intensecycle
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 110
TR DOC #3
Substance: DOC
Dosage: 4 mg dissolved in ethanol/water solution taken on empty stomach
Personal data Male, 85kg, 178 cm, 27 years old , athletic, exercise daily, but some back pains and undiagnosed ADHD and cyclothymic (slightly bipolar)
Medications and addictions: none except vitamins.
Set & Setting: Trekking over winter countryside all day long with non-using friends
Rating: 8/10
Previous experiences:
* 2C-C (x2)
* 2C-D (x1)
* 4-ACO-DMT (x1)
* 4-HO-MET (x1)
* 5-APB (x1)
* Alprazolam (x2)
* Amphetamine (x1)
* DOC (x2)
* DOI (x1)
* Dichloropane (x2)
* Etizolam (x3)
* Kratom (x4)
* Methoxetamine (x4)
* Methylone (x3)
* Modafinil (1 week)
* Shrooms (x3)
* Salvia (x1)
* Weed and hash (many times)
Substance appearance: white powder
Closest previous trip: Methylone and weed two weeks before
Tolerance: None
Sensitivity: Low
Addiction potential: Very low
Main effects: slight colors enhancement, euphoria and dysphoria, CEV, consciousness vanishing, interest to surroundings, complex thoughts and reflection on life
Side effects: Anxiety, thoughts of unsolved problems, time passes too quickly
After effects: afterglow with elevated mood, enhanced senses and interest to surroundings, chatty mood
Shulgin scale: ***
T 00:00
I took 4 mg DOC dissolved in water/ethanol solution on empty stomach, like I always do. Before that, I took some green tea extract and vitamins. This was at 7.00 in the morning.
T 01:00
I left home and we used a transport to head to the point where we have started our trekking/hiking. It was nice sunny day, but a bit cold in the morning, something like -15 C. Later it rose to well above -10 C, maybe -6C.
T +02:00
Our hike started somewhere around this point. At this time, I already felt quite strong effects, like slight colored CEVs in form of colored organic tenctales/fantail, or even multiple fantails, and some of them had faces in them. They were not scary, and colors were quite enjoyable, although usual: reds, greens, blues, and violets. Again, as in my previous trips, it was really funny these visuals were so archetypical.
My friend Panda took 2mg of DOC at this time (it was first time for him). Our fellow hikers did not know we used psychedelic substances, but maybe suspected (see below). Panda later told me, that he mostly felt stimulation, and strong nausea on come-up, but almost not perception changes. But he is not very good at listening to own subtle feelings.
When we started moving, it was maybe too cold for me, but after some time (20-30 mins) moving I warmed up and after that had no problems with this.
We started to move offroad through trees and bushes, it was not very hard, because I felt strong stimulation.
T +03:00
It was peak time. I lasted like a long time for me in some sense, but in other sense, passed quite quickly, because I haven’t noticed a lot of surroundings, like I usually try to do. It was not pleasant, because it looks like time passed but you haven't been involved in what is happening around you, but struggle with yourself a little bit.
It was pretty hard for me to speak and make chats with fellow hikers, but possible. I could not grasp even easy associations and metaphors. I also had some unpleasant anxiety (I did not had this in previous trip with 3mg), and thoughts about if I should continue to use psychedelics, how often and in what quantity. Also, I thought about what I do in my daily life, esp. previous week, when I somewhat wasted a lot of time reading online forums (like this one ;-)
Sometimes, my consciousness was “flowing”. I don’t know proper words to explain it, but it feels like your mind in unstable, it disrupts. Not completely, like it can be on tryptamines, but like water in mountain river, where is still intact after passing rapids.
I understood well that I’m in altered state, but it did not help me stop wondering, if my life is in order, nice and proper. Maybe, this was useful, because we take psychedelics in part to have this new perspective. (like Shulgin wrote "Let it (2C-E) rest as being a difficult and worthwhile material.”), Well, I had this new perspective, this is for sure. But during experiencing it, it caused anxiety, manageable, but noticeable.
