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Bupe Doctor wants me off suboxone fast...

zagor said:
But what is causing bile duct to be inflated and painful? They say it could be suboxone and want me to quit in 4 weeks.
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I'm curious, what correlation would there be between buprenorphine and your gallbladder?

Most people have deposits built up in their gallbladder, it doesn't become a problem until one makes its way into the common bile duct and gets stuck and prevents bile from leaving the gallbladder.

Do they have plans to take out your gallbladder and want you off the buprenorphine to do the surgery?
 
TheInvisibleStoner said:
I still don't understand, what does taking bupe have to do with your bile duct?

I would find a new doctor personally. If they think its because its binding you up, there are 100 other things you can try. Stool softeners, laxative (dont take for long), diet, or simply live off nutribullets for a week until you are shitting water.

Bupe does bind me up more than any other opiate as I mentioned, unlikely that flake of a doc would know, though.

I still say you are wrong regarding the opiates, though :p Bupe is an opiate. So how is bupe working? It would be physically impossible unless bupe has bound to your receptors forever. (not possible). In which case you have a 1 of a kind bupe. Half life = 20 years.

Jacking up your tolerance? Yes. Hanging onto the receptor for some weeks? Yes. Forever...impossible. When I came off it, withdrawaled for some days. Took some methadone and didn't feel shit. Took about a week and finally felt something. Unfortunately a massive dose of narcan came a week later so have really yet to stabilize. It does do something strange to you for sure. Wonder if thats the secret behind those implants. Drip an antagonist into this guy for some time. And even when it comes out you won't feel anything for a bit.

In any case, you have plenty subs. No need to torture yourself for no reason.
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Its not constipation. They suggest bupe is irritating my bile duct. My shrink is pissed that I use it cuz he wants to throw other chemicals at me. But not feeling other opioids is a real phenomena. Because when I stopped bupe in early 2018 and switched to very high doses of oxy for about 12 months. Nothing. Not a single buzz. IDK why bupe sometimes makes me a little less stressed though
 
Deru said:
I'm curious, what correlation would there be between buprenorphine and your gallbladder?

Most people have deposits built up in their gallbladder, it doesn't become a problem until one makes its way into the common bile duct and gets stuck and prevents bile from leaving the gallbladder.

Do they have plans to take out your gallbladder and want you off the buprenorphine to do the surgery?
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None. They think it irritates my bile duct. I don't think so. They do wanna remove my gallbladder because of a gallstone but that's nothing to do with bile duct inflammation.
 
zagor said:
Why do they stay on low dose bupe and how low do you think?
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Getting off opiates is a horrible experience. Even the milder ones. It's not so much that you feel horrible after a good amount of time put into combatting the withdrawal and "feeling normal again." There's just something long lasting about being finally free of opiate use that fucks with your head. You never really get your full endorphins back for about 5 months give or take.

*I know this is dangerous to tell people* but within a month of detox most people feel good again. They still complain about feeling "weird" though for quite a long time. During that weird time period the user might actually be more prone to relapsing than even the initial sickness upon sickness beginning detox two weeks. That's why being on bupe for almost forever helps people not relapse. They don't have to deal with the inevitable ahedonia and sense that something is missing from their lives. Bupe is a godsend for cravings actually. My one heroin addict space cadette friend who drank seed tea for years after the heroin euphoria died long ago is now on .025 milligrams of suboxone a day for what has been multiple years now. It can make a difference I think. I know no one wants to be on bupe for life but sometimes it's the only answer for the crippling cases of dependency. We want the users alive at least.
 
Yeah PAWS is a VERY dangerous time. Your tolerance is so low. Relapse could easily lead to an OD.

But still don't feel that is any reason to keep someone on maintenance. A normal person from the street with 0 tolerance can use once and die as well. So now we will just put the whole world on maintenance just so OD's are less?

Its silly.

I have OD'd a few times, and each one was my fault. I should not have been using in the 1st place. And if I did, I should of been more careful and less greedy. Very simple.

5 months is about right. I would even say 6, you should be cured. If not, there may be something underlying or you are simply not treating yourself correctly with nutrition and exercise. Any time I had good clean time, was an exercise nut. 20 mile bike ride, you will be feeling high, not kidding.

Perhaps some people just refuse to want to be clean, and they do need it. There are other complications of pain too. I know many people that will need it for life.

Subs are scary though since what if you need instant pain relief? And don't think putting an antagonist in you daily can be good. They work good in withdrawal, though.

