Does Addiction Go Away

[craigyt2k]

try replacing old habits with new healthy ones, once i was on a health kick and people though i was a smackhead/heroin user cos i was very skinny and a bit muscley and generally looked kinda carefree all the time, i felt amazing and thought drugs might amplify the feeling, they did but the down was always there thus i lost care for my health and went down a bad road with heroin for a few months.. few months later here i am picking up the pieces

 

[AfterGlow]

When you learn how to ride a bike, you can stop doing it for 20 years and then jump on and begin riding it like you rode yesterday. There is a concept known as muscle memory. Your brain rewired some neurological circuits so the reactions and motion becomes intuitive and you no longer need to think about it. It becomes a permanent part of who you are. That never goes away. It's just a matter of reactivating the circuits again.

Addictive drugs that tap directly into the brain's natural pleasure centers work in a similar way. Your brain is highly sensitive to stimuli of the dopamine system. It quickly rewires itself to associate those behaviors with pleasure. Each time you repeat the behavior, you reinforce those neurological circuits. Long after the physical withdrawals and psychological cravings have subsided, the wiring for that behavior remains in your brain. It takes very little to reactivate it. While it's possible for the intellectual mind to overcome those primal instincts, you are battling against your own biology.

That's how I like to think of it anyways.

 

[Eye]

Alternatives to AA/NA

I've been to a few hundred AA meetings. Anyone familiar with their theory on addiction? I disagree with 90% of it.

I read the 12 Steps and 12 Principles when I was first looking into getting some help achieving sobriety, and it all rubbed me the wrong way. I attended online meetings at SMART Recovery and found them enormously helpful.

I've been to one AA meeting in the course of my duties as addiction counselor, and disliked it as much as I expected. At SMART, the focus is on teaching CBT tools to apply to today's issues, whatever those happen to be. It's very positive and welcoming.

Other groups include Women For Sobriety, LifeRing, and Secular Organizations for Sobriety, and the latter two should have some worldwide influence and a great online presence is available for all four of the secular organizations I've mentioned in this post.

 

[Eye]

I think that it would be best for you to bring this issue up with a qualified addiction counselor or a psychotherapist specializing in addiction; no one here is really qualified to answer this apart from volunteering their opinion.

I am a qualified addiction counselor.

While you can argue whether or not addiction is a "disease", we all feel comfortable with the fact that the best remedy is to treat it as though it were a disease. It most certainly is a physical and mental health issue that typically continues to get worse when left untreated.

I think the disease model is largely accepted because AA/NA have pushed it and because calling it a disease allows us to bill insurance companies for treatment.

Have you read anything written by Stanton Peele? Take a look at this link: http://www.peele.net/lib/truth_1.html. It sums up my thoughts about addiction pretty accurately. Calling it a disease goes against all we know about the importance of self-efficacy and behavior modification. As a psychologist, it really, really bothers me. I think it's completely harmful to the process.

 

[panic in paradise]

^

holy shit, thats a damn interesting point man.
lol
i think you're right, regretfully and honestly.

....

 

[Lord]

I am a qualified addiction counselor.



I think the disease model is largely accepted because AA/NA have pushed it and because calling it a disease allows us to bill insurance companies for treatment.

Have you read anything written by Stanton Peele? Take a look at this link: http://www.peele.net/lib/truth_1.html. It sums up my thoughts about addiction pretty accurately. Calling it a disease goes against all we know about the importance of self-efficacy and behavior modification. As a psychologist, it really, really bothers me. I think it's completely harmful to the process.

It disempowers some of us, that's for sure. Drug addiction is not a disease, but it is disease-like.

 

[nervousone]

You will be defenseless for the rest of your life.

not hardly!

 

[Eye]

there is no cure for addiction, just opinions on how to deal with it. You will be defenseless for the rest of your life.

Now that IS disempowerment. Will your higher power defend you, I wonder? Or do you walk around fearful everywhere you go? Or worse, lock yourself in your home? I'm really opposed to keeping drugs and alcohol at the center of one's life long term. What's the point of quitting if you spend your life thinking and worrying about it? I want other things to become central. That is, I think, our job in recovery: finding something better to do with our lives.

 

[panic in paradise]

^
exactly

thats why i cant do AA/NA anymore.


i stopped using, to be free from it. not to now have the powers of fear, submission, and self-doubt on my head all the time...
i can taste a FINE wine, by not swallowing it, or worrying if i just relapsed.
that aint living to me.

 

[Eye]

Remember that alcohol is absorbed through the membranes of the mouth as well, so be careful. I wonder if your desire for the flavor may suggest you're still struggling with cravings a bit. How long have you been off alcohol?

What can you put in its place that might serve your need for tasting right now? Do you like fine cheeses? Fresh exotic fruit? Gourmet chocolates? How about electronic cigarettes with exotic e-juice flavors? It's good to reward yourself for good behavior and pamper yourself sometimes.