We climbed a stopped freight train and started to walk over railroad cars filled with coal. Usually, when you do something, you plan it and have some reservations/fears/thoughts about planned action. Under influence of DOC, my fear of immediate actions was pretty much lost. I did not care, if climbing train is lawful, dangerous, etc. I think I could have jumped the gap between train cars, not taking into account how wide it is, but luckily I heard my friends discussing it is too wide and sides are too icy and slippery, so I stopped.
But climbing the train was very easy overall, I did this sometimes using only one hand, thanks to stimulation properties of DOC (But note, I’m pretty fit physically).
Faces of my companion hikers were very impressive and somewhat out of proportion, esp. people with glasses, but did not look ugly. I often find people’s faces unattractive and full of defects in last months, maybe in part because of excessive psychedelic use. Also, I feel like my usual mood swings have increased, so this may come as a warning to those who want to listen.
Overall, hiking experience, although easier thanks to DOC stimulation, was somewhat like “reality in hard mode” quote I like very much (I found it on forums). This means that all around me was to some extent surreal and fantasy-like, although with no direct associations to witches/ogres etc, like I had on 4-HO-MET. Sometimes I felt very strange, sometimes more normal, just “slow”.
I also was able to use my smartphone, but had problems sometimes, when it did not made photos/videos, I was not able to find cause until many hours later, when DOC effect become less prominent.
T +05:00
I felt like peak starting to fade, conversations become more meaningful, but moved to psychedelic use, which maybe was not wisest thing to do. I couldn’t help it, though, because had no fear at this point, and also found that one of fellow hikers used many different substances in his past. We found that many people that appear casual, actually used at least LSD, sometimes even more bad rep drugs like coke. You may find them but hinting drug culture movies/books/persons, mind expanding, physical prowess on amphs, etc
T +07:00
Our journey started to come to an end, DOC action, while diminished greatly, was still going. I become almost normal-acting, but my hearing/smell and interest in surroundings were still very strong. We carefully and quietly went through gypsy settlement, looking how they extend their existing houses in funny manner, adding a pile on pile of bricks to existing building. I touched walls, liking their textures, and my mates were wondered if I never seen wall materials before, otherwise why I touch them?
Me and Panda parted ways with fellow hikers and headed home. It was few km more, but it still was easy. During it we discussed if it is a good idea to involve more people into psychedelic scene, or not. I like to provoke people and shatter their views of what is normal, change their life in a ways. But this time DOC experience was so strong, I started to think that Panda is right, and we should not introduce mind-altering substances to new people. Maybe, people who used them already are ok, but not new people: let them live in oblivious peace with alcohol.
We argued about if life on common folk in general is happy enough, and if not, will mind-expanding experience help them to cope with depression,anxiety and other problems in general life. Maybe, better solutions are therapy and medications? I am not sure. But I strongly believe that if one want psychedelic experience, if one read what to expect, then I will not prevent it, and maybe even help.
During this trip, I remembered how strange and alien my previous DOI experience was, and had some parallels with this DOC trip. I mean moments when you understand that consciousness is just thin film floating on the surface of mind/brain, it is really unstable and changes often in unpredictable ways. What is “real” you – when you are at peace, calm and relaxed, when you are anxious and full of hatred / guilt/ pity / offence? Or something in between? I still don't have answer, but obviously I hope that real me is gentle, forgiving and peaceful one.
Panda told me, that he even don't understand what is “normal” state of his mind and what are “normal” perceptions – when he is under substance influence, or when he is sober. This is typical for him, because he is always unsure and very indecisive person.
I guess, as Timothy Leary says, “Don't take LSD unless you are very well prepared, unless you are specifically prepared to go out of your mind. And don't take it unless you are ready to have your perspective on yourself and your life radically changed, because you're gonna be a different person, and you should be ready to face this possibility.”
I found this is true in very strict and literal sense during last half a year.
When we got back home, I was uncertain what to do. I took a shower, and while doing this, I felt like my mind is rewinding fast forward, many thoughts and uneasy feelings. I understood at that moment, why my buddy Coyote warned against tripping alone on strong long-acting psychs like LSD (and DOC).
