO, especially with respect to permanent neurotoxic effects; however, it is not the softest and not the best for everyone. I might recommend to you Focalin (IR OR XR), instead of Ritalin; less peripheral effects, less jumpiness, less rockiness, on the whole, while retaining the basic good and productive effects of regular Ritalin - Focalin is just d-methylphenidate, where Ritalin is dl-methylphenidate, rendering Focalin a bit more "refined" in a sense.

 

[Lopez]

From the few times I've done methylphenidate, in Concerta form, I can understand where you are coming from with some of the feelings described. They are not really atypical or very unusual with stimulants, including methylphenidate, but they are signals that there is too much being done in amount or duration of use at one time. I will say, with amphetamines, I have had lesser side-effects; even if they make you nervous (in the short-term, not on a binge) or anxious, it doesn't quite seem like the same nervousness and anxiety methylphenidate can produce. Methylphenidate CAN be better for chronic use than amphetamines, IMO, especially with respect to permanent neurotoxic effects; however, it is not the softest and not the best for everyone. I might recommend to you Focalin (IR OR XR), instead of Ritalin; less peripheral effects, less jumpiness, less rockiness, on the whole, while retaining the basic good and productive effects of regular Ritalin - Focalin is just d-methylphenidate, where Ritalin is dl-methylphenidate, rendering Focalin a bit more "refined" in a sense.

i'll be sure to ask my doctor. i'm just surprised that i'm so sensitive to it, i mean it's only 10 mg and i'm a 220 pounds, mostly muscle.

thanks for the advice!

 

[littlepenguin]

when/why were you diagnosed as epileptic?

did a doctor preform an EEG (electroencephalograph - where the doctor puts the little nodes on your head to measure brain waves) while awake and while sleeping?

because if you've never had an actual seizure, and haven't had an EEG preformed, I can't think of a way that you'd be diagnosed as such.

however, if you have had an EEG or MRI or have had brain trauma, you may have Absence Seizures (petit mal seizures) that are very short, last 10-30 seconds, and are kind of how you described what happened to you while waiting for your friend to pick you up for the party. Typical absence seizures begin abruptly, and resolve themselves without complication. The person simply stops in his tracks and enters a staring, trance-like state during which he is unresponsive and unaware of his surroundings. They may make fumbling movements with their hands, possible eyelid fluttering, lip smacking, or chewing motions during the seizure. When the seizure passes, the person returns to normal, with no memory of the event and no lingering effects.

If this is the case, it's possible that your ritalin could be triggering these absence seizures.

you said you have "crazy" anxiety - hyperventilation (rapid over breathing) is another common trigger for absence seizures.

I think it's very important you see your doctor asap and explain exactly what your symptoms are that you've described here. Request an EEG while sleeping and while awake - even if the doctor doesn't suggest it. Ask to see a specialist if necessary (neurologist).

 

[Lopez]

when/why were you diagnosed as epileptic?

did a doctor preform an EEG (electroencephalograph - where the doctor puts the little nodes on your head to measure brain waves) while awake and while sleeping?

because if you've never had an actual seizure, and haven't had an EEG preformed, I can't think of a way that you'd be diagnosed as such.

however, if you have had an EEG or MRI or have had brain trauma, you may have Absence Seizures (petit mal seizures) that are very short, last 10-30 seconds, and are kind of how you described what happened to you while waiting for your friend to pick you up for the party. Typical absence seizures begin abruptly, and resolve themselves without complication. The person simply stops in his tracks and enters a staring, trance-like state during which he is unresponsive and unaware of his surroundings. They may make fumbling movements with their hands, possible eyelid fluttering, lip smacking, or chewing motions during the seizure. When the seizure passes, the person returns to normal, with no memory of the event and no lingering effects.

If this is the case, it's possible that your ritalin could be triggering these absence seizures.

you said you have "crazy" anxiety - hyperventilation (rapid over breathing) is another common trigger for absence seizures.

I think it's very important you see your doctor asap and explain exactly what your symptoms are that you've described here. Request an EEG while sleeping and while awake - even if the doctor doesn't suggest it. Ask to see a specialist if necessary (neurologist).

I still retain full memory of the event, and im completely responsive during the anxiety attack, i just cant comprehend put into words the terror i experience. My EEG showed that my temporal lobe is "potentially" epileptic, but as my new doc said, its rather unlikely.

 

[Dev0r]

Reuptake inhibitors like ritalin suck man... switch to a more releaser-type prescription. Get Dexedrine, way less side effects, less thought loops/delusions less comedown.

I personally hate ritalin it feels like im coming up, no euphoria, feel like a robot during the peak, then I feel like total shit.