 

[panic in paradise]

two years

i only spit a super tuscan once, a year or something ago.
yes, i enjoy all that and then some.

i love love to cook, but i usually make everything with wine, but havent been doing so, because i dont want to buy a whole bottle for a dish...!

its true, and totally plausible what you said though.

Edit: and yes physical addiction does leave, guaranteed! but mental dependence/addiction is not to be second guessed.

 

[IntoxicatedDMMKM]

Says who? Is this personal experience or just something you would like to be true?

I was obviously talking about anhedonia, it takes at least a full decade to get back to before the drugs were ever used and have the dopamine working normally.

 

[Legerity]

There is also the matter of the brain rewiring to only acheive pleasure through substances, which takes quite a few years to return to normal.

If you give it say, 10 years, you will be able to completley conquer it and acheive a happy sober life.

10 years??? Good lord man, I hope you don't let that belief determine how you feel right now.

Have you read anything written by Stanton Peele? Take a look at this link: http://www.peele.net/lib/truth_1.html. It sums up my thoughts about addiction pretty accurately. Calling it a disease goes against all we know about the importance of self-efficacy and behavior modification. As a psychologist, it really, really bothers me. I think it's completely harmful to the process.

Stanton Peele is great. "The Addiction Experience" article on his website is one of the best descriptions of addiction that I have read...I think everybody could benefit from reading his material.

http://www.peele.net/lib/addexp.html

 

[villian]

I was obviously talking about anhedonia, it takes at least a full decade to get back to before the drugs were ever used and have the dopamine working normally.

Where are you getting this 10 year number?

 

[hobhead]

blanket statement of ten years is nonsense . i have cold turkey stopped heroin after a year and a half every day IV use more than once .
i have quit alcohol after fifteen consecutive years of daily heavy use .

as soon as sleep patterns returned to close to normal - within a month or so - i was back on my game . that is with the ability to take pleasure from mental, physical and social activities .

longest substance free period thus far was seven years .

i am a fucking addict and will always have my monkey somewhere close by me but not always on my back.

 

[Eye]

i assume you aimed this towards me. if you intended to hurt me, well you did. i'm tryin not to sugar coat the world and actually speak from my experience. thats exactly what i do, i dont do anything because of fear of relapse. dammit man that was way harsh

No, I'm not trying to hurt you at all, and I'm very sorry you feel this way. I'm just arguing a point and didn't mean it as a personal attack. I'm happy for whatever works for you. Honestly. Different people respond to different approaches, and if methods you use work for you, please continue them and be proud. You have very right to have our own beliefs and to act based on them. If your actions work, you have made a wise choice. I salute you. Anyone one does what needs to be done to reclaim his or her life deserves nothing but accolades.

two years

i only spit a super tuscan once, a year or something ago.
yes, i enjoy all that and then some.

i love love to cook, but i usually make everything with wine, but havent been doing so, because i dont want to buy a whole bottle for a dish...!

its true, and totally plausible what you said though.

Edit: and yes physical addiction does leave, guaranteed! but mental dependence/addiction is not to be second guessed.

Congrats on two years. Four years for me in March. Thumbs up!

10 years??? Good lord man, I hope you don't let that belief determine how you feel right now.



Stanton Peele is great. "The Addiction Experience" article on his website is one of the best descriptions of addiction that I have read...I think everybody could benefit from reading his material.

http://www.peele.net/lib/addexp.html

Glad to see other people know this man's work.

blanket statement of ten years is nonsense . i have cold turkey stopped heroin after a year and a half every day IV use more than once .
i have quit alcohol after fifteen consecutive years of daily heavy use .

as soon as sleep patterns returned to close to normal - within a month or so - i was back on my game . that is with the ability to take pleasure from mental, physical and social activities .

longest substance free period thus far was seven years .

i am a fucking addict and will always have my monkey somewhere close by me but not always on my back.

The question is: "What is the monkey?" The very human desire to manipulate mood or consciousness? If so, monks have monkeys. And so does everyone else.

I was obviously talking about anhedonia, it takes at least a full decade to get back to before the drugs were ever used and have the dopamine working normally.

I think this depends on your drug of choice, and ten years seems pretty extreme.

 

[Legerity]

ok. it just seemed you hit the nail on the head with me. for me anyway, i want to go out and use a not so hardcore opiate, maybe lick a couple percs, just so i dont fear them anymore. I will NEVER allow myself to fall back into addiction. I have since turned my life around. I am back in college, i am losing weight and working out at the gym 4 to 5 days a week, eating ealthier, sleeping better, starting to garner trust back from my family inch by inch. I have too much good goin for me now to just become full out addict again. With that being said, i cannot live in fear of not being able to leave my home due to drugs being everywhere (they really are everywhere dude). i have mad up my mind to use once more. A friend had a few blues and i am gonna take one and have that be the end of it. If i feel hard fucking cravings the next day and cave and get another one, well rehab here i come. If i can fight it and not use again for an indefinite amount of time, for instance like not use for 5 months, then i know i am now strong enough to say 'fuck you' to my addiction and will no longer live in fear of relapse. This way i will know for sure how strong i am exactly. This may sound like an addicts excuse to get high, and it may be, but i will benefit from the experience. I cant be afraid to test myself ya know? at 23 years old, i still havent really figured myself out all the way.