But soon I went out, and we decided that maybe we can go to a movie. We was not able to find movie in theater schedule we like, so we just watched “Life in a day” on LCD from youtube instead. We liked it to some extent, sound and music were sounding nice, and I could only imagine how nice it could have been during earlier stages of trip. This is movie directed by Ridley Scott, where people from all over the world filmed themselves and sent it to him, and he only made editing and other post-production. BTW, I correctly guessed that music was written by Matthew Herbert, because he has easily recognized style of making easy listening music from such casual life things noises like glasses, toothbrushes, chairs, etc.
T +15:00
Around this time I become really sleepy, although still felt some stimulation.
T +19:00
I took 3mg melatonin (sleep aid) pill, and was able to sleep, although not at once, and had to struggle with still bubbling ideas in my mind.
Next day I was a little tired mentally, albeit not physically, because I managed to go intense skiing. Next week was calm, retrospectic and relaxing, with no urge to indulge into more intense experiences, psychedelic or otherwise.
Summary
I still feel like this substance has potential, but now I understand why people are reluctant to take higher doses of strong psychs very often. Till this moment I never experienced such strong and complex emotions about my life mixed with something like anxiety. It was manageable overall, but I doubt higher dosage would be this easy. Nevertheless, I intend to take 5mg sometime in the future, but I have doubts now if trekking setting is fit for this. I am a little disappointed with lack of really strong CEVs and OEVs, but maybe in different setting they will manifest themselves stronger. I can't imagine taking DOC very often, though.
What I liked no doubt is later stages of trip, when even simplest things you see are interesting, music and sound are great, conversations are easier and nicer. This also can be achieved by lower dosage (3mg previous time), but it feels not quite the same as later stages of higher dosage.
Also, I understood why people sometimes call phenethylamines “inhuman” and “alien”. Tryptamines, no matter how weird, are still warmer, full of emotions etc. But phens (although my experience is limited) seem to be more serious and overall stronger, even if their mindfuck is less. I know my opinion could change in the future, but now it is like this.
Overall, I consider this experience worthwhile, but a bit darker and harder, then all my previous psychedelic experiments.
Substance: DOC
Dosage: 4 mg dissolved in ethanol/water solution taken on empty stomach
Personal data Male, 85kg, 178 cm, 27 years old , athletic, exercise daily, but some back pains and undiagnosed ADHD and cyclothymic (slightly bipolar)
Medications and addictions: none except vitamins.
Set & Setting: Trekking over winter countryside all day long with non-using friends
Rating: 8/10
Previous experiences:
* 2C-C (x2)
* 2C-D (x1)
* 4-ACO-DMT (x1)
* 4-HO-MET (x1)
* 5-APB (x1)
* Alprazolam (x2)
* Amphetamine (x1)
* DOC (x2)
* DOI (x1)
* Dichloropane (x2)
* Etizolam (x3)
* Kratom (x4)
* Methoxetamine (x4)
* Methylone (x3)
* Modafinil (1 week)
* Shrooms (x3)
* Salvia (x1)
* Weed and hash (many times)
Substance appearance: white powder
Closest previous trip: Methylone and weed two weeks before
Tolerance: None
Sensitivity: Low
Addiction potential: Very low
Main effects: slight colors enhancement, euphoria and dysphoria, CEV, consciousness vanishing, interest to surroundings, complex thoughts and reflection on life
Side effects: Anxiety, thoughts of unsolved problems, time passes too quickly
After effects: afterglow with elevated mood, enhanced senses and interest to surroundings, chatty mood
Shulgin scale: ***
T 00:00
I took 4 mg DOC dissolved in water/ethanol solution on empty stomach, like I always do. Before that, I took some green tea extract and vitamins. This was at 7.00 in the morning.
T 01:00
I left home and we used a transport to head to the point where we have started our trekking/hiking. It was nice sunny day, but a bit cold in the morning, something like -15 C. Later it rose to well above -10 C, maybe -6C.
T +02:00
Our hike started somewhere around this point. At this time, I already felt quite strong effects, like slight colored CEVs in form of colored organic tenctales/fantail, or even multiple fantails, and some of them had faces in them. They were not scary, and colors were quite enjoyable, although usual: reds, greens, blues, and violets. Again, as in my previous trips, it was really funny these visuals were so archetypical.