Even Ethylphenidate is better, Something about Methylphenidate just sucks!

 

[Lopez]

Reuptake inhibitors like ritalin suck man... switch to a more releaser-type prescription. Get Dexedrine, way less side effects, less thought loops/delusions less comedown.

I personally hate ritalin it feels like im coming up, no euphoria, feel like a robot during the peak, then I feel like total shit.

Even Ethylphenidate is better, Something about Methylphenidate just sucks!

Thing is im supposed to be on ritalin chronically, and as an above poster mentioned, amphetamines and releasing agents are neurotoxic.. I actually enjoy DRI's, they're not as pleasurable as amphetamines (except cocaine) but they seem more benign and convenient. I also dont seem to build tolerance to the stimulation.

My appointment with my doc is thursday, so i'm going to ak about focalin

 

[QUARE]

I got the worst symptoms ever on Methylphenidate, its like the worst drug ever IMO. First, after the main effect that last about 30-45 minutes I then fall into a complete anhedonia state where nothing interest me anymore, even gaming which is something I really enjoy was totally dull. What I do when this was happening, I just sit somewhere and do nothing because everything looks like shit. Then in long term, I became paranoiac and delusinal, I was thinking that everybody was looking at me and juging me and talking againts me even my friends and my girlfriend. This experience was total hell.

 

[Lopez]

yeah i become extremely delusional.. i think what you describe is the comedown, the anhedonia that is.

i experience it with coke, and really it's not that bad, i just sleep it off if possible or have some caffeine, which tends to combat this to some extent.

i'd have to say that methylphenidate is among my favorite meds, i find it quite enjoyable, it's like it doesn't have a buzz of its own, it just increases the "reward" feeling for normal things such as finishing a long essay and provides focus for class.

it just kind of makes me compliant with society and its standards it hold for us. i'm sure its the only reason why mph is prescribed...

 

[graydonj]

Im prescribed 2 20 mg a day of ritalin. I've only ever injected it. I do all 60 pills usually in 6/7 days. Im always glad when i run out however i wish i had some left a few days later. Im on morphine and opana and i recently started doing heroin again. I wish i hadn't. Im prescribed meds b/c i have ms. The ritalin helps w my exhaustion yet staying up for days is counter productive. I too become VERY aware of surroundings and sounds and i stay in one position for long periods if time in a frozen fast flashing fixated stream of conscientiousness where i discover brilliance until i read what i wrote but i enjoy it and paranoia is mild except for physical reactions like tremors and pupils the size of serving platters ..the comedown is unpleasant but nothing like coke crash and taking a neurontin or trazadone or a benzo makes it easier. Does anybody else shoot it..does anyone else have a needle addiction? ...this is my first post so please forgive my rambling.

 

[sekio]

Yes, methylphenidate can cause people to become delusional and paranoid. It certainly does not help mental stability, especially once it wears off.

Sudden shifts in perception are not typical side effects, though, and may indeed be indicators of epilepsy. You may need to throw in an anticonvulsant of some sort. Ask your doctor.

 

[Dev0r]

Thing is im supposed to be on ritalin chronically, and as an above poster mentioned, amphetamines and releasing agents are neurotoxic.. I actually enjoy DRI's, they're not as pleasurable as amphetamines (except cocaine) but they seem more benign and convenient. I also dont seem to build tolerance to the stimulation.

You think Amphetamine is neurotoxic, but Ritalin is not?

I don't really understand why some are under the consensus that Reuptake Inhibitors are safer than Releasers.

I for one can attest I get way more negative effects, comedown, and negative rebound effects from Reuptake Inhibitors.




Another good example is Methylone, god forbid its like the ritalin MDMA.
At leat reminds me of it. Reuptake Inhibitor that makes me feel like shit and gives me insomnia after like Ritalin and other reuptake inhibitors do.

But MDMA on the other hand which acts more as a releaser than Methylone does and less as a reuptake inhibitor doesnt give me as bad after effects.

Also, I like to be FOCUSED on a stimulant, I find phenidates, cathinones, cocaine, and other reuptake inhibitors to severely scatter my mental processes even if they are faster or "temporarily focused"
Amphetamine is straight focus. And Dextroamphetamine is also less toxic than Levoamphetamine.


But then again, different strokes for different folks.







edit: Also, both Ritalin and Methylone I have seen many people "Loop out" on. they get delusional paranoid angry speak in tongues and riddles etc. its fucking wierd.
I don't see people do this shit on amphetamine.

