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DOC dry volumetric dosing

H

Humble Bumble

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Joined
Apr 5, 2015
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152
Hi

I've the opportunity to get me 100mg of DOC powder and I might do it, or not. It would only last me next couple of lifetimes so it might be serious overkill.

But it made me wonder how I'd go about storing and dosing the stuff. First thought was to make a suspension in alcohol and keep that in the freezer, but now I wonder about DRY volumetric dosing.

I'm guessing I could add the DOC to 900mg of an inert powder and thoroughly mix that to get a 10:1 mix and dose that, but

a) would that be a good way to handle this chemical, storage- and dosing-wise?
b) what would be a good inert powdery substance? I'm guessing I'm looking for something that's not hygroscopic?


It's really more of a thought experiment I was thinking about while snoozing in bed this morning but I'm hoping someone can help me with this (or point out that there's already a big & dandy thread about dry volumetric dosing that I overlooked)
 
Storagewise it would be fine, but dose wise it can't be recommended due to hotspots of DOC maybe forming in the inert powder. For instance, if the DOC is heavier than the inert powder it will slowly make it's way to the bottom.

Anyway, it is possible to do, but you need to be aware of this downside to "dry volumetric dosing", and be sure to "mix it up" everytime before dosing.

Good inert powder for cutting could be creatine, which can be bought in most shops that sells proteine powder and stuff like that for people that work out. Another one is mannitol, but I don't really know much about that one.

Putting the DOC in alcohol, and stick that in the freezer works fine though, I'd say.
 
Fagott said:
...hotspots of DOC... if the DOC is heavier than the inert powder it will slowly make it's way to the bottom.
Click to expand...

Thanks! that was the kind of information I was looking for, I hadn't realized that (I assumed that once it's mixed, the DOC would behave and stay put in the mix.)
 
Dissolve it in water, seriously.. It's much easier and much more reliable.
What's your reason for preferring a dry mixture?

I'm not sure about the physical properties of DOC but having it as a dry mixture makes it very liable for hot spots.
For example some chemicals have slight physical attractions to one another or are hygroscopic but both will easily cause clumps to form.
 
a solution in water + ethanol (or another alcohol like benzyl alcohol, for conservation) won't likely degrade in decades. phenethylamines and amphetamines are considered to be extremely stable.

there are only downsides to cutting the drug with inert powder, as others have mentioned. it is also a lot more hassle, because with liquid measuring, you can just use an appropriate syringe instead of having to get the scale every time.

ps: you should also weigh out the 100mg before dissolving it, it could be more than the vendor had advertised.
 
.:Holy::Toast:. said:
What's your reason for preferring a dry mixture?

I'm not sure about the physical properties of DOC but having it as a dry mixture makes it very liable for hot spots.
For example some chemicals have slight physical attractions to one another or are hygroscopic but both will easily cause clumps to form.
Click to expand...

Well as I said I was just entertaining the idea, wondering if it was a smart thing to do or not. It's obviously not according to your kind answers. If and when I need to find a way to store and dose such a large quantity of this substance (probs are I won't), I now know that liquid suspension is the way to go.

The more you know... lol

Holy toast & bagseed; you mention using water for a liquid, that should be destilled water right? And would you still have to shake the bottle before dosing to get an even concentration/ would the chemical sink to the bottom of the bottle?
 
^ depends on where you live and the quality of your tap water. where I live, water quality is incredible and no chlorine and other things are added, but if your tap water isn't good, use distilled / deionized water.
 
Yeah, pharmaceutical manufacturers who mix powders use specific binders and processes that ensure an even distribution, you can't guarantee even distribution by just mixing. DOC is extremely stable. What I do is store my DOC dry in the freezer, and weigh out 30mg at a time on my scale. I put that in 30mL of alcohol such as vodka and dose with a 1mL oral syringe that has .1mL markings so I have 100ug accuracy with only a slight margin of error due to the scale which is divided evenly in liquid so it's very slight. But honestly you could just make a solution of the whole 100mg and it would be fine. Stored in the refrigerator in a sealed bottle, that solution will last many years, I'm not sure that degradation is even a concern. My first 100mg lasted me a couple of years and I dissolved it all when I first got it, absolutely no potency loss at all was perceived.

The nice thing about liquid solution is that you CAN guarantee even distribution when something dissolves. And it won't ever settle unless you have a supersaturated solution (which would be very difficult to do with DOC, 1mg/mL is very far from saturation), so no need for shaking it or anything once it's dissolve completely.
 
Xorkoth said:
What I do is store my DOC dry in the freezer, and weigh out 30mg at a time on my scale. I put that in 30mL of alcohol such as vodka and dose with a 1mL oral syringe that has .1mL markings so I have 100ug accuracy with only a slight margin of error due to the scale which is divided evenly in liquid so it's very slight. But honestly you could just make a solution of the whole 100mg and it would be fine. Stored in the refrigerator in a sealed bottle, that solution will last many years, I'm not sure that degradation is even a concern. My first 100mg lasted me a couple of years and I dissolved it all when I first got it, absolutely no potency loss at all was perceived.

The nice thing about liquid solution is that you CAN guarantee even distribution when something dissolves. And it won't ever settle unless you have a supersaturated solution (which would be very difficult to do with DOC, 1mg/mL is very far from saturation), so no need for shaking it or anything once it's dissolve completely.
Click to expand...

Seriously, is that how simple it is for DOC ? I've never tried Volumetric dosing because I thought it would be more of a hassle. How would this go for 5MeO-aMT, and things like 2C-P and 5MeO-MiPT ?