I can understand not wanting to fear drugs, but be cautious in your decisions and honest about whether or not it's really that important for you to find out. The fact that something needs to be "tested out" implies uncertainty, so of course there is risk involved. I'm not saying it would necessarily create difficulties for you, but that is a possibility, and you seem to acknowledge that.

 

[panic in paradise]

ok. it just seemed you hit the nail on the head with me. for me anyway, i want to go out and use a not so hardcore opiate, maybe lick a couple percs, just so i dont fear them anymore. I will NEVER allow myself to fall back into addiction. I have since turned my life around. I am back in college, i am losing weight and working out at the gym 4 to 5 days a week, eating healthier, sleeping better, starting to garner trust back from my family inch by inch. I have too much good goin for me now to just become full out addict again. With that being said, i cannot live in fear of not being able to leave my home due to drugs being everywhere (they really are everywhere dude). i have mad up my mind to use once more. A friend had a few blues and i am gonna take one and have that be the end of it. If i feel hard fucking cravings the next day and cave and get another one, well rehab here i come. If i can fight it and not use again for an indefinite amount of time, for instance like not use for 5 months, then i know i am now strong enough to say 'fuck you' to my addiction and will no longer live in fear of relapse. This way i will know for sure how strong i am exactly. This may sound like an addicts excuse to get high, and it may be, but i will benefit from the experience. I cant be afraid to test myself ya know? at 23 years old, i still havent really figured myself out all the way.

fuck man, gotta do what you gotta do.
but this is giving into the fear, maybe it wont be a bad experience... maybe what you hope doesnt happen will.

addiction is insanity, you cannot debate or reason with it. this is why.

please let us know how it goes...



please let this be a learning experience, not further experimentation.

 

[unsettled]

I personally don't know if there is an official answer.

I know for me it's not just drugs, it's a general compulsion towards instant gratification that has been a factor in my life for as long as I can remember.

I'd like to think that if you look deep enough within yourself and can see the reasons why you do things that you can overcome addiction forever.

I really don't have any answer, it's complicated. I was able to quit alcohol and weed easily once I got tired of them. Benzos I can see myself tapering off of. Opiates are a whole other game for me, they seem to have had me from day one. I think for most addicts it's a lifelong battle.

Just my opinion, I'm interested in reading some of the links posted above.

Okay, I just read that Stanton Peele article linked in an above post, I fell asleep half way through the article (due to a suboxone that was sitting under my tongue, not boredom) but I did read the whole thing, it just took a while.

That is the most intelligent and well thought out article on addiction I've ever read, it makes everything else look like propaganda. It also reinforces everything I've learned in therapy which is we are all dealing with life problems, when we learn to deal with them in a healthy way we live healthier more fulfilling lives.

Excellent article, thank you for posting it. EVERYONE should read it, even if you don't agree it will give you something to think about.

 

[Eye]

That voice cannot be trusted

ok. it just seemed you hit the nail on the head with me. for me anyway, i want to go out and use a not so hardcore opiate, maybe lick a couple percs, just so i dont fear them anymore. I will NEVER allow myself to fall back into addiction. I have since turned my life around. I am back in college, i am losing weight and working out at the gym 4 to 5 days a week, eating healthier, sleeping better, starting to garner trust back from my family inch by inch. I have too much good goin for me now to just become full out addict again. With that being said, i cannot live in fear of not being able to leave my home due to drugs being everywhere (they really are everywhere dude). i have mad up my mind to use once more. A friend had a few blues and i am gonna take one and have that be the end of it. If i feel hard fucking cravings the next day and cave and get another one, well rehab here i come. If i can fight it and not use again for an indefinite amount of time, for instance like not use for 5 months, then i know i am now strong enough to say 'fuck you' to my addiction and will no longer live in fear of relapse. This way i will know for sure how strong i am exactly. This may sound like an addicts excuse to get high, and it may be, but i will benefit from the experience. I cant be afraid to test myself ya know? at 23 years old, i still havent really figured myself out all the way.

I hear this a lot from people recovering from serious addictions. Testing yourself is a rationalization, in my opinion: making an irrational thought sound rational so you can justify using. We have those little voices in our heads that will try anything to get us to use again, or use more when that's done. And that voice gets louder and louder once you start using anything. You need a good long while to get that voice to shut up and let you make rational decisions. That voice? It's lying to you. Rational Recovery calls it The Addictive Voice, and it comes from emotion rather than reason.

The problem is that you can lose so much time being on such powerful addictive drugs. I cannot believe how much time disappeared on me. Please be very careful, whatever you decide.