 

[sekio]

You think Amphetamine is neurotoxic, but Ritalin is not?
I don't really understand why some are under the consensus that Reuptake Inhibitors are safer than Releasers. I for one can attest I get way more negative effects, comedown, and negative rebound effects from Reuptake Inhibitors.

Subjective effects do not determine effects at a cellular level! Just because you feel strongly that one drug is better than the other, does not override the observation that most releasing agents are neurotoxic to dopaminergic cells (e.g. in animal models, and in humans) while most reuptake inhibitors are not.

Negative effects, comedown etc are not necessarily signs of direct neurotoxicity. Methylphenidate (& cocaine) is notably shitty because it has an easily cleaved ester group in the molecule that, when metabolised, deactivates the molecule quite rapidly... leading to a hard crash. Especially when administered non-orally.

It has been shown that amphetamine usage, especially in high dosage, is neurotoxic[ref]. The same has not been observed for methylphenidate, even though it does make some people feel shitty. One study suggests it is 10x less toxic, per milligram.. so 100mg MPH would hypothetically do as much damage as 10mg of amphetamine. Another suggests that methylphenidate is even neuroprotective! Amphetamine cannot be said to be so, when there are studies that suggest "therapeutic" amphetamine dosing is toxic.

And Dextroamphetamine is also less toxic than Levoamphetamine.

Fact: It's not. Dextroamphetamine is much more toxic than laevoamphetamine. In fact, laevoamphetamine has only about 1/10 the potency of amphetamine at releasing monoamines, which means at the low doses typically seen in Adderall it is little more than filler.

Also, methylone is not a reuptake inhibitor. It is a triple monoamine releaser, just with a different profile for 5ht/NE/DA than MDMA.

Also, both Ritalin and Methylone I have seen many people "Loop out" on. they get delusional paranoid angry speak in tongues and riddles etc. its fucking wierd.
I don't see people do this shit on amphetamine.

You haven't seen enough high-dose amphetamine use yet then. Especially methamphetamine. Ever heard of the "shadow people"?

 

[Dev0r]

Sekio. I never get shadow people from amphetamine.
(even meth amph, but I will admit I havnt done massive amounts of good ole meth amph but i've done huge doses of adderall, 2fma, dexedrine, 4fa etc.)

but i get them almost instantly from a-pvp or mdpv and high doses of cocaine/crack of course.


It seems some people react differently between the reuptake inhibitors and agonists?
I know some people who do get focus from ritalin but I find it just make me sit there and concentrate on how SHITTY i feel. lol








I know what you are saying Sekio and you have corrected me, but I do think from my own personal accounts and studies on the stimulants that the reuptake inhibitors literally "burnt me out" where as the releasers never did??
which I would assume was dopaminergic neurotoxicity.

 

[OntarioGuy]

I have used this drug IV several times and personally found it very pleasurable

 

[Dev0r]

OntarioGuy, check out Ethylphenidate then. I know some people who IV cocaine and Methylphenidate and went head over heels for the Ethylphenidate.

 

[Lopez]

from what i'm reading, focalin is more adrenergic than ritalin?

it has a higher affinity for NE reuptake than DA reuptake, correct?

wouldn't this make it have more peripheral sides? any experiences with it would be appreciated, thanks...

 

[Dev0r]

I thought Focalin was just the D isomer of Methylphenidate where Ritalin was racemic?

But I did enjoy focalin slightly better than ritalin. if that says anything at all..

 

[sekio]

but I do think from my own personal accounts and studies on the stimulants that the reuptake inhibitors literally "burnt me out" where as the releasers never did??
which I would assume was dopaminergic neurotoxicity.

Feeling "burnt out" is not a reliable indicator of neurotoxicity, though. Just energy depletion.

it has a higher affinity for NE reuptake than DA reuptake, correct?
wouldn't this make it have more peripheral sides?

No, the ED50 (Effective Concentration @ 50% Activity) for D-methylphenidate is about 20 nM for dopamine release and about 40 nM for norepinephrine release. Besides, If I remember right, the L-isomer of methylphenidate is not absorbed, or metabolised much faster than the D isomer, when methylphenidate is taken orally - and blood levels are consistently much lower than you would expect from a racemic drug.

A more applicable figure is the ratio of EC50 norepinephrine release to EC50 for dopamine release. And even then, some people find "plain" norepinephrine releasers like ethcathinone pleasurable - norepinephrine is reponsible for central stimulant effects, too. it is not just solely peripheral stimulation.

I thought Focalin was just the D isomer of Methylphenidate where Ritalin was racemic?

That is the case, yes. Focalin is generally preferred by many because it has a better pharmacological profile. In general people find it "smoother" and less jittery.