My friend Panda took 2mg of DOC at this time (it was first time for him). Our fellow hikers did not know we used psychedelic substances, but maybe suspected (see below). Panda later told me, that he mostly felt stimulation, and strong nausea on come-up, but almost not perception changes. But he is not very good at listening to own subtle feelings.
When we started moving, it was maybe too cold for me, but after some time (20-30 mins) moving I warmed up and after that had no problems with this.
We started to move offroad through trees and bushes, it was not very hard, because I felt strong stimulation.
T +03:00
It was peak time. I lasted like a long time for me in some sense, but in other sense, passed quite quickly, because I haven’t noticed a lot of surroundings, like I usually try to do. It was not pleasant, because it looks like time passed but you haven't been involved in what is happening around you, but struggle with yourself a little bit.
It was pretty hard for me to speak and make chats with fellow hikers, but possible. I could not grasp even easy associations and metaphors. I also had some unpleasant anxiety (I did not had this in previous trip with 3mg), and thoughts about if I should continue to use psychedelics, how often and in what quantity. Also, I thought about what I do in my daily life, esp. previous week, when I somewhat wasted a lot of time reading online forums (like this one ;-)
Sometimes, my consciousness was “flowing”. I don’t know proper words to explain it, but it feels like your mind in unstable, it disrupts. Not completely, like it can be on tryptamines, but like water in mountain river, where is still intact after passing rapids.
I understood well that I’m in altered state, but it did not help me stop wondering, if my life is in order, nice and proper. Maybe, this was useful, because we take psychedelics in part to have this new perspective. (like Shulgin wrote "Let it (2C-E) rest as being a difficult and worthwhile material.”), Well, I had this new perspective, this is for sure. But during experiencing it, it caused anxiety, manageable, but noticeable.
We climbed a stopped freight train and started to walk over railroad cars filled with coal. Usually, when you do something, you plan it and have some reservations/fears/thoughts about planned action. Under influence of DOC, my fear of immediate actions was pretty much lost. I did not care, if climbing train is lawful, dangerous, etc. I think I could have jumped the gap between train cars, not taking into account how wide it is, but luckily I heard my friends discussing it is too wide and sides are too icy and slippery, so I stopped.
But climbing the train was very easy overall, I did this sometimes using only one hand, thanks to stimulation properties of DOC (But note, I’m pretty fit physically).
Faces of my companion hikers were very impressive and somewhat out of proportion, esp. people with glasses, but did not look ugly. I often find people’s faces unattractive and full of defects in last months, maybe in part because of excessive psychedelic use. Also, I feel like my usual mood swings have increased, so this may come as a warning to those who want to listen.
Overall, hiking experience, although easier thanks to DOC stimulation, was somewhat like “reality in hard mode” quote I like very much (I found it on forums). This means that all around me was to some extent surreal and fantasy-like, although with no direct associations to witches/ogres etc, like I had on 4-HO-MET. Sometimes I felt very strange, sometimes more normal, just “slow”.
I also was able to use my smartphone, but had problems sometimes, when it did not made photos/videos, I was not able to find cause until many hours later, when DOC effect become less prominent.
T +05:00
I felt like peak starting to fade, conversations become more meaningful, but moved to psychedelic use, which maybe was not wisest thing to do. I couldn’t help it, though, because had no fear at this point, and also found that one of fellow hikers used many different substances in his past. We found that many people that appear casual, actually used at least LSD, sometimes even more bad rep drugs like coke. You may find them but hinting drug culture movies/books/persons, mind expanding, physical prowess on amphs, etc
T +07:00
Our journey started to come to an end, DOC action, while diminished greatly, was still going. I become almost normal-acting, but my hearing/smell and interest in surroundings were still very strong. We carefully and quietly went through gypsy settlement, looking how they extend their existing houses in funny manner, adding a pile on pile of bricks to existing building. I touched walls, liking their textures, and my mates were wondered if I never seen wall materials before, otherwise why I touch them?