Sorry for partly derailing but when I checked the volumetric dosing thread in the past it seemed not really for me, because of the ingredients/procedures used. This seems very straightforward and simple.

edit: would using white rum ( 37.5% ) change anything, regarding the procedure you described for DOC ?
 
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Tryptamines are less stable, so they'd degrade more easily in aqueous solution. but otherwise, xorkoth explains it good. if you have a 1ml syringe, you can measure out your dose in 0.1ml increments, if you have a concetration of 1mg/ml, each 0.1ml will contain 0.1mg of compound.

and yeah, using clean spirit (white rum / vodka / etc.) will work as well.
 
Would high proof such as everclear be even better?

And would it keep tryptamines fresh longer than storing in powder form??
 
I'm not sure whether everclear would be better or not. I used to use a mixture of 50% everclear, 50% distilled water. Now I usually just use vodka or something.

Achten said:
Seriously, is that how simple it is for DOC ? I've never tried Volumetric dosing because I thought it would be more of a hassle. How would this go for 5MeO-aMT, and things like 2C-P and 5MeO-MiPT ?

Sorry for partly derailing but when I checked the volumetric dosing thread in the past it seemed not really for me, because of the ingredients/procedures used. This seems very straightforward and simple.

edit: would using white rum ( 37.5% ) change anything, regarding the procedure you described for DOC ?
Click to expand...

Volumetric dosing is the same for any substance (not just drugs) that will dissolve in the liquid you're using... freebases won't dissolve in water so for those you need something else, or to convert them to a salt that is soluble in water (just add a bit of an acid to a freebase solution, even vinegar works). Any substance that dissolves becomes uniformly distributed and will stay that way unless the solution is super-saturated.

There's nothing tricky about it... measure out the amount of liquid you want and the amount of substance you want, and dissolve said substance in said liquid. Agitate/stir until it's dissolved completely. Make sure there is alcohol in a decent proportion to prevent microbial growth (hence suggestions to use liquor). At least 25% I'd say. Then use an oral syringe to measure out doses... if you have 1mg of substance for every mL of liquid, then 1mL = 1mg. You can also make different concentrations if you want but I always go for 1mg/mL because I only use liquid measurement with potent substances and it's very easy to measure finely at that concentration (giving me the ability to accurately take, say, 2.3mg of DOC should I want to get that specific). You can get a 1mL oral syringe for free if you ask at most pharmacies, they have many valid uses so I've never even gotten a weird look. You can also buy larger/nicer oral syringes at pharmacies for very cheap.

That's all you need for it.
 
Thanks !

I went ahead and tried it. Dissolved 10mg of DOC in 10ml of white rum. Since I was alone and am always extremely cautious when using a new ROA, I doses 160mcg with an insuline syringe bought at a pharmacie. It was definetly active :). Nothing psychedelic, bu felt like a very mild amphetamine undertone. Went out for drinks and dinner and had a very good time. I had the idea that alcohol didn't hit me as hard as usual.

Is there a way to know if one has the freebase or salt ?
And do freebases dissolve in alcohol ?
 
As vecktor said, a few years ago, regarding DOC freebase:

vecktor said:
you will never come across the freebase, period.

the freebase readily absorbs co2 from the air to make a carbonate salt it also slowly discolours and oxidises. there simply is no way that it is ever going to be made as a freebase as a final product form. If it is DOC it is going to be a salt.

5mg/ml is a low concentration and my guess is that small an amount will dissolve completely in pretty much any normal grade of ethanol (though possibly not absolute ethanol).

The ether is there in Shulgin description to reduce the solubility of the salt in the same way as acetone is used in other examples.

the solubility or not of the material in alcohol is a very poor way of determining what you have.
Click to expand...
 
Bumping this thread as I'll be getting myself ~20mg of DOC and need a way to dose/store it. Liquid volumetric is obviously the way to go - is isopropyl alcohol suitable? For some reason I get the feeling it's not, as this isn't really something I know much about heh

EDIT: it's fine if it's not; I've also got like 20x 10ml sterile water vials handy, and I can use the IPA to wash out an empty glass AAS vial to store :)
 
No, isopropyl is no good for human consumption. I tend to use regular spirit alcohol - gin, vodka etc. - as (a) it's safe to drink, (b) stuff tends to be more soluble in it than water alone and (c) it keeps the solution sterile. The only downside is that alcohol evaporates somewhat faster than water so you have to be careful about keeping your vials or whatever covered. I'm pretty sure DOC is plenty soluble in water alone, but if your solution is going to be hanging around for a while, it'd be best to have at least 10% or so ethanol for the sake of sterility.

EDIT: I just had a thought regarding the OP, though it's probably not that relevant unless you have a fair bit of material. Could ion exchange resin be used as a substrate to effectively bulk up DOC in an evenly distributed manner (i.e. w/o hotspots)? I'm sure I've read that pharmaceutical companies use it for similar reasons - namely to make the filling of gelcaps easier and more reliable - and to make extended/slow release formulations.
 
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Sorry, my thoughts with using IPA would be to measure the dose, and evap before consumption.

Fair call though, I'll just get some high proof vodka or something. Only need like 10ml anyway heh
 
trozzle said:
Sorry, my thoughts with using IPA would be to measure the dose, and evap before consumption.
Click to expand...

Would that leave any nasties though after evaporation? I'm asking because I've used IPA to make changa a couple of times- much prefer acetone though anyway.
 
I wouldn't at all expect any concerns. Would dissolve at 1mg/ml, so when measuring out a dose (let's assume 2.5mg) there should be no more than 2.5ml of IPA to begin with - which itself is nowhere near toxic levels. Evaporation should see pretty much the entirety of that removed anyway :)
 
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