Does 2cb lower the effects of Shrooms and LSD?

[austins312]

2CB works by being an agonist for the serotonin 5-HTC receptors. But it is only a partially agonist for the serotonin 5-HT2A receptors, however it is also a full antagonist of the serotonin 5HT2A receptors. LSD and magic mushrooms work by binding to the serotonin 5HT2A receptors. With these receptors blocked by an antagonist wouldn't 2CB lower the effects of magic mushrooms and LSD? Has anyone experienced this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2C-B

*no such links necessary and frankly this particular one is not really wanted, much more importantly: at PD we can find plenty of information in our own Big & Dandy 2C-B thread and it's opening post (OP)*

 

[IamMe90]

2c-b is not a full antagonist of 5ht2a receptors to my knowledge, that would make absolutely nil pharmacological sense. And no, 2c-b does not block the effects of psilocybin mushrooms and LSD.

edit: I read the wikipedia bit on that, and while it does say that, it doesn't make any sense to me. It DOESN'T block the effects of 5ht2a psychedelics, which you would think a full antagonist would, and it definitely exhibits effects consistent with 5th2a receptor agonism. I don't have the time to further investigate so hopefully someone else that is more knowledgeable can chime in.

 

[austins312]

2c-b is not a full antagonist of 5ht2a receptors to my knowledge, that would make absolutely nil pharmacological sense. And no, 2c-b does not block the effects of psilocybin mushrooms and LSD.

edit: I read the wikipedia bit on that, and while it does say that, it doesn't make any sense to me. It DOESN'T block the effects of 5ht2a psychedelics, which you would think a full antagonist would, and it definitely exhibits effects consistent with 5th2a receptor agonism. I don't have the time to further investigate so hopefully someone else that is more knowledgeable can chime in.

Thank you, I do not want anything to disrupt my shroom experiences.

 

[Solipsis]

I'll also provide the link to that thread:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/621254

Also, welcome to PD!

Please check our Beginner's FAQ and the Psychedelic Index, links are in my signature and in the main PD thread list screen they are blinking links at the top. The Index covers many many subjects and otherwise our search engines can often help you out. The FAQ is a bit of a how-to, helping you to navigate PD more quickly, it should save you a lot of time so it is recommended you browse through it.


The main thing we should be concerned about here is 5-HT2A receptors. 2C-B's effects at other receptors isn't really that relevant in this story and 5-HTC receptors don't exist as far as I'm aware.
5-HT2A receptors are thought to be the key to psychedelic effects, and indeed there are drugs that work almost entirely on them that are subjectively experienced as intensely psychedelic. So, if that's where the magic happens and all 2C-B, LSD, mushrooms and other psychedelics work on those same receptors then yes you can expect what is called cross-tolerance.
Tolerance means you get reduced effects from a dose that previously was effective, you can tolerate more. With cross-tolerance the same thing happens even though the drugs aren't the same.

Generally you can only trip about once a week otherwise you will get some kind of interference i.e. reduced effects from the action of some psychedelic in that week. The more alike 2 psychedelics seem to be, the stronger the cross-tolerance seems to be which makes sense if you think about it, right?

Check this thread on tolerance from LSD and mushrooms which has helpful information such as how long tolerance lasts on average and what this practically means for you: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=479297
Here is our thread on cross-tolerance: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=462373

FYI both could be found in the Index.

 

[sekio]

Even though 2cb may be an antagonist at 5-ht2a, its affinity is probably low enough that psilocin/LSD will take preference binding over it.

 

[Solipsis]

Apologies, I thought I knew my classics well enough but this is some weird shit I have to take another look at.

5-HT2C, if I remember correctly, is thought to be associated with the calming - even anxiolytic - feeling of 2C-C. Even though 2C-B may be milder in effect than classical psychedelics, high doses can still be typically psychedelic but if we look more closely... how typically exactly?

Anyway now that I thought about it, it starts to make more sense: 2C-B is called a low efficacy partial agonist to the point that it could be called an antagonist. This sounds confusing indeed but from my understanding it means it binds to the receptor (agonists do this as well as antagonists) but after binding it causes very little activation of that receptor. Activation of a receptor, 'turning it on', causes a whole chain of reactions.
Apparently 2C-B just binds to the 5-HT2A receptors but the activity associated with typical/classical psychedelia is lacking. But down-regulation (causing or constituting tolerance) comes from high affinity binding, doesn't it? Or high affinity combined with activation efficacy?

 

[Solipsis]

Austin, I'm inclined to move this over to ADD (advanced drug discussion), 5-HT2A antagonism as an antidogmatic model for psychedelic activity and the exact involvement of (phospho)inositide equilibrium/turnover and phospholipase A2 - which are so very often encountered in scientific articles but are apparently still a bit of a mystery as to what kind of activation paths for what receptor subtype causes what exactly.................