DeathIndustrial88
Bluelighter
Over the past year or two, I've gone on several hydrocodone binges. Not very long ones. Usually around 200mg, which I'll have gone within 3-4 days. Some times 5 if I really stretch them out.
And now I always taper my bupe down when I know I'm gonna do this & then I cease use of it completely during using the hydros. But I've noticed that I feel like I bounce back n forth from WD to feeling "ok" the entire time. I can take a nice dose of the hydros & even feel some sedation or effects from it, but I'm still yawning, watery eyes, sweats... It's almost not even worth bothering with. Maybe it's just because hydros are so boring to begin with? I use to find them alright 10 years ago, but now the effects are severely lacking & boring most of the time. Some times I feel like I have to take a tiny dose of buprenorphine on some days & then use the hydro. But then the bupe effects usually predominate anyway.
If even small doses of bupe occupy a high receptor % than a less potent opioid would, then would it not be theoretically possible to have WDs even while using a full agonist? Cause while a full agonist may activate receptors more in terms of actual activation, it's not going to occupy the same amount of receptors that bupe would normally occupy, if that makes sense? If I go from having 80% of my receptors covered in bupe, to 5% covered in hydrocodone, then wouldn't that mean less receptor activation over all?
I could not get pinned pupils from the hydros at all whatsoever either. Where as 2-4mg of bupe will have my pupils pinned like they're about to disappear for 24hrs straight.
Over a year ago, I used heroin & it completely held & staved off any "bupe WD's", but it's also a better & stronger opioid than shitty hydrocodone. But even then, I couldn't really catch a nod from the heroin like I use to just 10 years ago. And the bupe just barely stopped the withdrawal from heroin.
I feel like the less potent opioids have completely lost their magic after about 10 years of being on bupe, but that's even with giving myself time off the bupe to even try them. So I don't understand it, unless bupe's potency just completely wrecks all other opioids.
I've also tried tapentadol & strong kratom extracts over the past year or so & also found them to be severely lacking. And this is coming from an opioid connoisseur, so what did bupe do to me & my body that made opioids so boring all the sudden?
And yes I'm very versed on bupes blockade & antagonism, this is not that. I use to be able to take 1-2mg of subs back in the day & then use heroin later that same day & still felt the heroin. If anything the low dose bupe + the heroin just potentiated each other.
One could chalk it up "well maybe your body/brain just doesn't work with opioids anymore", except I still some times randomly get an enjoyable mild buzz from bupe.
I'm guessing once you're so use to really potent opioids then there's no real worth in bothering with anything with a potency lower than heroin at least. Even if you stop or take a break from the bupe to do it. And I can't help but wonder what long term partial agonist receptor saturation might be doing to my opioid receptors as well. Not to mention the kappa antagonism with bupe is unique, so stopping it & taking something that's a kappa agonist or doesn't effect kappa at all sounds like it could cause some "WD" like effects too.
Either way I'm very disappointed that hydrocodone barely does anything for me anymore since it's one of the only opioids I ever come across these days. That's not to say it isn't still slightly enjoyable, but I usually have to potentiate it with other things to make it more enjoyable. You would think full agonists are better than partials always, but I dunno at this point. The hydrocodone experience is usually just tiredness, constipation & very short duration. Can be a little relaxing, but there's none of the overpowering bliss & utter contentedness that I use to love opioids for. Where as bupe will actually get me stimulated, chatty, energetic, just like how all opioids use to make me, but with a very boring or non-existent euphoria in the background & none of the "everything is just right in the world" contentedness. After about 2hrs, bupe just makes me tired the rest of the day. Just can't win or get a proper opioid buzz anymore I guess.
At this point, I'm wondering if bupe is actually more "recreational" and "enjoyable" than hydrocodone, which seems weird since the latter is at least a full agonist.
Some times after a hydro or tramadol binge, taking bupe will actually get me buzzed again, rather than just stave off withdrawals. But obviously that "buzz" is gone by the next day.
So could it be possible that because bupe occupies way more receptors, where as full agonists typically don't (if they did, you'd probably be dead) that my body is now accustom to the higher occupancy? Meaning if I take a full agonist, It'll be lacking because all of those receptors usually covered by bupe will be empty?