Me and Panda parted ways with fellow hikers and headed home. It was few km more, but it still was easy. During it we discussed if it is a good idea to involve more people into psychedelic scene, or not. I like to provoke people and shatter their views of what is normal, change their life in a ways. But this time DOC experience was so strong, I started to think that Panda is right, and we should not introduce mind-altering substances to new people. Maybe, people who used them already are ok, but not new people: let them live in oblivious peace with alcohol.
We argued about if life on common folk in general is happy enough, and if not, will mind-expanding experience help them to cope with depression,anxiety and other problems in general life. Maybe, better solutions are therapy and medications? I am not sure. But I strongly believe that if one want psychedelic experience, if one read what to expect, then I will not prevent it, and maybe even help.
During this trip, I remembered how strange and alien my previous DOI experience was, and had some parallels with this DOC trip. I mean moments when you understand that consciousness is just thin film floating on the surface of mind/brain, it is really unstable and changes often in unpredictable ways. What is “real” you – when you are at peace, calm and relaxed, when you are anxious and full of hatred / guilt/ pity / offence? Or something in between? I still don't have answer, but obviously I hope that real me is gentle, forgiving and peaceful one.
Panda told me, that he even don't understand what is “normal” state of his mind and what are “normal” perceptions – when he is under substance influence, or when he is sober. This is typical for him, because he is always unsure and very indecisive person.
I guess, as Timothy Leary says, “Don't take LSD unless you are very well prepared, unless you are specifically prepared to go out of your mind. And don't take it unless you are ready to have your perspective on yourself and your life radically changed, because you're gonna be a different person, and you should be ready to face this possibility.”
I found this is true in very strict and literal sense during last half a year.
When we got back home, I was uncertain what to do. I took a shower, and while doing this, I felt like my mind is rewinding fast forward, many thoughts and uneasy feelings. I understood at that moment, why my buddy Coyote warned against tripping alone on strong long-acting psychs like LSD (and DOC).
But soon I went out, and we decided that maybe we can go to a movie. We was not able to find movie in theater schedule we like, so we just watched “Life in a day” on LCD from youtube instead. We liked it to some extent, sound and music were sounding nice, and I could only imagine how nice it could have been during earlier stages of trip. This is movie directed by Ridley Scott, where people from all over the world filmed themselves and sent it to him, and he only made editing and other post-production. BTW, I correctly guessed that music was written by Matthew Herbert, because he has easily recognized style of making easy listening music from such casual life things noises like glasses, toothbrushes, chairs, etc.
T +15:00
Around this time I become really sleepy, although still felt some stimulation.
T +19:00
I took 3mg melatonin (sleep aid) pill, and was able to sleep, although not at once, and had to struggle with still bubbling ideas in my mind.
Next day I was a little tired mentally, albeit not physically, because I managed to go intense skiing. Next week was calm, retrospectic and relaxing, with no urge to indulge into more intense experiences, psychedelic or otherwise.
Summary
I still feel like this substance has potential, but now I understand why people are reluctant to take higher doses of strong psychs very often. Till this moment I never experienced such strong and complex emotions about my life mixed with something like anxiety. It was manageable overall, but I doubt higher dosage would be this easy. Nevertheless, I intend to take 5mg sometime in the future, but I have doubts now if trekking setting is fit for this. I am a little disappointed with lack of really strong CEVs and OEVs, but maybe in different setting they will manifest themselves stronger. I can't imagine taking DOC very often, though.
What I liked no doubt is later stages of trip, when even simplest things you see are interesting, music and sound are great, conversations are easier and nicer. This also can be achieved by lower dosage (3mg previous time), but it feels not quite the same as later stages of higher dosage.
Also, I understood why people sometimes call phenethylamines “inhuman” and “alien”. Tryptamines, no matter how weird, are still warmer, full of emotions etc. But phens (although my experience is limited) seem to be more serious and overall stronger, even if their mindfuck is less. I know my opinion could change in the future, but now it is like this.
Overall, I consider this experience worthwhile, but a bit darker and harder, then all my previous psychedelic experiments.