Dunno, if someone is 7/8 months clean and still saying they are feeling weird, they need to be investigated. Something else is going on. If they can do it for 6 months, they have beaten opiates 100%
 
zagor said:
None. They think it irritates my bile duct.
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I’ve never heard of this, and minus one study done on 36 HCV-positive people done in 2000, I can’t find anything besides anecdotal evidence. It sounds like the bigger issue becomes when there is liver damage. I’d think a second opinion might be beneficial, sounds like a lot of unnecessary pain for something that may not even address the root cause.

Here’s one of the studies:

Dilated Bile Duct in Patients Receiving Narcotic Substitution​

 
Subs are scary though since what if you need instant pain relief?
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The medical staff can use fentanyl (or even something stronger like sufentanil) which is potent enough to out-compete the bupe at mu opioid receptors. Or they can use one of the many, many other tools to control pain. As OP knows, opioids alone can be woefully insufficient at blocking pain, even at crazy high doses, depending on several factors like genetics and the cause of said pain.

I also don't buy the "bupe irritating the bile duct"... one reference I found says: Unlike morphine, buprenorphine has little or no effect on pressure in biliary and pancreatic ducts.

It seems to me that the bile duct/gallstones are independent of any opioid use. I suspect you'll feel better after you have surgery to remove your gallbladder.
 
TheInvisibleStoner said:
Yeah PAWS is a VERY dangerous time. Your tolerance is so low. Relapse could easily lead to an OD.

But still don't feel that is any reason to keep someone on maintenance. A normal person from the street with 0 tolerance can use once and die as well. So now we will just put the whole world on maintenance just so OD's are less?

Its silly.

I have OD'd a few times, and each one was my fault. I should not have been using in the 1st place. And if I did, I should of been more careful and less greedy. Very simple.

5 months is about right. I would even say 6, you should be cured. If not, there may be something underlying or you are simply not treating yourself correctly with nutrition and exercise. Any time I had good clean time, was an exercise nut. 20 mile bike ride, you will be feeling high, not kidding.

Perhaps some people just refuse to want to be clean, and they do need it. There are other complications of pain too. I know many people that will need it for life.

Subs are scary though since what if you need instant pain relief? And don't think putting an antagonist in you daily can be good. They work good in withdrawal, though.

Dunno, if someone is 7/8 months clean and still saying they are feeling weird, they need to be investigated. Something else is going on. If they can do it for 6 months, they have beaten opiates 100%
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That is a great point. I'm not sure what people on sub maintenance for potentially ever would do for pain relief. I suppose the doctor would take them off it first like for some reason the OP is having insisted (but for different reasons we can not comprehend lol). Opiate addiction is beyond complicated and there's no easy answer. But I recognize the pros and cons of it and what you are saying.

As far as suboxone forever goes though--other than opiate induced brain fog which for me means memories don't come back to you as vividly--I don't think there are any negative side effects besides perhaps slightly lowered testosterone. But if they were going to use anyway that would be a side effect regardless. Doesn't methadone act in the same way as suboxone drawn out over the longest time? With a withdrawal notoriously god awful?
 
Well yeah, being on methadone for life would essentially be the same as suboxone for life. Replacement for life.

I would pick methadone without a doubt, though. Full agonist with some pain relief. If you need pain relief on top, can easily just up your dose or take another full agonist. There is fent as mentioned that will break through, but we all know at least in the states any time a doctor hears "addict, opiates, maintenance, pain" you will barely get an advil. Would take a serious condition plus a compassionate doctor to actually script something good.

As for withdrawals, they would both be the same. Both are extremely potent opiods and will have horrid withdrawals coming off a long term high dose. Someone taking 6mg of subs for years is going to face the same hell as someone taking 60mg of methadone for years. They will both be out of commission for a couple of months.

Quality of life like you said. Some indeed do need it for life. Most don't, but as long as you pay your doctor or clinic you can start at 18 and go to death.
 
According to this study opioids van indeed cause bile duct dilation. So that's been done to me by oxy because they found a scar in my bile duct in 2018. They first thought it was a cyst and bastards told me it has 30% chance of becoming cancerous. They even wanted to operate on it. But yeah according to this study many GI doctors call a bile dilation drug related if the patients has used it for long. Well if the drugs did cause it then it took me 2-3 years.

It tempting to try to go on methadone due to my mental illness but since I can't feel anything from full agonists maybe even methadone wouldn't make me feel better. And if it did I would be addicted forever. I think I am still going to wean off sub but veryyy slowly. Even if it takes years.
 
zagor said:
But yeah according to this study many GI doctors call a bile dilation drug related if the patients has used it for long.
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Could you post a link to the study you’re referencing? I’d be curious to read more.
 
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