And now I always taper my bupe down when I know I'm gonna do this & then I cease use of it completely during using the hydros. But I've noticed that I feel like I bounce back n forth from WD to feeling "ok" the entire time. I can take a nice dose of the hydros & even feel some sedation or effects from it, but I'm still yawning, watery eyes, sweats... It's almost not even worth bothering with. Maybe it's just because hydros are so boring to begin with? I use to find them alright 10 years ago, but now the effects are severely lacking & boring most of the time. Some times I feel like I have to take a tiny dose of buprenorphine on some days & then use the hydro. But then the bupe effects usually predominate anyway.
If even small doses of bupe occupy a high receptor % than a less potent opioid would, then would it not be theoretically possible to have WDs even while using a full agonist? Cause while a full agonist may activate receptors more in terms of actual activation, it's not going to occupy the same amount of receptors that bupe would normally occupy, if that makes sense? If I go from having 80% of my receptors covered in bupe, to 5% covered in hydrocodone, then wouldn't that mean less receptor activation over all?
I could not get pinned pupils from the hydros at all whatsoever either. Where as 2-4mg of bupe will have my pupils pinned like they're about to disappear for 24hrs straight.
Over a year ago, I used heroin & it completely held & staved off any "bupe WD's", but it's also a better & stronger opioid than shitty hydrocodone. But even then, I couldn't really catch a nod from the heroin like I use to just 10 years ago. And the bupe just barely stopped the withdrawal from heroin.
I feel like the less potent opioids have completely lost their magic after about 10 years of being on bupe, but that's even with giving myself time off the bupe to even try them. So I don't understand it, unless bupe's potency just completely wrecks all other opioids.
I've also tried tapentadol & strong kratom extracts over the past year or so & also found them to be severely lacking. And this is coming from an opioid connoisseur, so what did bupe do to me & my body that made opioids so boring all the sudden?
And yes I'm very versed on bupes blockade & antagonism, this is not that. I use to be able to take 1-2mg of subs back in the day & then use heroin later that same day & still felt the heroin. If anything the low dose bupe + the heroin just potentiated each other.
One could chalk it up "well maybe your body/brain just doesn't work with opioids anymore", except I still some times randomly get an enjoyable mild buzz from bupe.
I'm guessing once you're so use to really potent opioids then there's no real worth in bothering with anything with a potency lower than heroin at least. Even if you stop or take a break from the bupe to do it. And I can't help but wonder what long term partial agonist receptor saturation might be doing to my opioid receptors as well. Not to mention the kappa antagonism with bupe is unique, so stopping it & taking something that's a kappa agonist or doesn't effect kappa at all sounds like it could cause some "WD" like effects too.
Either way I'm very disappointed that hydrocodone barely does anything for me anymore since it's one of the only opioids I ever come across these days. That's not to say it isn't still slightly enjoyable, but I usually have to potentiate it with other things to make it more enjoyable. You would think full agonists are better than partials always, but I dunno at this point. The hydrocodone experience is usually just tiredness, constipation & very short duration. Can be a little relaxing, but there's none of the overpowering bliss & utter contentedness that I use to love opioids for. Where as bupe will actually get me stimulated, chatty, energetic, just like how all opioids use to make me, but with a very boring or non-existent euphoria in the background & none of the "everything is just right in the world" contentedness. After about 2hrs, bupe just makes me tired the rest of the day. Just can't win or get a proper opioid buzz anymore I guess.
At this point, I'm wondering if bupe is actually more "recreational" and "enjoyable" than hydrocodone, which seems weird since the latter is at least a full agonist.
Some times after a hydro or tramadol binge, taking bupe will actually get me buzzed again, rather than just stave off withdrawals. But obviously that "buzz" is gone by the next day.
So could it be possible that because bupe occupies way more receptors, where as full agonists typically don't (if they did, you'd probably be dead) that my body is now accustom to the higher occupancy? Meaning if I take a full agonist, It'll be lacking because all of those receptors usually covered by bupe will be empty?
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